Who is known to make the most forward balanced cue "butt"??

[jrctherake]

I'm curious, who makes forward balanced cue "butt"?

It can be production or full custom.

Most of the shafts I use are 3.5 oz to 3.8 oz. They are carbon fiber shafts.

Before going to carbon fiber I was use to shafts that weighed 4.3ish to 4.6ish range.

With the lighter carbon shafts the cues' balance just doesn't suit me feel wise.

Thanks!

 

[S.Vaskovskyi]

Some more...

 

[R2PQZ]

Thank you! It was driving me nuts that I couldn’t remember his name..

He is taking some beautiful new cues to Lincoln City Oregon this next week. Just saw him today.

 

[Quesports]

G10 pins are pretty light, though

Yes I know that. But I bet Joe would install a different pin if it was requested.

 

[Poolplaya9]

As others have mentioned, cues with heavy joint and pin materials and heavy forearm woods are going to tend to be more forward weighted. Here are a few more things that help shift the balance more forward. You don't just want a heavy forearm wood but ideally you want a lighter (or at least not heavy) handle and butt sleeve wood as well to maximize the forward balance. The thinner/skinnier the butt the more forward weighted it will tend to be as well. The wrap material will also affect the balance, maybe not a ton but if every bit helps..... I'm guessing cork would result in the most forward balance, followed by leather, then Irish linen, and with no wrap bringing up the rear and being the most rear weighted.

 

[straightline]

High end, Natural Balance construction aside, what's wrong with just putting weight right behind the joint?

 

[jrctherake]

With the lighter shaft too are you sure it's the balance and not the overall lightness? Have you compared its actual balance point with non-CF cues?

pj
chgo

The three original wood shafts weighed 4.2, 4.4 and 4.5 ounces.

The butt weighed 14.5 ounces with no weight bolt.

When butt was paired with the 4.5 oz shaft, the cue was 58" long, it weighed 19 oz, the balance point was 20.25" from butt end and had an AMAZING feel that suited me to a "t".

With the lighter 4.2 and 4.4 shafts the balance point moved, but not enough to mattet..... especially with the 4.4 oz. It was basically identical in balance and feel.

The 4.2 was a little "off" in the balance and feel department, but not enough to keep me from adjusting in minutes of play.

With I used the revo carbon shaft that weighed 3.5 oz.... I had to put a bolt in the butt to keep the cue weight at 19 oz.

Due to the cue loosing an ounce up front, but gaining 1.5 ounces in the butt..... it moved the balance point back to a hair under 18" from end of butt.

It feels like a different cue at that setup and I don't like it at all.

Using the 3.8 carbon shaft helped keep the balance a "little" better than the 3.5, but the 3.8 revo had a buzz to it. I had to get rid of it.

 

[jrctherake]

I have a Pechauer Rogue CF shaft. It comes in at 4.2 oz. That would probably work. What's the joint type you're using?

Also I think it was previously mentioned, but if your going to play with a lighter CF shaft, you would need to go with a steel jointed cue, or at least something with a heavier steel pin.

It's wood to wood radial.

It's a predator roadline le5.

I actually sent a pechauer butt to a local cue maker a couple days ago. He is removing the pechauer speed joint and adding a steel radial.

After he removes the speed joint, he is drilling and threading a couple of small weight bolts into forearm with epoxy and then adding a steel radial pin.

The pechauer is the JP version, but it's one of the older JP cues that has a steel collar.

I'm hoping that between the steel collar, added weight behind the pin and the steel radial pin..... it will be forward balanced enough to suit my needs.

That particular butt only weighed 13.5 oz with no weight bolt when I sent it to him.

After he adds the weight bolts behind the pin and adds the steel radial pin, I'm expecting the butt to weigh in the ballpark of 15 oz.

That should move have a balance point of at least 20ish inches from butt end when paired with my revos.

BTW, if that works I'm planning on letting him remove the factory radial pin from my predator le5 butt and add some weight behind pin and then reinstall a steel radial pin.

We'll see....

 

[jrctherake]

I have a Pechauer Rogue CF shaft. It comes in at 4.2 oz. That would probably work. What's the joint type you're using?

Also I think it was previously mentioned, but if your going to play with a lighter CF shaft, you would need to go with a steel jointed cue, or at least something with a heavier steel pin.

I thought about buying a Rogue shaft to go with the jp butt. Problem was I could find a Rogue to try.

I had nothing but reviews to go on and the reviews were all over the place.

Some said the Rogue was very low deflection. Others said it was low, but not as low as a revo. Then again, others said the rogues have extremely high deflection.

The only thing that was across the board the same in Rogue reviews was the "feel...sound" part. Everyone said the Rogue feels and sounds very close to maple shafts.

If I could trust it to have been similar to a revo in deflection, I would have purchased a couple rogues along time ago.

I'll let everyone know how my experiment turns out.

 

[jrctherake]

It is easy to install a second weight bolt behind the pin of your cue butt or have someone make a heavier collar if you are already playing with a stainless one.

Assuming you still have your old wooden shafts measure the balance point with the one of them you like best and ask a cue builder to match that balance point. Weight front and rear in the cue butt can be juggled to get the feel you want.

Hu

Hey buddy. Long time no talk.

I hope you have been well and have been able to play regular.

Great minds think alike.

I sent a cheap cue butt to experiment with.

It already has a steel collar, but the pin was a tiny pechauer speed joint.

Cue guy is removing the pin, threading a couple small weight bolts behind pin and then adding a steel radial pin.

I'm hoping it turns out good. If so, I'm gonna have him change my main player to those exact specs.

Have a good day buddy!!!

 

[jrctherake]

I might have something interesting for you. You could remember me from some discussions here ...about cf shafts for example.
Cue-building came out my hobby recently. So as I'm used to learn by doing I started with the cues for myself experimenting. Being tall my needs and preferences when it comes to cues are far from standart. At the moment I have 4 cues built for myself. All are 62" (31"+31"). So all the butts are 31" long.
All of them are pretty special for certain reasons for me.
If not the circumstances and the situation in my country I would never thought about letting go any of them...but after russian invasion there are more important things at the moment.
So one of the butts could be interesting for you. It is the lightest out of them. Slightly above 14 oz. It was an interesting project. The main goal was to get it light weighted and forward balanced. It was a success first of all due to the construction used. The woods and the materials are exceptional.
The balance of the butt itself is 14,17" (14,05 oz) together with my 3,95 oz shaft it makes the balance 20.5" (18 oz).
So as the pin is light G10. The weight and balance can be easily modified. If I change the pin to the brass one I can get it at around 15,3 oz and pretty forward balanced.
The weight is natural so as all of my cues. It's built to except the rear extension with 3/8-10 modified pin. The extension could be built for it. Due to my height I just didn't need it much.
By making and using the short light weighted rear extension the length could be added if you like and it won't change the balance much.
Now I'll let some pictures talk and if you'll be interested then I can show some more pictures of the process to see the construction idea and other details in PM.
I know you love pool and playing strong so I know this special for me butt could find very skillful hands. I hope your back feels better and you're enjoying the game.

Happy easter!

Happy Easter to you too sir.

My back is holding thus far. Last couple surgeries helped it seems..... time will tell.

As for your advice... it's always spot on.

AZB has some really great folks and you are definitely one of them.

I just sent a cue butt to a local cue guy.

I'm hoping it turns out to my liking, but if it doesn't, I'll keep your offer in mind and get in touch.

BTW, I hope all is well with you.

I will humbly put you in my prayers...... "" ......

Stay safe sir!!!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Espiritu and Buss .
Heavy ss collars and thin handles .

 

[S.Vaskovskyi]

Happy Easter to you too sir.

My back is holding thus far. Last couple surgeries helped it seems..... time will tell.

As for your advice... it's always spot on.

AZB has some really great folks and you are definitely one of them.

I just sent a cue butt to a local cue guy.

I'm hoping it turns out to my liking, but if it doesn't, I'll keep your offer in mind and get in touch.

BTW, I hope all is well with you.

I will humbly put you in my prayers...... "" ......

Stay safe sir!!!

I'm glad the surgeries helped and hope you'll feel better so to enjoy the game.
Thanks for your kind words. It's great the love for this game united people thinking alike and that AZB gives these possibilities.
It's also great to hear the words of support here.
I'm fine...I'm lucky to have a lathe at my apartment and some projects started before the invasion...so the work on them even in spite of the air sirens from time to time helps a lot now. You get used to many things and we'll hold on for as long as it takes...one day to celebrate...
I wish you're happy with the results and the work done... that should work.
And BTW I'm Serhii

 

[ShootingArts]

Hey buddy. Long time no talk.

I hope you have been well and have been able to play regular.

Great minds think alike.

I sent a cheap cue butt to experiment with.

It already has a steel collar, but the pin was a tiny pechauer speed joint.

Cue guy is removing the pin, threading a couple small weight bolts behind pin and then adding a steel radial pin.

I'm hoping it turns out good. If so, I'm gonna have him change my main player to those exact specs.

Have a good day buddy!!!

Have a great day yourself. Happy Easter Monday! Interesting times here but I hope to have moved past most of them within six months.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Rake,

I went through this exact exercise last year. The issues with the CF shafts isn’t their weight. It’s their weight distribution. They are balanced further towards the joint, due to the lack of end mass. Every CF shaft I’ve checked balances several inches further back than most shafts. If you play with LD shafts, the difference isn’t as much, but it’s still there.

I switched to a more forward balanced butt. Went with a Joss. Stainless steel joint. I like a cue to have a balance point of at least 18.5” from the butt cap, assuming it’s 58” long. My Joss shafts (standard deflection) are 3.5 and 3.7 ounces. My Rogue is 4.2 ounces. The cue has a more forward balance with the solid wood shafts than with the CF shaft. Hope this helps.

 

[jrctherake]

I'm glad the surgeries helped and hope you'll feel better so to enjoy the game.
Thanks for your kind words. It's great the love for this game united people thinking alike and that AZB gives these possibilities.
It's also great to hear the words of support here.
I'm fine...I'm lucky to have a lathe at my apartment and some projects started before the invasion...so the work on them even in spite of the air sirens from time to time helps a lot now. You get used to many things and we'll hold on for as long as it takes...one day to celebrate...
I wish you're happy with the results and the work done... that should work.
And BTW I'm Serhii

I included you in my afternoon prayers.

You have a great attitude Serhii.

Even in bad circumstances, people with good attitudes tend to fair better than others.

I have much respect for people like yourself.

God bless

 

[jrctherake]

Have a great day yourself. Happy Easter Monday! Interesting times here but I hope to have moved past most of them within six months.

You're a strong person Hu.... You will outlive all of us.

 

[jrctherake]

Rake,

I went through this exact exercise last year. The issues with the CF shafts isn’t their weight. It’s their weight distribution. They are balanced further towards the joint, due to the lack of end mass. Every CF shaft I’ve checked balances several inches further back than most shafts. If you play with LD shafts, the difference isn’t as much, but it’s still there.

I switched to a more forward balanced butt. Went with a Joss. Stainless steel joint. I like a cue to have a balance point of at least 18.5” from the butt cap, assuming it’s 58” long. My Joss shafts (standard deflection) are 3.5 and 3.7 ounces. My Rogue is 4.2 ounces. The cue has a more forward balance with the solid wood shafts than with the CF shaft. Hope this helps.

Yes sir. Your input was much appreciated.

Thanks a ton!

 

[ShootingArts]

You're a strong person Hu.... You will outlive all of us.

What would be the fun in that? I am thinking I need to go borrow all the money I can everywhere I can. Then when the time comes somewhere a long ways down the road I can do like a man I much admired, he named the six people he owed the most money as his coffin bearers. "They have carried me this far, might as well finish the job!"

Hu

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Yes sir. Your input was much appreciated.

Thanks a ton!

You’re welcome. I think cue manufacturers should be paying more attention to how the balance points on the cues are progressively moving backwards. This is fine if the population is tall, as the balance point moves further back, to accommodate for a larger wingspan. But shorter players will always be struggling with added rear weight. The reason a lot of players prefer custom cues is because the custom makers work more with balance points. Most good custom cues come in at around a 19” or slightly more forward, from the butt cap, for a 58” cue. Cues generally balance well around 39-40” measured from the tip. With one piece cores in modern cues, we lost a chunk of metal that used to be ahead of our grip hand. So, production cues have progressively become more rear balanced. Now, with CF shafts, you’re seeing a drastic change in balance points on the shafts. We’re talking inches. That can account for up to an inch difference in balance point for the entire cue. That’s a huge difference. I used to work on cues, and had a real knack for cue setup. I had a bag of 9 different butts, all with the same joint. I used to get players to play with 18.5, 19.5, and 20.5 oz cues. They also had balance points that were the same. 19” from butt end, 18” from butt end, and 17” from butt end. I’d ask them their feedback, but would also watch them shoot with all of the cues. You end up figuring out that balance point is more important to most players, over the cue’s actual weight. If I was fitting players these days, I’d be suggesting that if CF is in their future, figure out their balance point on the cue they like to play with. Get the CF shaft they like, and want to play with. And then try to find a butt that gives them that same balance. I really struggled with my choice between CF and wood, and I thought it had to do with the different material. When I went to the more forward balanced cue, suddenly CF was clearly preferred. The cue finally felt “right”.

 

[mikemosconi]

I think the physical effect of a cue's balance on the tip's stability through impact must be next to none - but of course how it feels is important too.

pj
chgo

I agree here for sure. No matter where the cue's balance point falls; it is up to the player to learn how to execute a correct stroke. I doubt the balance point affects a cue tip's "stability" - how a cue feels to someone in terms of balance point may affect their comfort level with a cue - the location of the balance point itself will not make a cue actually play better as a cue.