Who Has Played CJ??

[Cornerman]

No problem here I just don't have the man crush on him like others here do.
Do we judge pool players by the hustling ability or by their turny play because theirs a huge difference


1

I didn't realize you didn't know that CJ was one of the top tourney players between 1990-1995 when he all but stopped playing professional tournaments.

I see you put tournament results from him 10-15 years after he stopped playing the tournament trail.

 

[ribdoner]

CJ was a teenager when he came through this area in 84 or so and he gave a local champion, JK (KINARD) Mays the 8 on a gaffe table. CJ couldn't get there, but, he was in good (Buddy Hall) company.

was prolly prior to mastering toi

iirc he was with SAJ and an Ivory Jointed Balabushka was part of the score

disclaimer...i didn't witness the multi day match as it occured during one of my lengthy pool/action sabbaticals, however, it is from a VERY reliable source

 

[jamesroberts]

No, we knew about C.J. We thought it would be a tough game game but we gave him some action hoping to get him stuck a little and/or switch to banks or one-hole. Don't think Gary couldn't play 9-ball. He had a winning record with Buddy, Davenport and many other great players. He out-moved C.J. but C.J. took some shots that most would think were a bit reckless, but he made them all and took down the money.

Sherm

Spaeth? I was told he was the best banker in the world

 

[Hungarian]

The game is the teacher my friend...

I remember this match and I must say Gary was one of the toughest players in the country at that time on his home court. This was one of my specialties was playing champions on their "home court" because that's where you could generally win the BIG scores. My advantage was my game got stronger over time (using the TOI system, now could it not?) so I liked playing long ahead sets, where concentration and stamina were important.

My "advisers" warned me that Gary would play perfectly on that table and not to expect him to give away a single game. As you said, he had beat just about everyone that ever tried to play him there and some by convincing margins.

We started the match and I started evaluating Gary's game, sizing it up for "weaknesses".....hmmm, an hour goes by and I didn't see any. I could tell he was NOT going to miss a ball, and his position play was flawless. hmmm

After two hours I figured he didn't have any "playing weaknesses," however his stroke used a bit to much "energy" (moving parts) it appeared (I'm not sure if that was correct, I was just trying to find a 'nick in his armour'). So I found my strategy, I would wear his arm out.....hey, it's better to have an unusual strategy than no strategy at all.

About 8 hours into the match a long draw shot came up and Gary's stroke hitched slightly and he rattled that ball. I jumped up from my seat, knowing this was the chance I'd been waiting on, his arm was getting tired!!!

From that point on I must have beat him the next 15 out of 17 games to win the game/set/match. I believe that's one of the few matches I played with that scenario, where a man played at SUCH a high level the only hope I had of winning was to wear his arm out. 'The Game is.....extremely tough sometimes':thumbup:

 

[Ken_4fun]

Spaeth? I was told he was the best banker in the world

CJ can say what he wants but he didnt want any Spaeth bank action.....

I think CJ is smart enough to know that.

Ken

 

[one stroke]

I didn't realize you didn't know that CJ was one of the top tourney players between 1990-1995 when he all but stopped playing professional tournaments.

I see you put tournament results from him 10-15 years after he stopped playing the tournament trail.

By all means enlightened me with his us open and world championship wins I must have missed them

1

 

[ENGLISH!]

Dam..... from the way you quoted, it looked like I posted that statement

Sorry.

My bad. I messed up somehow. That was obviously not meant for you.

I probably read the quote & hit the button.

Good thing I'm not in charge of the launch sequences for nuclear missles.:wink:

Sorry again,

 

[ENGLISH!]

Hardware is the only measuring stick that won't be hear say and hypothetical down the road Each requires a different mind set. There are great turny players who can't gamble and their are great gamblers who don't play turnys well. But it's turny play that brings both and a traceable record

1

1,

Just curious. So if there is a great tourney player & there is this guy somewhere that does not travel & play tourneys but the great tourney player has played him over & over again for years & Years & has never been able to beat him. Who is the better player in your opinion?

Regards,

 

[Cornerman]

By all means enlightened me with his us open and world championship wins I must have missed them

1

At the risk of you not understanding and the risk of you accuse me of having a man crush, in the professional ranks with major tournaments that most top pros attended, there were only so many players at the time who would win. That's why we talk about days of Hall, Strickland, Sigel, Mizerak. It's tough to name more than five or maybe ten players from 90-95 that won more than one tournament where it was recognized that it was among the tournaments that had most every named player known.

CJ Wiley was one of those players. He won at least one televised tournament (ESPN "World 9-ball"). He also won the tournament that Earl ran the 10-pack for a million, IIRC. I'm sure someone else will dig into the memory banks to any other major tourney won (not a satellite tournament or a local tournament where some but not a lot of pro players played).

For those of us that subscribed to Billiards Digest and or Pool n Billiards, CJ name was always at the top finishers of just about every tournament he played. Pool n Billiards Magazine voted him their Player of the Year. It's impossible to be voted PoY in the early 90's by the second leading billiard magazine without being the top tournament player or two.

Freddie <~~~ no man crush, but the man deserves his due

 

[Lock N Load]

Sorry.

My bad. I messed up somehow. That was obviously not meant for you.

I probably read the quote & hit the button.

Good thing I'm not in charge of the launch sequences for nuclear missles.:wink:

Sorry again,

Mr. English,
How big is ESPN world champion? Not many pool players can say that! :thumbup::thumbup:
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[Lock N Load]

At the risk of you not understanding and the risk of you accuse me of having a man crush, in the professional ranks with major tournaments that most top pros attended, there were only so many players at the time who would win. That's why we talk about days of Hall, Strickland, Sigel, Mizerak. It's tough to name more than five or maybe ten players from 90-95 that won more than one tournament where it was recognized that it was among the tournaments that had most every named player known.

CJ Wiley was one of those players. He won at least one televised tournament (ESPN "World 9-ball"). He also won the tournament that Earl ran the 10-pack for a million, IIRC. I'm sure someone else will dig into the memory banks to any other major tourney won (not a satellite tournament or a local tournament where some but not a lot of pro players played).

For those of us that subscribed to Billiards Digest and or Pool n Billiards, CJ name was always at the top finishers of just about every tournament he played. Pool n Billiards Magazine voted him their Player of the Year. It's impossible to be voted PoY in the early 90's by the second leading billiard magazine without being the top tournament player or two.

Freddie <~~~ no man crush, but the man deserves his due

I talked to Buddy Hall, today and he said the man was a monster!!! Mr. CJ, that is. What has he won?
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[one stroke]

1,

Just curious. So if there is a great tourney player & there is this guy somewhere that does not travel & play tourneys but the great tourney player has played him over & over again for years & Years & has never been able to beat him. Who is the better player in your opinion?

Regards,

Head to head is a whole lot different than playing several top players with different styles and conning out on top time and time again
My nod would go with the turny player

1

 

[ENGLISH!]

Mr. English,
How big is ESPN world champion? Not many pool players can say that! :thumbup::thumbup:
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

Mr. Lock,

I think there is a three(3) part misunderstanding happening here somehow & I have learned that my 'quote button' is not working correctly & may be what started it.

You know I'm all for CJ.

Like you, I respect him & his accomplishements.

Like you say, how many have World Champion associated with their name?

Like you, I don't have a 'man crush' for him, but I do respect what I know of him.

The last 'crush' I had was for the hottest girl in McDonough 28 Jr. High School & that was more than 40 years ago.

Best Regards & Wishes,

 

[jay helfert]

Probably hehe, but we're talking about regular old shleps from the forums that took that poll. I don't even think Earl would average 5 racks in each match over any length of time.

You're saying Match as in a set in a tournament, not a Match meaning a full tournament? Or is the winky meant to say that it IS a Joke? LOL

Is there a tournament you can think of that he did this in? Even just one tournament where someone ran 5 racks every match would be very impressive! If it's something that AccuStats has on tape even better.

I will say it once again for emphasis, Earl ran 5 or 6 racks in nearly EVERY match he played (Races to Eleven) back in the 80's and early 90's, when he was the dominant 9-Ball player. If he only ran a couple of 3's it was not one of his best matches. He did this in tournament after tournament for several years. I was the director of many of those tournaments, particularly the Sands in Reno, held twice a year. Earl's high gear then was a ball above the rest of the world!

I saw many a match where Earl might be down something like 6-2 or 7-3 and the next time his opponent came to the table they were trailing by a couple of games. He took the wind out of their sails, that's for sure. I'm not sure I ever saw him run a 9 but he was certainly capable. Remember this is the guy who ran 11 racks on a tough Gold Crown for a million dollars. And he did it on the first day it was offered!

A 5 or 6 rack run was par for the course for Earl back then, not considered anything unusual. He remains the best tournament 9-Ball player I ever saw. And this in an era of Sigel, Hall, Varner, Hopkins, Mizerak, Howard, Rempe etc. etc.

 

[cuesmith]

Earl used to run 5's and 6's in every match he played! No joke.

That's about the truth. Earl probably had more 5 packs than every one else in history combined. lol That might be a bit of a stretch but they were so common with Earl, they were just expected! And he made it look so easy too. If all the "Earl knockers" out there really understood the level that he played at back then, I think they'd give him a little more respect. I'm not saying that he was always a perfect gentleman, but he tried SOOOOO HARD that he just couldn't turn that intensity on & off like a light switch. He shouldn't excused for being an ass but he also shouldn't be judged quite as harshly as a lot of people do. He should be understood as the competitor he is and if you want to see a really top gear out of someone don't expect it to come without some outbursts.

Sherm

 

[arnaldo]

I've seen the match, and it did get scrappy near the end, but there was still some quality play in there. And I know you were there, but it's on youtube, too .

----------------------------------
Re Earl beating SVB in the 10-ball Challenge at Tunica. IMHO Earl's mouth and his characteristic, deliberately disrupting antics are what eventually wore down SVB's concentration on key shots and ultimately let Earl catch up and beat him.

As you say, it was all on youtube and I'd let anyone who hasn't seen the match fairly judge exactly how Earl's behavior got him the eventual victory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q83NHdMQgRE

Jay's accurately negative comments about Earl in the days after, and right up to the present in this thread are precisely on target, in my view.

Arnaldo

 

[ENGLISH!]

Head to head is a whole lot different than playing several top players with different styles and conning out on top time and time again
My nod would go with the turny player

1

Okay,

What if that 'other' guy at home in 'Mid America' that does not travel has also beaten the other tourney players as well?

My point is that while I agree with you that tournaments are a more well rounded competition, I do not think that one should be excluded from consideration just because one does not play them.

Mike Massey is a great player that did not do very well in tourneys because he was focussed more on the sure money of his trick shot exhibitions.

I realize this is a moot point with no right or wrong. I was just trying to make a point.

I certainly respect your opinion.

Regards,

 

[jay helfert]

I didn't realize you didn't know that CJ was one of the top tourney players between 1990-1995 when he all but stopped playing professional tournaments.

I see you put tournament results from him 10-15 years after he stopped playing the tournament trail.

CJ was a good tournament player when he chose to play, which was not all that often. He became a successful businessman and occasional pool gambler in the 90's. He was more well known as a money player (for big money too!) than for winning tourneys. CJ was looking to play guys who won tournaments for the cash! :wink:

 

[Lock N Load]

Mr. Lock,

I think there is a three(3) part misunderstanding happening here somehow & I have learned that my 'quote button' is not working correctly & may be what started it.

You know I'm all for CJ.

Like you, I respect him & his accomplishements.

Like you say, how many have World Champion associated with their name?

Like you, I don't have a 'man crush' for him, but I do respect what I know of him.

The last 'crush' I had was for the hottest girl in McDonough 28 Jr. High School & that was more than 40 years ago.

Best Regards & Wishes,

Mr. English,
I really do not know where the Man Crush thing came up from. Why do you have to have that, to like a person? I like several NASCAR drivers, and the same for some NHRA drag racing people. I use to drag race all over.

I was with Truman Hogue, Greg Sullivan, Ronnie Wiseman, Mike Black, Josh Roberts, and a good shooting guy name David, who was with Josh.
They know me and respect me very much and my pool game. Of course this was at the worlds pool hall.
So, perhaps I have some of them Crushes they are talking about? Who knows?
Lock<--------- Can like someone without having a Crush!!!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[ENGLISH!]

CJ was a good tournament player when he chose to play, which was not all that often. He became a successful businessman and occasional pool gambler in the 90's. He was more well known as a money player (for big money too!) than for winning tourneys. CJ was looking to play guys who won tournaments for the cash! :wink:

That sounds like a good startegy to me. Let them all play all of the matches to win the tourney & the money. Then play them for the money.

I know you do not mean to relay that he played them immediately.

I'm just saying, it seems to be a good strategy.