Well, it is a very bad assumption if you were to ask me.
Asia is a continent comprising of many countries.
Furthermore, China is not the only Asian country making cues.
Who is really responsible for the quality of Asian Import Cues
- Thread starter manwon
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Well, it is a very bad assumption if you were to ask me.
Asia is a continent comprising of many countries.
Furthermore, China is not the only Asian country making cues.
it is what it is. nobody's brought up any quality issues with cues coming out of japan. just china and the P.I.
John Barton
New member
Well, I can see the natural assumption in a jaded world being that everyone who gets paid by a company becomes a slave to them.
But that's not me. I have been critical of Sterling Gaming and myself on this forum. I have never been anyone's cheerleader unless I truly believe in them.
I approach sales of Chinese made cues the same way I approach sales of my own cases. If I feel that I can't sell you something and look you in the eye a year later then I don't sell it.
This is the same way I have approached sales of anything I have sold or made.
So you can believe it or not but I have to face the people I sell to at shows and if their cues were falling apart or otherwise not working for them I'd definitely hear about it.
J&J America is a registered business in the state of California as far as I know. J&J does not own any factories. They purchase their goods from the same suppliers as most other importers.
In the sense that J&J sells their cues from an American warehouse they are most certainly in the same class as the American owned importers. That their overhead is less is of no consequence in terms of how they do business and who their competition is.
They aren't cutting out the middleman they just do less marketing, don't support pool, and are willing to take less margin on the goods they sell.
John, the above statement you made is mostly incorrect, while J & J America does handle many items and yes some are purchased from local US Companies their brand name cues and cases are made by them for them in Taiwan. Now John to my knowledge none of the others distributes have their own factory where they produce their items and then sell them in the USA.
Below is J & J America's Mission statement,along with their company profile, oh and by the way John why do you think they are called J & J America!!:thumbup:
Below is a link to J & J Americas website where the following information came from:
http://www.jjcue.com/aboutus.htm
Our Mission
As one of the leading providers of fine cues, custom pool cues, hard to find collectable cues, quality cue cases, and billiard accessories, we try our best to bring more and more billiard products, at unbeatable prices, to meet our customers' need.
Company Profile
J&J America Billiards Inc., is partners with a cue manufacturer who for over 30 years has been making cues for many large billiard distributors in the USA and other countries. Since 1994 when we established our sales office and distribution center located in California, J&J cues and J&J cue cases have been very popular and profitable for our customers. We also promote and distribute our high end cues under brand name Kaiser cues & Panther cues, and our high end cue cases under brand name Vincitore cases & WIN cases. All of our products are very popular in the billiard market around the world.
In order to provide enhanced service to our customers, in 1996, we began to offer other brand name cues, cue cases, and billiard accessories. Currently we are distributing cues, most of them have been designed exclusively for J&J by Joss Cues, Schon Cues, DP Cues, Samsara Cues, Espiritu RE Cues, AC Cues, Ed Prewitt Cues, Falcon Cues, Predator Cues, Tiger Cues, OB Cues, & Poison Cues. We are the exclusive distributor of Tad Custom Cues in the USA. We exclusively distribute some models made by Mezz Cues, Japan's number one cues. We also stock and sell cues by famous cue makers such as Ginacue, Bill Schick, Mike Bender, Southwest Cues, Cognoscenti and Josswest Cues. In the near future we will be stocking more brand name cues.
Now John compare the above statement to Sterlings Mission Statement:
About Us
We are always looking to partner with billiard retail suppliers, internet marketers and gamerooms world wide. We supply a complete line of pool and billiard supplies and many complimentary accessories for your business. From our past experience with retail, we feel that we are very capable of helping a dealer satisfy his customers. Plus, we stock the products that pool players want, and it is hard to go wrong when you have what people want. Understanding the different needs of each business type we've partnered with has allowed us to diversify our product offerings. This allows our dealers' products to have exposure to industry magazines, papers, trade shows, web-exposure, chat rooms, as well as television exposure from players sponsored by our products. We sponsor and support the Fury Tour at over 1,000 pool rooms in 23 states across the U.S.A. Our support of many top players in the UPA and WPBA has given our dealers a wide range of exposure. We also take great pride in assisting with other tours and promoting the game among the youth of America. By working together with everyone in the business and playing a key part in growing the industry as a whole, we will be well positioned to capitalize on that growth, right along with the other people that are working to make it a better place. We have a great team of people in our building, and this team will accomplish great things.
Now John since we have cleared that issue up I will try and answer the rest of your post below.
The thing is that Sterling Gaming for example has prices comparable to J&J's on many items and supports pool and 14 families on top of it.
So this is sort of on topic since it is your opinion as stated at the beginning of this thread that companies which do not provide a written warranty have cues which are of lower quality is also then your opinion that J&J's cue quality must be lower than all others?
And so it is also your opinion that a company which allows consumers to save money on the products they want is doing a good thing right?
John I never said Sterling did not offer comparable prices on many items, however, this does not include their brand name cues and cue cases because they are having a factory make their items for them which in turn will increase the items price over a company that manufactures their own.
Now John when you say that J & J America doesn't advertise or support the Pool Comunity you are also wrong, below is additional information directly from J & J America's Website.
We are a voting member of the Billiard Congress of America. We exhibit our billiard products at the BCA international trade show, the Super Billiards Expo at Valley Forge, the Los Angeles Billiards Expo. Our distributors exhibit and sell our products at the BCA, APA, and VNEA tournaments in Las Vegas, and many other large tournaments in the USA. We support players in some of the billiard tournaments. We have dealers in most of the states in the USA. We also have international dealers in many countries. We have advertisements in the Billiards Digest, Billiard Retailer, Inside Pool, and the Pool & Billiard Magazine
John your description on the Sterling Website fits you very well, I could not have said it any better myself!!!!
The following description of John can be found on the link to the Sterling Website below!!!!!
http://www.sterling-gaming.com/about-us-t-3.html
John Barton came to us from Instroke Sports. Instroke Sports is the cue case company that John founded in 1991 in his Koblenz, Germany basement. John started playing pool in an Florida Boy's Club at the age of thirteen. Pool has always been a part of John's life throughout the various jobs he has held. He worked as a waiter, a factory line worker, a bar manager, a weather observer and a show diver before he started Instroke Sports. John really was the guy who set himself on fire and jumped from the high dive. Having sold Instroke in 2004, John joined Sterling as the "Minister of Propaganda" in November of 2004. John brings a wealth of knowledge and ideas to the Sterling team. Some of his JB-Ideas are off-the-wall and some of them improve our ability to provide better service. John helps to develop and evaluate new products, markets the products at shows, and makes beer runs when the mailings are done. As long as he doesn't go around setting himself on fire we'll keep him around.
Thanks for your post John, and I must say that your title as the Minister Of Propaganda fits very well!!!!
Take Care
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Thanks very much for your opinion, this thread is not just open to Retailers or Cue makers, it is open to anyone who has some input that is constructive. I personally think you made some very good points that are very hard to argue with, and I think most who read your post will find some good information.
Thanks Again for your post.
John Barton
New member
J&J America is a registered business in the state of California as far as I know. J&J does not own any factories. They purchase their goods from the same suppliers as most other importers.
In the sense that J&J sells their cues from an American warehouse they are most certainly in the same class as the American owned importers. That their overhead is less is of no consequence in terms of how they do business and who their competition is.
They aren't cutting out the middleman they just do less marketing, don't support pool, and are willing to take less margin on the goods they sell.
John, the above statement you made is mostly incorrect, while J & J America does handle many items and yes some are purchased from local US Companies their brand name cues and cases are made by them for them in Taiwan. Now John to my knowledge none of the others distributes have their own factory where they produce their items and then sell them in the USA.
Below is J & J America's Mission statement,along with their company profile, oh and by the way John why do you think they are called J & J America!!:thumbup:
Below is a link to J & J Americas website where the following information came from:
http://www.jjcue.com/aboutus.htm
Our Mission
As one of the leading providers of fine cues, custom pool cues, hard to find collectable cues, quality cue cases, and billiard accessories, we try our best to bring more and more billiard products, at unbeatable prices, to meet our customers' need.
Company Profile
J&J America Billiards Inc., is partners with a cue manufacturer who for over 30 years has been making cues for many large billiard distributors in the USA and other countries. Since 1994 when we established our sales office and distribution center located in California, J&J cues and J&J cue cases have been very popular and profitable for our customers. We also promote and distribute our high end cues under brand name Kaiser cues & Panther cues, and our high end cue cases under brand name Vincitore cases & WIN cases. All of our products are very popular in the billiard market around the world.
In order to provide enhanced service to our customers, in 1996, we began to offer other brand name cues, cue cases, and billiard accessories. Currently we are distributing cues, most of them have been designed exclusively for J&J by Joss Cues, Schon Cues, DP Cues, Samsara Cues, Espiritu RE Cues, AC Cues, Ed Prewitt Cues, Falcon Cues, Predator Cues, Tiger Cues, OB Cues, & Poison Cues. We are the exclusive distributor of Tad Custom Cues in the USA. We exclusively distribute some models made by Mezz Cues, Japan's number one cues. We also stock and sell cues by famous cue makers such as Ginacue, Bill Schick, Mike Bender, Southwest Cues, Cognoscenti and Josswest Cues. In the near future we will be stocking more brand name cues.
Now John compare the above statement to Sterlings Mission Statement:
About Us
We are always looking to partner with billiard retail suppliers, internet marketers and gamerooms world wide. We supply a complete line of pool and billiard supplies and many complimentary accessories for your business. From our past experience with retail, we feel that we are very capable of helping a dealer satisfy his customers. Plus, we stock the products that pool players want, and it is hard to go wrong when you have what people want. Understanding the different needs of each business type we've partnered with has allowed us to diversify our product offerings. This allows our dealers' products to have exposure to industry magazines, papers, trade shows, web-exposure, chat rooms, as well as television exposure from players sponsored by our products. We sponsor and support the Fury Tour at over 1,000 pool rooms in 23 states across the U.S.A. Our support of many top players in the UPA and WPBA has given our dealers a wide range of exposure. We also take great pride in assisting with other tours and promoting the game among the youth of America. By working together with everyone in the business and playing a key part in growing the industry as a whole, we will be well positioned to capitalize on that growth, right along with the other people that are working to make it a better place. We have a great team of people in our building, and this team will accomplish great things.
Now John since we have cleared that issue up I will try and answer the rest of your post below.
The thing is that Sterling Gaming for example has prices comparable to J&J's on many items and supports pool and 14 families on top of it.
So this is sort of on topic since it is your opinion as stated at the beginning of this thread that companies which do not provide a written warranty have cues which are of lower quality is also then your opinion that J&J's cue quality must be lower than all others?
And so it is also your opinion that a company which allows consumers to save money on the products they want is doing a good thing right?
John I never said Sterling did not offer comparable prices on many items, however, this does not include their brand name cues and cue cases because they are having a factory make their items for them which in turn will increase the items price over a company that manufactures their own.
Now John when you say that J & J America doesn't advertise or support the Pool Comunity you are also wrong, below is additional information directly from J & J America's Website.
We are a voting member of the Billiard Congress of America. We exhibit our billiard products at the BCA international trade show, the Super Billiards Expo at Valley Forge, the Los Angeles Billiards Expo. Our distributors exhibit and sell our products at the BCA, APA, and VNEA tournaments in Las Vegas, and many other large tournaments in the USA. We support players in some of the billiard tournaments. We have dealers in most of the states in the USA. We also have international dealers in many countries. We have advertisements in the Billiards Digest, Billiard Retailer, Inside Pool, and the Pool & Billiard Magazine
John your description on the Sterling Website fits you very well, I could not have said it any better myself!!!!
The following description of John can be found on the link to the Sterling Website below!!!!!
http://www.sterling-gaming.com/about-us-t-3.html
John Barton came to us from Instroke Sports. Instroke Sports is the cue case company that John founded in 1991 in his Koblenz, Germany basement. John started playing pool in an Florida Boy's Club at the age of thirteen. Pool has always been a part of John's life throughout the various jobs he has held. He worked as a waiter, a factory line worker, a bar manager, a weather observer and a show diver before he started Instroke Sports. John really was the guy who set himself on fire and jumped from the high dive. Having sold Instroke in 2004, John joined Sterling as the "Minister of Propaganda" in November of 2004. John brings a wealth of knowledge and ideas to the Sterling team. Some of his JB-Ideas are off-the-wall and some of them improve our ability to provide better service. John helps to develop and evaluate new products, markets the products at shows, and makes beer runs when the mailings are done. As long as he doesn't go around setting himself on fire we'll keep him around.
Thanks for your post John, and I must say that your title as the Minister Of Propaganda fits very well!!!!
Take Care
Yes it does. The only thing is that you are foolish enough to take it literally.
I am not sure what you think that pasting the two company descriptions means but I do not read it to mean that J&J "owns" a cue making factory. Especially in this sense.
But even if they do own a cue factory that doesn't mean that the "sales and distribution" center is not a separate California company. In fact they are a distributor of billiard supplies in the same business as Sterling, CueStix, and Cue and Case Sales.
Please do not attribute things to me that I did not say. I did not say that J&J does not advertise. Advertising is not sponsorship. Nor is exhibiting at shows. But if you would like to count which company does more of either then you can certainly count Sterling as doing more shows with bigger booths as well as doing more advertising in more ways.
As for sponsorship of billiards I said that J&J does not do it in any significant way. That point is made by J&J's own statement where all they said this "We support players in some of the billiard tournaments."
Compared to what Sterling said about their sponsorship which was this,
"We sponsor and support the Fury Tour at over 1,000 pool rooms in 23 states across the U.S.A. Our support of many top players in the UPA and WPBA has given our dealers a wide range of exposure. We also take great pride in assisting with other tours and promoting the game among the youth of America. By working together with everyone in the business and playing a key part in growing the industry as a whole, we will be well positioned to capitalize on that growth, right along with the other people that are working to make it a better place."
I'd like to add that the statement about the Fury tour is no longer current as we ended our title sponsorship years ago of the tour that bore the Fury name. Currently however we sponsor the Blaze tour and many other events as well as just about every billiard related charity event that comes around. The list of players and events we have sponsored is very long.
How does Sterling Gaming further support their customers? Well we produce private label catalogs for any customer who wants them. We do this for a small fee for low volume customers and for free for stocking customers of sufficient size. We also provide turnkey websites for any dealer who wants one as well as providing web ready data disks for any retailer who wants to do their own website and sell our products.
I find it truly sad that your signature is "put your heart into America or get your ass out it" and you are going to such great lengths to discredit me and the company I work for who is an American success story that provides income for 14 American families and who puts a lot of their profits right back into growing billiards in America. You are doing this in favor of a company that according to you is not even an American company, and who puts next to nothing into pool (and I really mean NEXT to nothing).
What did Sterling do for consumers in the billiard world? Just before Christmas 2004 we rescued Inside Pool. Inside Pool was taking orders on their website and not delivering the products. They were behind with every major distributor whose products they had on their website and had taken around 2000 orders that were not delivered. Sterling Gaming's Scott Taylor and Matt Carter drove all night to go to Inside Pool's offices and speak with JR Calvert about how to fix their financial issues and allow JR Calvert to retain his core business of Inside Pool Magazine. The end result was that Sterling bought the Inside Pool website and assumed the task of taking care of as many customers as they could.
We set up our office to work until midnight or later each night until Christmas and started working the phones and emails. We delivered as many of the orders as we could out of our stock, helped the customers to obtain refunds for the orders we couldn't deliver such as products from other distributors, and helped customers obtain refunds for items they no longer wanted. We were responsible for delivering Christmas gifts to thousands of people who would not have gotten them otherwise. In addition Scott Taylor had a conversation with the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office to assure them that Sterling would take care of all of Inside Pool.com's customers and get them all satisfied which we did inside of two weeks. Thus JR Calvert and his staff were not prosecuted for interstate wire fraud.
End of part one.
John Barton
New member
What else has Sterling done for it's customers?
Days after Hurricane Katrina hit Scott Taylor decided that we were going to make a trip down to New Orleans to help one of our dealers and anyone else that we could along the way. We rented a van and stuffed it full of food and water and extra gas cans and a generator and got underway. We drove down there and made sure that our customer was ok, Scott wired his house, and two other neighbor's houses to their generator's so that they could have electricity throughout the house rather than just to the refrigerator.
Scott sat in the hot and humid sun for hours and fixed a family's alternator so that she could have transportation and then he left our generator there so that they could have some electricity. We rescued people stranded on the highway, we donated gas to the pizza place so that they could keep their generator going and keep making pizzas for the long line of folks who wanted a little normal back in their lives.
And this is just a little fraction of the type of company Sterling Gaming is.
I am damn proud to be part of it and be their Minister of Propaganda. I haven't been doing a good enough job though since you didn't know these things.
I find it really sad that you would like to tear us down because we don't offer a written warranty like other companies do and accuse us of being greedy profitmongers with low quality cues and yet you say you buy from J&J because of their low prices even though they don't offer a guarantee.
You spent a lot of time telling people to "be aware" of all sides before they make a purchase. I agree. As far as I can see it you would rather take the lazy way out and sell products that you can buy at a lower price which have no guarantee from a company that does nothing to bring more players into your pool room instead of cultivating a relationship with a company that supports pool and their dealers in myriad of ways.
The floor is yours.
Days after Hurricane Katrina hit Scott Taylor decided that we were going to make a trip down to New Orleans to help one of our dealers and anyone else that we could along the way. We rented a van and stuffed it full of food and water and extra gas cans and a generator and got underway. We drove down there and made sure that our customer was ok, Scott wired his house, and two other neighbor's houses to their generator's so that they could have electricity throughout the house rather than just to the refrigerator.
Scott sat in the hot and humid sun for hours and fixed a family's alternator so that she could have transportation and then he left our generator there so that they could have some electricity. We rescued people stranded on the highway, we donated gas to the pizza place so that they could keep their generator going and keep making pizzas for the long line of folks who wanted a little normal back in their lives.
And this is just a little fraction of the type of company Sterling Gaming is.
I am damn proud to be part of it and be their Minister of Propaganda. I haven't been doing a good enough job though since you didn't know these things.
I find it really sad that you would like to tear us down because we don't offer a written warranty like other companies do and accuse us of being greedy profitmongers with low quality cues and yet you say you buy from J&J because of their low prices even though they don't offer a guarantee.
You spent a lot of time telling people to "be aware" of all sides before they make a purchase. I agree. As far as I can see it you would rather take the lazy way out and sell products that you can buy at a lower price which have no guarantee from a company that does nothing to bring more players into your pool room instead of cultivating a relationship with a company that supports pool and their dealers in myriad of ways.
The floor is yours.
John Barton
New member
I don't know what J&J has told you or where you are getting your information but according to my information here J&J does not own any cue factory. I do not know which cue factory that they get their cues from other than I know it's not the same one our cues come from. I would bet a lot of money that the majority of their cues are now produced in China.
I do know that the majority of the cases that they sell are produced in China at the Long Chan factory.
But even if J&J did own their cue factory what difference does it make?
They still do not spend any real money to support and grow pool in America.
Last year Kao Kao spent $20,000 CASH to sponsor the BCA Generation Pool 9 Ball Tournament alongside Sterling Gaming's other sponsorship of the same event. Kao Kao put $20,000 CASH back into American pool in that event and I know that they have done similar things with their other customers to co-sponsor players and events.
I think its all a wash...sure some of the foreign quality is up there with something like McDermott, or a viking. But I'm not a big fan of those cues, I much prefer certain customs, if I go production im going schon or huebler. I just have a problem with production cues period, many just have a raunchy shaft with a horrible taper...and it strikes me as odd, the piss poor tapers they put on some of these actually descent cues.
I've picked up foreign cues, and american made production cues they might look good and even be solid as can be....but big thick fat splined shaft? Put a better taper on a cue and forget all the B.S. inlay/point work. Preadator, OB1, Tiger all those LD shaft companies wouldn't even have business if production cue companies didn't make such a sh***y shaft. It's always been in the shaft and always will be....JB I've never hit with one of your cues...how would you compare the fury lines shafts to those of McDermott and to say another production company such as schon? And I'm not including McDermotts special shafts the I1/2/3 or predator or tiger x no special after market items, or add ons.
It's the shaft,
Grey Ghost
I've picked up foreign cues, and american made production cues they might look good and even be solid as can be....but big thick fat splined shaft? Put a better taper on a cue and forget all the B.S. inlay/point work. Preadator, OB1, Tiger all those LD shaft companies wouldn't even have business if production cue companies didn't make such a sh***y shaft. It's always been in the shaft and always will be....JB I've never hit with one of your cues...how would you compare the fury lines shafts to those of McDermott and to say another production company such as schon? And I'm not including McDermotts special shafts the I1/2/3 or predator or tiger x no special after market items, or add ons.
It's the shaft,
Grey Ghost
John Barton
New member
On the Fury I'd compare the hit to a Schon but with just a bit higher pitch. The taper is very close to the Schon taper. Fury cues have also undergone several changes over the years.
They now have phenolic inserts in the shafts. All the new ones being made now will have Juma ferrules, handles are laminated. Our shafts are grade A for the lower end of the Fury lines and AA Grade for the upper end. I have been told by the owner of the factory that out of 60,000 shaft blanks only 300 on average are graded AA.
My current Fury has a phenolic joint with a flat faced radial pin. The taper is slightly longer than a Schon and it hits like my favorite Olivier that Jerry made for me years ago. I prefer big pin flat faced cues. I am using the new shaft with the Juma ferrule. However the older shafts with the Ivorine III ferrules play great as well.
The hit is crisp and solid. I don't like the stock Tweeten Le Pro tips though nor the Tiger Snipers that will be standard on all current and future Fury cues. So I change mine to a tip called a Black Diamond that was given to me by a guy from Korea. It's an 11 layer laminated tip that feels pretty good to me.
I have five Fury shafts that I carry in my case, each one is slightly different for me to test. One of my favorites actually is one I had the factory make that is 28" long instead of 29" with the same taper. I LOVE how that shaft plays. It reminds me a little bit of my Cognoscenti but without the same balance as the Cog.
I guess the best thing I personally can say about the hit is that if I am at an event and someone wants to gamble I have no qualms about picking a Fury off the wall in the weight I like and getting down to play.
Bob Romano, Eydie Romano's husband came to me at Valley Forge in '08 and asked if we had a cue he could borrow to go and shoot a mini-tournament with as he didn't want to go up to his room. He came back an hour or so later with the $200 Fury demo cue and said it hit better than his $2000 custom cue. I didn't ask him which brand of custom cue he had.
He also said he won.
I also forgot to mention that we just had a player from Canada visit us and she tried the Fury Evolution cues and put down her Predator with an OB1 shaft (There is an ironic combination for you) and her Schon to play with two Fury Evolutions. She bought one to play with and one to break with. Her name is Veronique Menard and she is the former Canadian champion and is spending time now getting back onto the WPBA tour.
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John, you are very good at twisting what people say and wasting bandwidth. Unlike you I do not have to type pages of fluffed comments in an attempt to Cloud the issues at Hand. Sir you are not fooling anyone, and all the Pm's I am receiving show this to be true.
Continue to post your Propaganda John that is what you do best, Like you have clearly shown you have no knowledge of J & J America, and no their cues and cases are not made in China, they are made in Taiwan and that is the Headquarters for J & J America.
The thing I find very amusing is that the US Company you support has you listed as the Propaganda Minister, and you live and work in a communist country
. Maybe you should try putting your Heart in America John, don't set yourself on fire over this, it is nothing personal only my opinion and the opinion of many others!!!!!!!I gave you a chance to interject your knowledge in this thread and I answered your questions. But like before you have started with your personal attacks and you continue to take what others say out of context. So, no matter what you have to say from this point forward I will not answer any of your posts until you can act like something other than a propaganda minister who spews baseless comments.
For those unsure of the literal meaning of the word Propaganda:
Propaganda
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Propaganda is communication aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
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Thanks very much for the post, if I may ask what diameter shaft do you normally use?
Thanks
I now use my stock shaft on my custom huebler as my main player and is 13mm. My favorite shaft I ever had was a flat laminate weinstock at 12.5 it was the nuts. I've played with predator, OB1, Tiger-x and they are all good shafts too. None really better than the other, and none beat that weinstock bar none. Know why? THE TAPER!!!! (Can you guys hear the angels sing)
Well from your above comments it seems Fury has a pretty descent shaft...or at least it should. I don't do nothin fancy, aint got anything fancy and I don't ask for much but if the taper is bad the cue is bad I don't care how pretty, how well manufactured, how many inlays. Matter of fact as im sure DPK would say...its all in the taper. All of it its almost the only thing that matters.
Grey Ghost
Hang on folks! Here we go again. "China Cue Wars 2":thumbup:
John Barton
New member
John, you are very good at twisting what people say and wasting bandwidth. Unlike you I do not have to type pages of fluffed comments in an attempt to Cloud the issues at Hand. Sir you are not fooling anyone, and all the Pm's I am receiving show this to be true.
Continue to post your Propaganda John that is what you do best, Like you have clearly shown you have no knowledge of J & J America, and no their cues and cases are not made in China, they are made in Taiwan and that is the Headquarters for J & J America.
The thing I find very amusing is that the US Company you support has you listed as the Propaganda Minister, and you live and work in a communist country
I gave you a chance to interject your knowledge in this thread and I answered your questions. But like before you have started with your personal attacks and you continue to take what others say out of context. So, no matter what you have to say from this point forward I will not answer any of your posts until you can act like something other than a propaganda minister who spews baseless comments.
For those unsure of the literal meaning of the word Propaganda:
Propaganda
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Propaganda is communication aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
Dear Mr. Rittel,
You are a cue maker. I mean you have made a few cues. You also repair cues.
You also sell cues, both with and without a warranty.
You say that you post in the interest of giving unbiased information yet you tout only the companies whose products you sell.
You accuse companies who don't offer a warranty as being greedy yet you promote a company that doesn't offer a warranty.
The difference between quality and value has been pointed out to you clearly and yet you still refuse to acknowledge that you are wrong.
I pointed out to you that Sterling Gaming, one of the companies you accuse of being greedy and selling low quality cues, does in fact put a lot of money back in to the sport.
I further made the statement that Sterling Gaming backs up it's dealers and products in ways that meet or surpass the written warranties currently out there and has done so for it's entire existence.
You chose to take a silly title and make it literal so I gave you a dose of it. Because you see when you want to malign Sterling Gaming and promote J&J then you should have some facts about what each company does in the billiards industry and for the game.
If you have anything that disproves anything I have said about Sterling then feel free to share it with us. Post the content of these PMs you say you have been getting. You can do that without revealing the author.
But until then you should try really hard to stop picking on things like joke titles and taking them literally as a way to attempt to divert people away from your main points.
Those points are, if I am correct, that the importer is responsible for the quality of the cues they import and that a warranty means automatically that cues with a warranty are of better quality than those without one.
1. We all agree that the importer is responsible for the quality of the cues they sell.
2. We don't agree that a warranty equals good quality.
Speaking of a missed opportunity I gave you one in the "What makes a good cue thread" to offer your criteria in order to help compile a list that would be of benefit to all consumers. You chose to bring politics and insults into that thread rather than simply give us your knowledge on the subject.
Other than that I will let Jessie type the only sort of response that you seem to understand:
Jessie Barton, 6 months olds says to you;
fw5t5a4B Y7NMJ7W jtyfdrzeQE2465T9[-78i0ppvmxkj5yk56lyv
;qkhsm , oaWWWWWWWWWWWWWiNNJGGGU Nm
John Barton
New member
That is the gospel truth. If the taper sucks then for me the cue is worthless as well.
Anything I say on here doesn't really mean a thing until you get a chance to see the cues for yourself in person.
Then you can see if I am full of crap or know what I am talking about. Whenever someone asks me at a show how a cue hits I just hand them the cue and tell them to go play with it.
What model Huebler do you have, I love Paul's work I have known him personally since the 1970's. In fact I, grew up in Missouri and I sold his cues until production ceased not long ago. But, based on your requirements for shafts I can see why you are using a different shaft on your Huebler. Paul's shaft's were generally a little over 13mm and they had a stiffer consonant taper.
Oh and by the way Ghost, I am not trying to sell anything in this thread unlike others, I am only looking for views, thanks very much for your's.
Take Care Ghost, watch out for the Propaganda Minister he always has something for sale!!!
:thumbup:
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I'll be looking out for one, I'll definitely let you know what I think when I get to drive the cue around
G.G.
just one question that came to my mind when I was reading this thread:
>why do people buy import cues? I ain't talkin about $99 cues and lower I'm talking about $100+ cues.There are always a possibility to buy a low end viking,shmelke,joss...
moreover, they look much better, not only the finishing but their design is much more tasteful(even cues with stickers and overlays). I mean, don't you think that import cues' ad is better?
thanks
Yan
>why do people buy import cues? I ain't talkin about $99 cues and lower I'm talking about $100+ cues.There are always a possibility to buy a low end viking,shmelke,joss...
moreover, they look much better, not only the finishing but their design is much more tasteful(even cues with stickers and overlays). I mean, don't you think that import cues' ad is better?
thanks
Yan
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