who did Earl beat in his gambling days?

klockdoc

ughhhhhhhhhh
Silver Member
LOL @ giving a shortstop the breaks and a ball on the bar table. Never happening.

I'm a sucker(nowhere near a shortstop) and I'd take that game from anyone breathing air and for any amount they can post.

Well....I've seen Chris B give a good player, not a shortstop by any means, but someone you would rate a 6 or 7 through league play, the....

Breaks
the 5
the 6
the last 5
and the guy couldn't win. On a bar table.

They definitely have a gear that lesser players do not.
 

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well....I've seen Chris B give a good player, not a shortstop by any means, but someone you would rate a 6 or 7 through league play, the....

Breaks
the 5
the 6
the last 5
and the guy couldn't win. On a bar table.

They definitely have a gear that lesser players do not.

They don't get to use that gear till they get to the table. Getting the break and last five it would seem that any competent player could stay at least even with that kind of spot. They are certainly not going to get robbed.

I saw Buddy hall give the break and last five, (8 foot bar table) to a guy who could hardly play and the game was real tough. In fact at one point Hall was losing badly because the guy began safe breaking and going behind the rack with the cue ball. Hall said he would quit unless the guy broke the balls normally. If I remember right on the break they guy could only win on the 5 and 9, after the break it was the 5 thru 9.

Of course they have a gear that lesser players do not, that is why they are giving up the spot, but no matter who they are there are lots of games they can't win at.
 
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JAM

Railbird
Silver Member
I've got to know, Jam....is that one of your rare mistakes, or did Keith say the wrong "won"?:D

LOL! You got me. :eek:

I type what I hear, and that is, indeed, a boo-boo. Can't believe I let that go out. :eek:

Better here than on my job. :grin:
 

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm gonna go out on a teeny short stubby limb here and say this......

I have been in pool rooms, and worked in pool rooms for the last 30 years....before that I played in my basement! :) I don't think some of you realize how strong top flight players play, and the pressure that puts on you. To say..."I'll take that spot from a pro and crush him" makes me think back to how many times I have seen good players do just that and hand the $$$ to the Pro. Go offer those games to SVB and watch him sprint to the table and rack the balls and screw your cue together for you!

Awesome players that want to play, feel challenged, and are in gear are basically unbeatable in long action matches.....not just one tourny race to 7.

BTW...on the action topic, I have 2 pictures of people in my pool room...my teacher who reminds me to get in the box often.....and Mr. McCready who reminds me to never be a nit!

G.
 
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JAM

Railbird
Silver Member
...BTW...on the action topic, I have 2 pictures of people in my pool room...my teacher who reminds me to get in the box often.....and Mr. McCready who reminds me to never be a nit!

G.

Well, you do have excellent taste in pool photographs! :cool:

One thing about Keith that will always be true, he has never and will never be a nit. :grin-square:

There's a limit, however, to how much one should gamble, I think. You have your smart gamblers, which Earl Strickland would fall into that category. You have your opportunistic gamblers, which are the guys who want to play the so-called "pool champion" just to be playing a pool champion. Their desire to play is stronger than their desire to gamble. They're doing it for grins. Then you have your nits who wouldn't bet a nickel unless it was a lock. They don't want to gamble; they're looking to rob somebody.

That's my take on gambling. :p
 

Medalist

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One night at Felt Shane gave the 4 or 5 and the breaks to a real good player on a very tight GC1. He left with 5k when the sun came up.
 

Horsetrader

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, you do have excellent taste in pool photographs! :cool:

One thing about Keith that will always be true, he has never and will never be a nit. :grin-square:

There's a limit, however, to how much one should gamble, I think. You have your smart gamblers, which Earl Strickland would fall into that category. You have your opportunistic gamblers, which are the guys who want to play the so-called "pool champion" just to be playing a pool champion. Their desire to play is stronger than their desire to gamble. They're doing it for grins. Then you have your nits who wouldn't bet a nickel unless it was a lock. They don't want to gamble; they're looking to rob somebody.

That's my take on gambling. :p

I really hate Nits, even though I can't play, I've NEVER been a nit.
 

klockdoc

ughhhhhhhhhh
Silver Member
They don't get to use that gear till they get to the table. Getting the break and last five it would seem that any competent player could stay at least even with that kind of spot. They are certainly not going to get robbed.

I saw Buddy hall give the break and last five, (8 foot bar table) to a guy who could hardly play and the game was real tough. In fact at one point Hall was losing badly because the guy began safe breaking and going behind the rack with the cue ball. Hall said he would quit unless the guy broke the balls normally. If I remember right on the break they guy could only win on the 5 and 9, after the break it was the 5 thru 9.

Of course they have a gear that lesser players do not, that is why they are giving up the spot, but no matter who they are there are lots of games they can't win at.

Well, I play about 2 balls better than the guy that got the spot and I wouldn't want that game against Chris!

Last 5 and 5-9 is two different games.
 

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, I play about 2 balls better than the guy that got the spot and I wouldn't want that game against Chris!

Last 5 and 5-9 is two different games.

You didn't read and understand my post. On the break the guy can only win on the 5 and 9 if they went in on the break. If any other money ball goes in he keeps shooting and the last five kick in as the spot at that point
.
There is no way you can give someone the last five and the break and every ball is wild on the break. the guy can win half a dozen games at a time just breaking. The guy had the option of spotting his money balls if it went in on the break as he keeps shooting.

Many time he didn't spot them because the spotted ball interfered with him running out. This by the way was around 1980 when Buddy was at the height of his powers. This was no nit game, the guy Buddy was playing was a big gambler and they were playing for like a $1000 a game.

I never knew this guys real name but if I remember right he was called MB or something like that and was from Tampa. It was not unusual for him to go off for 30 or 40 thousand. That is why he got such good games from players, he was well worth playing.
 

Horsetrader

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm gonna go out on a teeny short stubby limb here and say this......

I have been in pool rooms, and worked in pool rooms for the last 30 years....before that I played in my basement! :) I don't think some of you realize how strong top flight players play, and the pressure that puts on you. To say..."I'll take that spot from a pro and crush him" makes me think back to how many times I have seen good players do just that and hand the $$$ to the Pro. Go offer those games to SVB and watch him sprint to the table and rack the balls and screw your cue together for you!

Awesome players that want to play, feel challenged, and are in gear are basically unbeatable in long action matches.....not just one tourny race to 7.

BTW...on the action topic, I have 2 pictures of people in my pool room...my teacher who reminds me to get in the box often.....and Mr. McCready who reminds me to never be a nit!

G.

This person describes gambling with great players perfect. If you're not a pro, then match up with one and you'll be surprise what spot is fair. Fair meaning, fair to him and you. NOT a LOCK!

I knew a gambler in the late 70's who asked for the 5 break and 1st shot from Allen Hopkins. You don't butt in when people are matching up and talking about playing 10 thousand dollar sets. Especially in the 70's.

In private I asked the gambler (BJ) how can you loose with that kind of spot? He quickly chewed me out and asked me "have YOU ever played a pro player"? No, was my answer. He went on to say "well try it and SEE if the spot is unfair". I did ask Allen to play, after getting a line on me he said he would for 2 grand a set. I didn't have the money but I was willing to bet all I had. I'm no nit.

Anyway thanks for your post. I hope some people read it and try their best to understand it. Pro's are pro's and matching up with one is not easy.
 
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macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This person describes gambling with great players perfect. If you're not a pro, then match up with one and you'll be surprise what spot is fair. Fair meaning, fair to him and you. NOT a LOCK!

I knew a gambler in the late 70's who asked for the 5 break and 1st shot from Allen Hopkins. You don't butt in when people are matching up and talking about playing 10 thousand dollar sets. Especially in the 70's.

In private I asked the gambler (BJ) how can you loose with that kind of spot? He quickly chewed me out and asked me "have YOU ever played a pro player"? No, was my answer. He went on to say "well try it and SEE if the spot is unfair". I did ask Allen to play, after getting a line on me he said he would for 2 grand a set. I didn't have the money but I was willing to bet all I had. I'm no nit.

Anyway thanks for your post. I hope some people read it and try their best to understand it. Pro's are pro's and matching up with one is not easy.

It can be really sobering and a real reality check playing a top player. Hopkins played me straight pool 125 to 40. At that time I used to throw the balls out and could run off 40 or 50 balls any time and often a hundred or more. Well, the only games I won I had to run out. I lost every game that went even a few extra innings.

It was amazing how fast he would get to the 125 usually in no more then 3 or 4 innings and in between all I was ever looking at was a perfect safety. I don't think he ever actually missed a ball he tried to pocket all night.
 

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
This person describes gambling with great players perfect. If you're not a pro, then match up with one and you'll be surprise what spot is fair. Fair meaning, fair to him and you. NOT a LOCK!

I knew a gambler in the late 70's who asked for the 5 break and 1st shot from Allen Hopkins. You don't butt in when people are matching up and talking about playing 10 thousand dollar sets. Especially in the 70's.

In private I asked the gambler (BJ) how can you loose with that kind of spot? He quickly chewed me out and asked me "have YOU ever played a pro player"? No, was my answer. He went on to say "well try it and SEE if the spot is unfair". I did ask Allen to play, after getting a line on me he said he would for 2 grand a set. I didn't have the money but I was willing to bet all I had. I'm no nit.

Anyway thanks for your post. I hope some people read it and try their best to understand it. Pro's are pro's and matching up with one is not easy.

You can't discount how huge the break is in this kind of spot. If I'm getting the breaks and the 5, I'm liable to run 3 or 4 racks in a row. If I'm getting the breaks, my opponent can never run even 2 racks in a row, even if he's God himself. When I make a mistake, the absolute most they can do is win 1 game and then I'm back in the driver's seat. It does not matter how good they are.

When people say Pro Player XYZ gave a shortstop 5 balls and won, I don't have any trouble believing it. But if it's 4 balls and the break, there's no way that guy was a shortstop. Any shortstop could beat God with that spot.

-Andrew
 

Charlie Hustle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You can't discount how huge the break is in this kind of spot. If I'm getting the breaks and the 5, I'm liable to run 3 or 4 racks in a row. If I'm getting the breaks, my opponent can never run even 2 racks in a row, even if he's God himself. When I make a mistake, the absolute most they can do is win 1 game and then I'm back in the driver's seat. It does not matter how good they are.

When people say Pro Player XYZ gave a shortstop 5 balls and won, I don't have any trouble believing it. But if it's 4 balls and the break, there's no way that guy was a shortstop. Any shortstop could beat God with that spot.

-Andrew

Agreed 100%, especially on a bar box.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Earl and I played the first time when I was 18

I was there CJ at Rustys when Earl played Little AL and at that time Al was a great player prolly the best player in Dallas and i will never forget what AL said to me after he said I cant beat the guy he never missed a f-n ball f that sh-t

Yes, at that time they called him "Lil Earl' and he was on a shotmaking terror across Texas. That's when I first started going to DALLAS when I was 16....I had just played "St. Louie" Louie at Grand and Gravois in St. Louis a weeks prior.

Earl and I played the first time when I was 18, he beat me in a Pro mini tournament in Chicago, although I won the National High School Championships that year. We've played many, many big matches since then, but he wasn't gambling when I hit my prime (because of a contract with a cue co.).
 

liakos

Banned
Yes, at that time they called him "Lil Earl' and he was on a shotmaking terror across Texas. That's when I first started going to DALLAS when I was 16....I had just played "St. Louie" Louie at Grand and Gravois in St. Louis a weeks prior.

Earl and I played the first time when I was 18, he beat me in a Pro mini tournament in Chicago, although I won the National High School Championships that year. We've played many, many big matches since then, but he wasn't gambling when I hit my prime (because of a contract with a cue co.).

Because of a cue contract?? I thought he went on his not to gamble?!?! Did the cue company specifically say "NO GAMBLE"? If so, I wonder what kind of arrangement Shane has:)?
 

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This person describes gambling with great players perfect. If you're not a pro, then match up with one and you'll be surprise what spot is fair. Fair meaning, fair to him and you. NOT a LOCK!

I knew a gambler in the late 70's who asked for the 5 break and 1st shot from Allen Hopkins. You don't butt in when people are matching up and talking about playing 10 thousand dollar sets. Especially in the 70's.

In private I asked the gambler (BJ) how can you loose with that kind of spot? He quickly chewed me out and asked me "have YOU ever played a pro player"? No, was my answer. He went on to say "well try it and SEE if the spot is unfair". I did ask Allen to play, after getting a line on me he said he would for 2 grand a set. I didn't have the money but I was willing to bet all I had. I'm no nit.


Anyway thanks for your post. I hope some people read it and try their best to understand it. Pro's are pro's and matching up with one is not easy.


thanx for the kind words! I have had the pleasure of sitting (drinking) and bs'ing with Allen many times. He has the inate ability to clock a players speed with a glance, AND remember EVERY match he ever played!:) his stories are the best!

here is a pic of me n Allen at my buddies pool room.....maybe having a beer or 12!

G.
 

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klockdoc

ughhhhhhhhhh
Silver Member
You didn't read and understand my post. On the break the guy can only win on the 5 and 9 if they went in on the break. If any other money ball goes in he keeps shooting and the last five kick in as the spot at that point
.
There is no way you can give someone the last five and the break and every ball is wild on the break. the guy can win half a dozen games at a time just breaking. The guy had the option of spotting his money balls if it went in on the break as he keeps shooting.

Many time he didn't spot them because the spotted ball interfered with him running out. This by the way was around 1980 when Buddy was at the height of his powers. This was no nit game, the guy Buddy was playing was a big gambler and they were playing for like a $1000 a game.

I never knew this guys real name but if I remember right he was called MB or something like that and was from Tampa. It was not unusual for him to go off for 30 or 40 thousand. That is why he got such good games from players, he was well worth playing.

I read your post. You said they played with the break and last 5.

At the end of the post, you stated that after the break, he could win with the 5-9. That is not last 5. If he made the 7 and 8 on the break, the last 5 would be 3, 4, 5, 6, and 9.

Maybe you mean he got the 5 out, but only the 5 or 9 counted on the break.

These guys numbers per game and match were a little bit more than what Buddy played for. Of, course, your right.....that's why they get these outrageous spots. They have a lot to win!
 
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Dagwoodz

the dude abides...
Silver Member
I had the good fortune to meet Boston Shorty before he passed on at a tourney in Branford, CT back in '97. When he wasn't at the table playing, he was telling stories to a crowd of people as was Allen Hopkins, Larry Lisciotti, Mike LeBron, and Neptune Joe Frady. It was the first time I had been around professionals, and at only 20 years old and new to the game I was pretty awestruck.

The one thing about the culture of this game that has kept me hooked for so long are the story tellers that could be found in most pool halls. No where else could one find the number of characters in one place than at a pool hall. It seems the pool hall nurtured the art of story telling. Unfortunately, it seems that art is slowly dying out.

Back on topic, never got the chance to watch Earl gamble, but watched Tony Watson walk into Chicago Billiards in New Haven, CT about a year after the Branford tourney, when it was the hot spot and he offered the house the 7 out for as much as they could bet. I was told that when he had his mixture right he was the closest thing to Earl in his day. Those in the house were Lisciotti, Ginky, Frady, Basavich, Billy the kid Lanna... No one would play... Not because they didn't have the $$... The proprietor Ralph was loaded and would stake any of then for whatever if they asked. They knew that any game they would be getting into would be a bad game.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 
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klockdoc

ughhhhhhhhhh
Silver Member
I had the good fortune to meet Boston Shorty before he passed on at a tourney in Branford, CT back in '97. When he wasn't at the table playing, he was telling stories to a crowd of people as was Allen Hopkins, Larry Lisciotti, Mike LeBron, and Neptune Joe Frady. It was the first time I had been around professionals, and at only 20 years old and new to the game I was pretty awestruck.

The one thing about the culture of this game that has kept me hooked for so long are the story tellers that could be found in most pool halls. No where else could one find the number of characters in one place than at a pool hall. It seems the pool hall nurtured the art of story telling. Unfortunately, it seems that art is slowly dying out.

Back on topic, never got the chance to watch Earl gamble, but watched Tony Watson walk into Chicago Billiards in New Haven, CT about a year after the Branford tourney, when it was the hot spot and he offered the house the 7 out for as much as they could bet. I was told that when he had his mixture right he was the closest thing to Earl in his day. Those in the house were Lisciotti, Ginky, Frady, Basavich, Billy the kid Lanna... No one would play... Not because they didn't have the $$... The proprietor Ralph was loaded and would stake any of then for whatever if they asked. They knew that any game they would be getting into would be a bad game.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

If you like gambling stories, read "Titanic Thompson". I'm betting that once you start reading, you won't be able to put the book down.

( that is, if you're able to find it!)
 
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JWM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you like gambling stories, read "Titanic Thompson". I'm betting that once you start reading, you won't be able to put the book down.

( that is, if you're able to find it!)

Great Read!!! John Wesley
 
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