Who was/is best all around pool player, still alive today?

[pt109]

Still alive... all around pool player: Dennis O., Busti and Efren
Still alive... all around billard player: Efren....without a shadow of a doubt

Torbjörn Blomdahl wins in the billiard category.
He had a contest with Efren and won the nine ball part also...
...Blomdahl has also ran a century at snooker.
Efren will dominate eventually on a pool table, but never on a carom table.

 

[Valiant Thor]

Best player

Earl "the pearl" strickland

 

[klone]

All around king would be Efren for sure. And IMO only Alex P. comes close to having the same style and creativity of Efren. Maybe Corey D. too.

But what sets Efren apart from all the other great players is that after he came to America to compete and gamble, he elevated the game to another level. I gets chills every time watching that old video of his famous Z-shot against Earl.

He’s like that Google AI AlphaGo which defeated the top human Go player and forced everyone else to rethink and study deeper into the game.

 

[KRJ]

Not many people know the story of Nick Varner & Efren Reyes. In 1990 everyone was talking about Reyes being the greatest player and invited anyone to travel to the Philippines to play him. So Varner traveled there and played Efren in his home poolroom and the table Efren plays on race to 60 for 30k. Varner put up his own money with no backer and Efren had about 20 people put up his stake.Varner beat Efren 60-31. Its amazing Varner was never invited back but when you win by 29 games it certainly wasn't luck.

Anyways my greatest all around picks of all time.
Past: Wimpy Lassiter / Eddie Taylor / Mizerak
Alive: Sigel / Varner / Reyes
Current: Van Boening / Orcollo / Shaw

That's awesome story, glad to hear it. Varner doesn't get the respect he deserves. Best all around player ever imho. But, there is always arguments from different era's, so he's at least in the top 3, in no particular order.

I'm gonna see Nick next week, I owe him a Mexican dinner, and I'm going to ask him about this story, because it is one I never heard before. I'm guessing this is one he'll never forget

 

[Cornerman]

All around in their prime?

Nick Varner and Mike Sigel. I can’t honestly say that Efren was better than those two.

I think what Sigel accomplished really escapes most players who simply didn’t see him. When the game was transitioning from 14.1 to 9-ball, he dominated the tournament scene in both disciplines without missing a beat. There weren’t many one pocket tournaments, yet Sigel has a major tournament win.

The reason why we say that Varner has World Championships in 5 disciplines is because we include Grady Matthews’s World Bank Pool Championships held in Maine in November with 50 entrants, and we include the Derby City Bank Pool Division in 1999. That’s two “world championships” that might not stand the litmus test for many.

Nothing to sneeze at for Varner, my favorite player, but a little eye brow raising.

Efren clearly is the best at one pocket, and dominated the DCC all-around, but by the time DCC started, Sigel had quit the game years earlier, and Nick was on the slow down.

 

[PoolBum]

That's awesome story, glad to hear it. Varner doesn't get the respect he deserves. Best all around player ever imho. But, there is always arguments from different era's, so he's at least in the top 3, in no particular order.

I'm gonna see Nick next week, I owe him a Mexican dinner, and I'm going to ask him about this story, because it is one I never heard before. I'm guessing this is one he'll never forget

You are obligated to report back to us after you talk to Nick.

 

[KRJ]

All around in their prime?

Nick Varner and Mike Sigel. I can’t honestly say that Efren was better than those two.

I think what Sigel accomplished really escapes most players who simply didn’t see him. When the game was transitioning from 14.1 to 9-ball, he dominated the tournament scene in both disciplines without missing a beat. There weren’t many one pocket tournaments, yet Sigel has a major tournament win.

The reason why we say that Varner has World Championships in 5 disciplines is because we include Grady Matthews’s World Bank Pool Championships held in Maine in November with 50 entrants, and we include the Derby City Bank Pool Division in 1999. That’s two “world championships” that might not stand the litmus test for many.

Nothing to sneeze at for Varner, my favorite player, but a little eye brow raising.

Efren clearly is the best at one pocket, and dominated the DCC all-around, but by the time DCC started, Sigel had quit the game years earlier, and Nick was on the slow down.

Good post. But, DCC Banks Division might "not" pass the litmus test. I mean, he did manage to "sneak" by Efren, Spaeth, Crane, Daulton, Pirca and a few others

 

[jay helfert]

I would remind you that Mike Sigel and Nick Varner played during the prime of Buddy Hall, Earl Strickland, Jose Parica, Efren Reyes, Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe, Kim Davenport, David Howard, Dallas West, Ray Martin,
wade Crane, Jimmy Fusco, STEVE MIZERAK, Jim Mataya, Jimmy Marino, Jim Reid and many others. The major events were typically full 64 man fields, with maybe eight to ten guys who didn't belong in there with the big boys. In other words the fields were very competitive! Lesser players would include guys like Jeff Carter, Scott Kitto, Mike Massey, Steve Gumphrey, Dave Matlock and Rudolpho Luat, all of them capable of beating anyone in a given match. There were at least a dozen other guys who played a similar speed.

With so many good players, it was hard for someone to be dominant, just like when Jack Nicklaus was in his prime, he didn't win them all. What made Sigel stand out was that when he did reach the finals no one could beat him. In fact he won eleven final matches in a row at one time (not eleven successive tournaments!). Earl may well have been the best 9-Ball player of this era, but he was a One Trick Pony, not playing much One Pocket or 14.1, if at all. Meanwhile Mike and Nick, along with Mizerak dominated these other two pool disciplines, winning just about all the major events contested in both of them. In fairness, Mizerak was the number one guy at 14.1 for many years and he beat Mike and Nick most of the time. Steve also played great 9-Ball and One Pocket, so he would be a contender for the best all around as well. But as Steve gained weight his game began to slip, more and more.

What set Mike and Nick apart, was their long time consistency at the top of the game. Buddy was another great all around player, excelling at 9-Ball, Banks and One Pocket. The only game he rarely played was 14.1. In fact, if you add in Bar Table events, Buddy moves to the top of the list. He won more small table tournaments than anyone ever! He and Steve Mizerak are two others I would favor over Efren in an All Around in their prime. Efren's 9-Ball game was always suspect, even after he won in Houston. It took him years to win another tournament! He was to become a great One Pocket player and could play Banks at a high level (just not the highest). He rarely, if ever, played 14.1. IMO to be a great player, you must be able to play 14.1 at a high level also. To Efren's credit he became a good player at games like Three Cushions and Snooker. Not great, but damn good anyway.

Mike had more years on top than Nick, pretty much every year he played. Nick's career was more up and down, with a few great years. They were best friends and business partners as well. I would take those two against any other two you would like to name. Nick brought out the best in Mike and Mike made Nick a better player.

If I were to rank the best All Around players I've seen in my lifetime it would go something like this:
1. Harold Worst (Great at all games, including Three Cushions, Snooker and Pool!)
2. Mike Sigel
3. Nick Varner
4. Steve Mizerak
5. Dennis Orcollo
6. Efren Reyes
7. Ed Kelly
8. Buddy Hall
9. Jim Rempe
10. Jack Breit
11. Allen Hopkins
12. Jimmy Fusco

 

[PoolBum]

I think what Sigel accomplished really escapes most players who simply didn’t see him. When the game was transitioning from 14.1 to 9-ball, he dominated the tournament scene in both disciplines without missing a beat.

And if you just look at what were the two championship games in pocket billiards during the 20th century, 14.1 and 9-ball, I think the argument for Sigel is even stronger.

 

[JoeyA]

••••• ouch •••••

To provide further detail to your true story, I called Nick to get a little more information about how Nick beat Efren Reyes in this match in the Philippines and here is a sweet bit of information that most people don't know.

On the last day of the match between Nick and Efren, NICK put THREE 6 packs and ONE 5 pack on Efren.

JoeyA

Not many people know the story of Nick Varner & Efren Reyes. In 1990 everyone was talking about Reyes being the greatest player and invited anyone to travel to the Philippines to play him. So Varner traveled there and played Efren in his home poolroom and the table Efren plays on race to 60 for 30k. Varner put up his own money with no backer and Efren had about 20 people put up his stake.Varner beat Efren 60-31. Its amazing Varner was never invited back but when you win by 29 games it certainly wasn't luck.

Anyways my greatest all around picks of all time.
Past: Wimpy Lassiter / Eddie Taylor / Mizerak
Alive: Sigel / Varner / Reyes
Current: Van Boening / Orcollo / Shaw

 

[JoeyA]

••••• nick varner ••••••

Furthermore, Nick Varner has more TITLES & WINS than you can shake a stick at.

Career Wins

1975
Midwest Open 9-Ball Galesburg,IL

1977
Texas Open 14.1
Austin, Texas

1980
~World Open14.1~ (PPPA)
New YorkCity
BCA National8-Ball Championship Columbus,OH Kentucky DerbyOpen
9-Ball
Louisville,KY
Illinois 9-Ball Open
Decatur,IL
BCA 8-BallQualifier
Russellville,KY
1981
Kentucky Open9-Ball
Bowling Green,KY
1982
~World9-Ball Championship~ (PPPA)(ABCSports)
Wide World of Sports
Atlantic City,NJ Kentucky Open9-Ball Bowling Green,KY
Bowling Green Open, Bank
Bowling Green, KY

Prestonsburg Open 9-Ball Prestonsburg, KY
Bowling Green Open 9-Ball Bowling Green, KY
Owensboro Open 9-Ball
Owensboro, KY
1983
McDermott Masters Champion 9-Ball Milwaukee, WI
San Jose Open 9-Ball San Jose, CA
Kentucky Open 9-Ball Bowling Green, KY
National Open 9-Ball Indianapolis, IN
Fresno Open 9-Ball Fresno, CA
1984
Kentucky Open 9-Ball Bowling Green, KY
Tennessee State 9-Ball Chattanooga, TN
1985
Tennessee State 9-Ball Chattanooga, TN
Zurich Open 9-Ball Zurich, Switzerland

1986
~World Championship 14.1~
(PPPA)
Philadelphia, PA (ESPN)
Charlotte Open Charlotte, NC
Sacramento Open 9-Ball Sacramento, CA
Midwest Open 9-Ball Madison, WI


1987
McDermott Masters 9-Ball
Davenport, IA

1988
Glass City Open 9-Ball
Toledo, OH
Scranton Invitational 9-Ball
Scranton, PA
Tennessee State 9-Ball Chattanooga, TN
Sands Regent 9-Ball Reno, NV

1989
~MPBA Brunswick World Championship~
Las Vegas, NV (ESPN)
Rak’em up 9-Ball Classic Columbia, SC
Knoxville 9-Ball Open Knoxville, TN
Governors Cup 9-Ball Columbus, OH
Glass City Open 9-Ball
Toledo, OH
Sand Regent 9-Ball Open
Reno, NV
Golden 8-Ball Invitational
Phoenix, AZ
Scranton Open 9-Ball Scranton, PA
Lexington All Star Open
Lexington, KY
Akron Open 9-Ball Akron, OH
US Open 9-Ball
Norfolk, VA


1990
World Series Championship
Manila, Philippines
Challenge Match 9-Ball
Nick Varner vs. Efren Reyes 9-Ball 60-47
Al Romero Classic 9-Ball
Los Angeles, CA
US Open 9-Ball Norfolk, VA
West End All Around Shoot Out Elizabeth, NJ

1991
Rak’em Up 9-Ball
Columbia, SC

1992
Super Bowl XXVI Billiard Championship (ESPN) Minneapolis, MN
Legends of One Pocket
International One Pocket Tour
Washington, DC

1993
Lexington All Star Open
Lexington, KY

1994
~World 8-Ball Championship~ Toledo, OH (ESPN)
Challenge of Champions Las Vegas, NV (ESPN)
Lexington All Star Open Lexington, KY

"In 1989, Nick Varner set the standard by which all future champions will have to measure their success.
The little man from Owensboro, Kentucky, won everything in sight in
1989-including eight Men's Professional Billiard Association titles."
Steve Mizerak
1996
Sands Regent 9-Ball Camel Pro Billiards Series Reno, NV
J.O.B 1-Pocket
Nashville, TN
1-Pocket Open
Arlington, VA
9-Ball
Lexington, KY

1997
Mosconi Cup Team America London, England (Sky Sports)
J.O.B 9-Ball
Nashville, TN
Sands Regent 9-Ball Open
Reno, NV

1998
Mosconi Cup Team America
London, England (Sky Sports)


1999
~WPA World 9-Ball Champion~ Alicante, Spain (Spanish TV)
~World Championship 9-Ball Bank~ Louisville, KY
Steve Mizerak Tulsa Senior Open 9-Ball
Tulsa, OK


2000
~World 1-Pocket Championship~
Portland, Maine
Derby City Classic
1-Pocket
Louisville, KY
Steve Mizerak Senior
Masters Open 9-Ball
Tampa, FL

2001
Mosconi Cup
Team America
London, England
(Sky Sports)
Superman Open
Metropolis, IL
Sunshine State
1- Pocket Tour
Kiss Shot Billiards
Jupiter, FL
Sunshine State
1-Pocket Tour
Capone’s Billiards
Spring Hill, FL
Sunshine State
1-Pocket Tour
Sharp Shooters
Miami, FL
Hard Times 1-Pocket
Sacramento, CA

2002
Border Battle
Team America VS Team Canada
Toronto, Canada (TSN TV)
Patriot Cup
North VS South
Tampa, FL
Jacksonville 9-Ball Open
Jacksonville, FL
Glass City Open
Toledo, Ohio

2003
Pechauer 9-Ball Stop #7
Renton, WA
Mosconi Cup
Team America
Team Captain
Las Vegas, NV
Border Battle
Team America VS Team Canada
(TSN TV)

2004
Border Battle
Team America VS Team Canada
(TSN TV)

2007
Great Southern 9-Ball Tour
Big Orange Classic VI
Knoxville, TN

2014
Durbin Cup
Sullivan, IL

To provide further detail to your true story, I called Nick to get a little more information about how Nick beat Efren Reyes in this match in the Philippines and here is a sweet bit of information that most people don't know.

On the last day of the match between Nick and Efren, NICK put THREE 6 packs and ONE 5 pack on Efren.

JoeyA

 

[PoolBum]

On the last day of the match between Nick and Efren, NICK put THREE 6 packs and ONE 5 pack on Efren.

JoeyA

Amazing that Nick was able to play that well after drinking that much.

 

[alstl]

I'd say Efren. His one pocket wins at DCC are unlikely to ever be matched. Won the US Open 9 ball. Won a 14.1 tournament vs world champions. Finished high in DCC banks. Plays 3 cushion at a respectable level.


Orcollo, Van Boening, Lassiter, Pagulayan, Bustamante, Strickland, Sigel, Immonen, Hohmann the list goes on and on for players who excel at a high level at multiple games.

 

[Koop]

I would remind you that Mike Sigel and Nick Varner played during the prime of Buddy Hall, Earl Strickland, Jose Parica, Efren Reyes, Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe, Kim Davenport, David Howard, Dallas West, Ray Martin,
wade Crane, Jimmy Fusco, STEVE MIZERAK, Jim Mataya, Jimmy Marino, Jim Reid and many others. The major events were typically full 64 man fields, with maybe eight to ten guys who didn't belong in there with the big boys. In other words the fields were very competitive! Lesser players would include guys like Jeff Carter, Scott Kitto, Mike Massey, Steve Gumphrey, Dave Matlock and Rudolpho Luat, all of them capable of beating anyone in a given match. There were at least a dozen other guys who played a similar speed.

With so many good players, it was hard for someone to be dominant, just like when Jack Nicklaus was in his prime, he didn't win them all. What made Sigel stand out was that when he did reach the finals no one could beat him. In fact he won eleven final matches in a row at one time (not eleven successive tournaments!). Earl may well have been the best 9-Ball player of this era, but he was a One Trick Pony, not playing much One Pocket or 14.1, if at all. Meanwhile Mike and Nick, along with Mizerak dominated these other two pool disciplines, winning just about all the major events contested in both of them. In fairness, Mizerak was the number one guy at 14.1 for many years and he beat Mike and Nick most of the time. Steve also played great 9-Ball and One Pocket, so he would be a contender for the best all around as well. But as Steve gained weight his game began to slip, more and more.

What set Mike and Nick apart, was their long time consistency at the top of the game. Buddy was another great all around player, excelling at 9-Ball, Banks and One Pocket. The only game he rarely played was 14.1. In fact, if you add in Bar Table events, Buddy moves to the top of the list. He won more small table tournaments than anyone ever! He and Steve Mizerak are two others I would favor over Efren in an All Around in their prime. Efren's 9-Ball game was always suspect, even after he won in Houston. It took him years to win another tournament! He was to become a great One Pocket player and could play Banks at a high level (just not the highest). He rarely, if ever, played 14.1. IMO to be a great player, you must be able to play 14.1 at a high level also. To Efren's credit he became a good player at games like Three Cushions and Snooker. Not great, but damn good anyway.

Mike had more years on top than Nick, pretty much every year he played. Nick's career was more up and down, with a few great years. They were best friends and business partners as well. I would take those two against any other two you would like to name. Nick brought out the best in Mike and Mike made Nick a better player.

If I were to rank the best All Around players I've seen in my lifetime it would go something like this:
1. Harold Worst (Great at all games, including Three Cushions, Snooker and Pool!)
2. Mike Sigel
3. Nick Varner
4. Steve Mizerak
5. Dennis Orcollo
6. Efren Reyes
7. Ed Kelly
8. Buddy Hall
9. Jim Rempe
10. Jack Breit
11. Allen Hopkins
12. Jimmy Fusco

Tough post to argue with. I just wish I were more into pool when Sigel and Varner were in their primes. I definitely missed out.

 

[Baby Huey]

Nick Varner and Mike Seigel were great players of their ERA. Now, I'd choose Dennis as the best POOL PLAYER with many others who could be considered close runner ups. I don't know if I'd choose Dennis if we condidered all the games. If we included the snooker and billiard games I'd have to choose Efren. He's close enough to hang in there in the pool games but he'd dominate at the others.

 

[PoolBum]

Here's a reminder of how Billiards Digest ranked some of these players in their 1999 "50 greatest players in pool and billiards for the 20th century."

50. Jersey Red
39. Allen Hopkins
38. Dallas West
37. Jim Rempe
30. Johnny Archer
29. Efren Reyes
27. Buddy Hall
25. Eddie Taylor
19. Harold Worst
18. Allison Fisher
17. Earl Strickland
16. Joe Balsis
15. Jean Balukas
14. Nick Varner
10. Jimmy Caras
9. Luther Lassiter
8. Irving Crane
7. Frank Taberski
6. Steve Mizerak
5. Mike Sigel
4. Alfredo De Oro
3. Ralph Greenleaf
2. Willie Mosconi
1. Willie Hoppe

 

[JoeyInCali]

Here's a reminder of how Billiards Digest ranked some of these players in their 1999 "50 greatest players in pool and billiards for the 20th century."

50. Jersey Red
39. Allen Hopkins
38. Dallas West
37. Jim Rempe
30. Johnny Archer
29. Efren Reyes
27. Buddy Hall
25. Eddie Taylor
19. Harold Worst
18. Allison Fisher
17. Earl Strickland
16. Joe Balsis
15. Jean Balukas
14. Nick Varner
10. Jimmy Caras
9. Luther Lassiter
8. Irving Crane
7. Frank Taberski
6. Steve Mizerak
5. Mike Sigel
4. Alfredo De Oro
3. Ralph Greenleaf
2. Willie Mosconi
1. Willie Hoppe

Harold Worst at #19 is a crime.

 

[PoolBum]

Harold Worst at #19 is a crime.

I agree. I think the longevity factor may have played a role in that.

 

[tucson9ball]

I would have to go with Nick Varner as best all around, still living.
I heard about him going to the Philippines and beating Efren, didn't know the exact score but he did win.
He has won world championships in all games, hence the "all around".

Anybody who says Earl, is only thinking rotation games.

I would have to put Efren in at 2nd. I don't think he has won a world title in 14.1, unless somebody can correct me.

 

[JoeyA]

You just misread my quote. Nick put the six packs and 5 packs on Efren. :grin:

JoeyA

Amazing that Nick was able to play that well after drinking that much.