Who Is #2 In U;S.A?
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
Jayson?? I'm not so sure that he counts....?
For sure Shaw is #1 or #2, but he plays for Scotland.Johnnyt
My pick will be Jayson Shaw with Mike Dechaine coming in close.
It all boils down to consistency during crunch time ( pressure ).
However I feel Shane's undisputedly no.1 due to his consistency and superior break ( especially 10 ball ) however only on America's soil.
But i wish Jayson can up his game n overtake Shane as i feel he has more natural talent n better shot-making firepower , dude just needs to get his head n composure in check n he can go really far as he demonstrated in Kuwait.
If it really were Earl, I think Iba's DCC 9 ball odds would have been filled by now at 40:1
Ability wise- probably still true, but he usually can't keep it together mentally for extended periods.
I think Bergman is the second best rotation player. Morris and Dechaine rank up there as well.
Yep yep yep
I'll give Bergman a vote.
SVB left handed :grin-square:
Earl second best to Shane??? SACRILEGE!.
I know quite a few people who play like number two.
I played for three hours this morning and started our playing like number two ... really stunk. PU. Then I got it together and played, er, hm, much better.
It's very close between Bergman and Dechaine.
Just for fun, I threw their tournament records from the past 3 years into a spreadsheet.
I weeded out all events that weren't 9b and 10b (including American Rotation)
I threw out mosconi cup for both of them since that's free money even if you lose.
If I wanted to be really thorough I'd see if any of the other events
are free rolls or invitation only, but I was lazy.
I also don't know if maybe AZ missed some events, or had typos, or
has some data that still hasn't been entered.
The results look like this:
Total money won:
------------------------
Bergman: $145,563
Dechaine: $90,733
However, it's worth pointing out that $40,000 of Bergman's money came from a single gambling set with Oscar Dominguez, where Bergman won $40,000. It's unknown if there are other similar sets for either player, that didn't get labelled "tournaments" and wouldn't show on the AZB money lists.
Another $10,000 came from a single event with just 4 players, "young guns vs. old school", with justin and sky vs. archer and morris. This is a one-off, independent, invitational event that MD couldn't have entered, and part of it involved 8-ball, so you could argue that shouldn't be in the money list either. Between that and the 40k set with oscar, you could argue that bergman actually made a little less than dechaine in tournament prize money.
Top 3 Finishes
--------------------
Dechaine: 1st x 16, 2nd x 7, 3rd x 3 out of 57 events.
Bergman: 1st x 12, 2nd x 4, 3rd x 0 out of 39 events.
So bergman has fewer top finishes, but also fewer attempts. And this doesn't differentiate
between a $1000 first place and a $10000 first place. At a glance though, Justin
has a few 5-figure wins and mike doesn't have any in the past 3 years (not counting the
$10,000 prize for losing the MC). Mike's biggest payouts are a pair of $7500 payouts,
while bergman 2 wins in the Smokin' Aces barbox event worth 20k and 15.5k.
Average winnings per event
---------------------------------
Dechaine: $1691.81
Bergman: $3732.38
So this is just the amount of money won, divided by number of events entered.
Bergman's is way higher obviously. If you remove the skewing caused by
his set with Oscar and the Young Guns event, it's $2450.33. Still significantly higher.
So it looks like he wins more money, more consistently, though MD makes up for it
by entering more tournaments.
Performance in events they both entered
----------------------------------------------
Don Coates Memorial 9b - tied 5th
Tornado Open 2016 - JB 5th, MD 9th
US Open 9-Ball 2016 - MD 13th, JB 17th
DCC 2016 9B Div. - tied 70th
Turning Stone XXIV - MD 2nd, JB 17th
SBE 2015 Players C'ship - MD 4th, JB 17th
US Open 9-Ball 2015 - JB 9th, MD 13th
US Open 9-Ball 2014 - MD 4th, JB 17th
DCC 2014 9B Div. - MD 6th, JB 13th
3rd Annual Steinway Cl. - MD 7th, JB 9th
So Mike comes out ahead here, Bergman's only finished above him twice out of 10 events
that they both attended. MD's final 4 in the US Open is pretty impressive.
Overall, I'd say Bergman is our new "discount shane". Especially because the trend seems to be that Bergman is on his way up while Dechaine is just holding steady or maybe slumping a bit. If we want to look at MC performance, Justin's done better too, though nobody's doing really well on team USA. In the most recent event, Justin won 2 matches and Mike didn't win any, and that brings their individual match records to
Dechaine: 5 - 16 (23.8%)
Bergman: 6 - 10 (37.5%)
For a while, Mike was clearly the next in line after SVB, and over the long haul he's been very consistent, earning 30-60 every year since 2008. He's grinding it out and seems to be a true professional in the sense that he's making a living year after year on his pool earnings. Bergman meanwhile is very streaky... he'll have a miracle year (2008, won a ring game for 20k and a tar match for another 20k) and then years where he barely makes a thousand bucks in tournament prize money. But generally speaking, he wins more money in fewer events, and especially in the last 3 years.
Just for fun, I threw their tournament records from the past 3 years into a spreadsheet.
I weeded out all events that weren't 9b and 10b (including American Rotation)
I threw out mosconi cup for both of them since that's free money even if you lose.
If I wanted to be really thorough I'd see if any of the other events
are free rolls or invitation only, but I was lazy.
I also don't know if maybe AZ missed some events, or had typos, or
has some data that still hasn't been entered.
The results look like this:
Total money won:
------------------------
Bergman: $145,563
Dechaine: $90,733
However, it's worth pointing out that $40,000 of Bergman's money came from a single gambling set with Oscar Dominguez, where Bergman won $40,000. It's unknown if there are other similar sets for either player, that didn't get labelled "tournaments" and wouldn't show on the AZB money lists.
Another $10,000 came from a single event with just 4 players, "young guns vs. old school", with justin and sky vs. archer and morris. This is a one-off, independent, invitational event that MD couldn't have entered, and part of it involved 8-ball, so you could argue that shouldn't be in the money list either. Between that and the 40k set with oscar, you could argue that bergman actually made a little less than dechaine in tournament prize money.
Top 3 Finishes
--------------------
Dechaine: 1st x 16, 2nd x 7, 3rd x 3 out of 57 events.
Bergman: 1st x 12, 2nd x 4, 3rd x 0 out of 39 events.
So bergman has fewer top finishes, but also fewer attempts. And this doesn't differentiate
between a $1000 first place and a $10000 first place. At a glance though, Justin
has a few 5-figure wins and mike doesn't have any in the past 3 years (not counting the
$10,000 prize for losing the MC). Mike's biggest payouts are a pair of $7500 payouts,
while bergman 2 wins in the Smokin' Aces barbox event worth 20k and 15.5k.
Average winnings per event
---------------------------------
Dechaine: $1691.81
Bergman: $3732.38
So this is just the amount of money won, divided by number of events entered.
Bergman's is way higher obviously. If you remove the skewing caused by
his set with Oscar and the Young Guns event, it's $2450.33. Still significantly higher.
So it looks like he wins more money, more consistently, though MD makes up for it
by entering more tournaments.
Performance in events they both entered
----------------------------------------------
Don Coates Memorial 9b - tied 5th
Tornado Open 2016 - JB 5th, MD 9th
US Open 9-Ball 2016 - MD 13th, JB 17th
DCC 2016 9B Div. - tied 70th
Turning Stone XXIV - MD 2nd, JB 17th
SBE 2015 Players C'ship - MD 4th, JB 17th
US Open 9-Ball 2015 - JB 9th, MD 13th
US Open 9-Ball 2014 - MD 4th, JB 17th
DCC 2014 9B Div. - MD 6th, JB 13th
3rd Annual Steinway Cl. - MD 7th, JB 9th
So Mike comes out ahead here, Bergman's only finished above him twice out of 10 events
that they both attended. MD's final 4 in the US Open is pretty impressive.
Overall, I'd say Bergman is our new "discount shane". Especially because the trend seems to be that Bergman is on his way up while Dechaine is just holding steady or maybe slumping a bit. If we want to look at MC performance, Justin's done better too, though nobody's doing really well on team USA. In the most recent event, Justin won 2 matches and Mike didn't win any, and that brings their individual match records to
Dechaine: 5 - 16 (23.8%)
Bergman: 6 - 10 (37.5%)
For a while, Mike was clearly the next in line after SVB, and over the long haul he's been very consistent, earning 30-60 every year since 2008. He's grinding it out and seems to be a true professional in the sense that he's making a living year after year on his pool earnings. Bergman meanwhile is very streaky... he'll have a miracle year (2008, won a ring game for 20k and a tar match for another 20k) and then years where he barely makes a thousand bucks in tournament prize money. But generally speaking, he wins more money in fewer events, and especially in the last 3 years.
Tough to say. Bergman was clearly #1 at the Mosconi, but the truth is that SVB is indisputably #1 among Americans.
I'm sure I'm not alone on wanting to see a Dechaine vs Bergman match, and from what Justin has posted, they are quite keen on playing each other and betting high. I'd have to call the winner of such a match America's second best. No doubt, it could go either way.
Incidentally, Billy Thorpe is in the conversation, but I'm not sure he's ready for Bergman or Dechaine in a long race quite yet. He will be soon. Another player whose game is on the rise is Josh Roberts, and the sky's the limit for Josh.
On bar tables, Sky Woodward is probably #2 in America.
I'm sure I'm not alone on wanting to see a Dechaine vs Bergman match, and from what Justin has posted, they are quite keen on playing each other and betting high. I'd have to call the winner of such a match America's second best. No doubt, it could go either way.
Incidentally, Billy Thorpe is in the conversation, but I'm not sure he's ready for Bergman or Dechaine in a long race quite yet. He will be soon. Another player whose game is on the rise is Josh Roberts, and the sky's the limit for Josh.
On bar tables, Sky Woodward is probably #2 in America.