Who makes a low deflection shaft that isn't laminated?

My comments short and to the point regarding QP cues.

I own one. Plays great. Amazing craftsmanship. I have the low deflection old growth submerged wood shafts. As low or lower deflection than Pred. shafts. Cue hits firm with low deflection and great feedback.

I have been to Ronnies shop and played many hours with Ronnie on his custom made table. He made the table also! Yes Efren knows Ronnie and has one of his cues. Efren has also played many times on Ronnies table. Efren use to practice there before playing in USA matches as the table is USA spec cloth and banks. Tables in the PI are anything but standard..haha. Most pros want money to use/play with their cues. Ronnie is small cue maker and dont/wont pay someone to play with his cue.

Need more info on QP cues...PM me.

Cheers
 
jondroms,

First let me correct you. OB Cues, maker of the OB-1 and OB-2 cue shafts and the soon to be announced Break Shaft, has never implied or stated that the lamination process that we use is the reason our cue shafts are low cue ball deflection. Low cue ball deflection is the result of low Tip End Mass, and nothing else.

Also, the OB Cue Shafts do not have foam in the tip end of the cue shaft. The tip end of our cue shafts are filled with Balsa wood, and the remainder of the cue shaft is filled with a Silicone Foam Rubber for dampening vibration.

I certainly don't mean this in a harsh way toward you, I just want to correct the misconceptions.

Now, As far as other low deflection shafts go, remember, you can't get to really low deflection with a solid maple shaft end unless you don't have a ferrule at all, and the tip size is very very small, like 8 or 9mm. (Ask Bob Jewett). Also, for all those cue makers out there that have been boring out there cue shafts, you are violating Predator's patent. Many have received cease and desist letters! A couple of them that I know of have been listed on here before! One cue maker actually went to court over it and lost to Predator!

While you can certainly reduce cue ball deflection by using shorter ferrules made of lighter materials, it just doesn't get as low as the OB Shafts or the Predator shafts. There's no magic here, mass is mass.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
Does anyone remember the Yak XD shaft? They were the creation of Dan Goble, and they performed better than any of the shafts listed in the Platinum Billiards comparison chart that jforney36 posted the link to. Dan's not making cues or shafts any longer, but there are still some people using his shafts and wanting more of them. His website was on my webserver. It's not active any longer, but I moved it over to one of my websites so you can take a look at it. Look at the test restults. On the second link, there are some videos.

http://www.okwinners.com/yakxd

http://www.okwinners.com/yakxd/deflection.htm


Yak XD shafts are not laminated. They are not maple. They have a different taper.

Ron
 
Ron,

In the first video he cues down. the line, but makes a slight swipe of the cue tip across the ball, the stroke is not straight through the ball, but it is close.

In the second video, of the YAK shaft, not only does he not cue down the line, he makes a much larger swipe across the line of aim when he cues the ball. This shaft squirts the cue ball more than his claims, he just compensates with his line of aim.

His test machine elevates the cue quite a bit, bringing swerve into the equation. I would be curious to see the test results with a level cue. This is only possible if you remove the end rail from the table, but it does virtually eliminate the swerve component in this equation.

Although I have never hit with one of the YAK shafts, I would love the opportunity. I don't believe it is low deflection based on the videos you provided, but I would like to see for myself. There may be something there!


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
Granted, hitting them by hand will not be consistent. I think that's why he didn't have those as a link on the finished website. I just put them up for info purposes.

As for the robot hitting down, it's correct that you can't hit straight through on any table, but the hit is the same for all shafts and every shot. There were many shots taken and the results were the same. The test results page shows the results.


Ron
 
Ron,

Yes, the machine will hit all shafts the same, but the results will not be about deflection. The cue shafts that spin the ball more will show less deflection due to swerve, the cue ball curving back towards the line of aim because of the Masse affect.

Also, in the text about the YAK shaft it is mentioned that the deflection, or squirt, is more when you hit the ball hard than it is when you it soft. This is not true. In fact, Dr. Dave has shown that the line of deflection or squirt almost doesn't change at all based on the speed of the hit.

The fact is that Tip End Mass is, by leaps and bounds, the primary factor in deflection or cue ball squirt, and the YAK shaft makes no claims or references to reducing Tip End Mass. Without reducing TEM, you can't make a cue shaft that is "Really Low Deflection".


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
Don't forget to factor in the curvature of the earth, or do you reject that concept too.

I didn't put up the links to argue, just for info. Without seeing one of the shafts or knowing anything much about them, you have decided they don't work. Very perceptive of you.

If you would actually like to try one, talk with Eduardo Roldan if you run across him at a tournament sometime. Ed shoots with one and I think he still has a few of them to sell.

Regards,

Ron
 
a question

Royce,

I haven't whittled on one of your shafts to see how big the balsa dowel is in the end of your shafts but I agree mass is mass. It is much easier to reduce mass of a cylinder by reducing the outside diameter than lightening the center of the cylinder. According to a quick look at the numbers it looks to me like a 9mm shaft has a little less than half the mass of a 12.75mm shaft. Are you saying that your OB shafts have less than half the end mass of a standard shaft for the first few inches from the tip?

Hu



RBC said:
jondroms,

First let me correct you. OB Cues, maker of the OB-1 and OB-2 cue shafts and the soon to be announced Break Shaft, has never implied or stated that the lamination process that we use is the reason our cue shafts are low cue ball deflection. Low cue ball deflection is the result of low Tip End Mass, and nothing else.

Also, the OB Cue Shafts do not have foam in the tip end of the cue shaft. The tip end of our cue shafts are filled with Balsa wood, and the remainder of the cue shaft is filled with a Silicone Foam Rubber for dampening vibration.

I certainly don't mean this in a harsh way toward you, I just want to correct the misconceptions.

Now, As far as other low deflection shafts go, remember, you can't get to really low deflection with a solid maple shaft end unless you don't have a ferrule at all, and the tip size is very very small, like 8 or 9mm. (Ask Bob Jewett). Also, for all those cue makers out there that have been boring out there cue shafts, you are violating Predator's patent. Many have received cease and desist letters! A couple of them that I know of have been listed on here before! One cue maker actually went to court over it and lost to Predator!

While you can certainly reduce cue ball deflection by using shorter ferrules made of lighter materials, it just doesn't get as low as the OB Shafts or the Predator shafts. There's no magic here, mass is mass.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...
 
Ron,

Actually, I did not argue with you at all.

All I did was look at the videos that you posted and take issue with claims they make that I believe to be incorrect. I am sorry if that offends you, that was and is not my intention.

I am interested in these cue shafts. I am interested in all cue shafts that talk about low deflection. This business is how I make my living. I will try to get in touch with Eduardo Roldan to see if he has any more of them. I might buy one from him to test. Do you think he will be at the Derby City?


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
Shootingarts

Thanks for your comments, and what you add to this thread and this forum.

I haven't done the math in a little while, but your numbers do sound correct. I am not in the office, so I don't have my spreadsheets readily available to calculate the tip end mass differences, but your assessment that 1mm of material removed from the outside is more mass than 1mm removed from the inside is absolutely true. The trick is to come up with a conventional sized cue shaft that has low tip end mass, has a good solid feel, is economical to manufacture, and that people want to buy.

In my first post, I mentioned Bob Jewett. The reason for this is that Bob plays with a very small shaft with no ferrule. According to his claims, and I do believe he knows what he is talking about, it is very low deflection. Now, not everyone can and should play with a 9mm shaft with no ferrule, but Bob does.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
RBC said:
Ron,

Actually, I did not argue with you at all.

All I did was look at the videos that you posted and take issue with claims they make that I believe to be incorrect. I am sorry if that offends you, that was and is not my intention.

I am interested in these cue shafts. I am interested in all cue shafts that talk about low deflection. This business is how I make my living. I will try to get in touch with Eduardo Roldan to see if he has any more of them. I might buy one from him to test. Do you think he will be at the Derby City?


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...

Don't know about the DCC. I met Ed once at Dan's house and haven't seen him in a good while. You might also give Dan a call. His number is on the website somewhere.

You mentioned that a LD shaft needs to have low end tip mass... I have a Yak shaft on a Prather cue and the stock shaft from Prather weighs 4.4 oz. My Yak shaft for the same cue weights 2.5 oz.

As for the results, I just thought it was interesting that noone on the comparison sheet comes close to what I have seen with the Yak.
 
Last edited:
Thanks!

Royce,

Thanks for your reply. As you mentioned there is much more to a shaft than low deflection and all of the other things needed to please the market are what make a very small diameter shaft or one made from something other than wood impractical.

Hu



RBC said:
Shootingarts

Thanks for your comments, and what you add to this thread and this forum.

I haven't done the math in a little while, but your numbers do sound correct. I am not in the office, so I don't have my spreadsheets readily available to calculate the tip end mass differences, but your assessment that 1mm of material removed from the outside is more mass than 1mm removed from the inside is absolutely true. The trick is to come up with a conventional sized cue shaft that has low tip end mass, has a good solid feel, is economical to manufacture, and that people want to buy.

In my first post, I mentioned Bob Jewett. The reason for this is that Bob plays with a very small shaft with no ferrule. According to his claims, and I do believe he knows what he is talking about, it is very low deflection. Now, not everyone can and should play with a 9mm shaft with no ferrule, but Bob does.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...
 
Ron,

Wow! 2.5 ounces is very light. See, that's one more reason I would like to get one!

I wonder how he reduced the weight, the shaft looks like it is maple, and of regular dimensions? It does have a ferrule.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
Total shaft weight does not mean it is necessarily LD.
I have made a shaft that weighed 62 grams.But I put a Brass ferrule on it.
It looked nice, but the play compared to a lighter ferrule was not as good.
The brass ferrule added 6 grams,and it was noticable.
The shaft played better when the total weight was 56 grams. 6 grams came off the area that mattered most, the tip.

Neil
 
I have been playing with the Vigor shaft for over a year now. You will be hearing a lot more about these shafts in early 09. They are defo one of the best hitting shafts out there and I am not the only pro players using them. I have been working with KF and we have improved the shafts over the last year with input form pro players not just people making the shafts.

If anyone is interested I do sell them for under $200 which is cheaper than all the other shafts out there. They come with a great hitting tip as well.

Thanks
Tony crosby
 
Any cue maker can take a standard shaft and make it low deflection. I have experimented with the process for more than two years, and I have found a number techniques that work. I have read this thread and I have to agree with some of the comments and I have to laugh at others, but I am singling no one out in any way. One thing I will say is that to make a shaft low deflection it certainly doesn't require any type of lamination at all. All that is necessary to make a good low deflection shaft, is to lighten the front 8 inches of the shaft, by coring and introducing a lighter material into the cavity, along with a light ferrule assemble.

All I will say is experiment experiment experiment, and all problems will have solutions!:smile:
 
manwon said:
Any cue maker can take a standard shaft and make it low deflection. I have experimented with the process for more than two years, and I have found a number techniques that work. I have read this thread and I have to agree with some of the comments and I have to laugh at others, but I am singling no one out in any way. One thing I will say is that to make a shaft low deflection it certainly doesn't require any type of lamination at all. All that is necessary to make a good low deflection shaft, is to lighten the front 8 inches of the shaft, by coring and introducing a lighter material into the cavity, along with a light ferrule assemble.

All I will say is experiment experiment experiment, and all problems will have solutions!:smile:
Click to expand...

Have you found the way for a shaft that has been modified the way you suggest to have the same or similar feel and hit as an unmodified shaft?

Flex
 
Flex said:
Have you found the way for a shaft that has been modified the way you suggest to have the same or similar feel and hit as an unmodified shaft?

Flex
Click to expand...


MasonH can make you a shaft that has lower deflection and feels jst like it should ;)
 
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