Whoa - I priced tips today!

[PetToilet]

Whenever this issue comes up, there is an implicit flaw in reasoning that permeates the whole discussion.

Suppose tip A costs $30 and tip B costs $3. Does that mean tip A needs to be MUCH better than tip B to justify the bigger cost?

Does tip A need to be 10 times better?

What if tip B was free? Does that mean everybody should switch to tip B? How about if somebody offered to pay you $3 to install tip B on your cue? Would you jump at it?

My point is that it really doesn't matter what tip B costs. $30/year or so is about what most of us pay for the perreroni that goes on top of our pizza. It really is trivial. Whether you put on tip A rather than tip B should depend on whether you think tip A is better, even just marginally better, than tip B.

Your pool tip is in the same category as your toothbrush and your pillow, imo. Just buy the best one and ignore the cost.

:thumbup: people only replace their tips one or two times a year. if it makes you more consistent both with how it plays and how it affects you mentally, then go for it. I think that matters the most.

however I am as frugal as one can get so I will go for 50c tip if it plays comparably to a $20+ Moori. If I play for 5 years, replacing twice a year, that's $200 vs $10. but that is 5 years. *wants to try a milkdud*

 

[rayjay]

Tells me it's the Indian, not the Arrow...

OK, I gotta rant, nothing personal, but I've heard this phrase hundreds of times and it's total BS. It's the arrow AND the Indian. Show me an Indian that used low-grade arrows and I'll show you a hungry family.

Imagine this scenario: "Bear Claw: How'd you do hunting yesterday Soaring Eagle? Soaring Eagle: I had an easy shot at a big deer and right at the last second the arrow just lifted up and missed. Bear Claw: Too bad. You should use Running Fox's arrows...he makes the best...they fly true, penetrate deep, sharpest points, best feathers, straightest shafts. Bring the family over for dinner tonight and I'll give you a few." The best hunters use the best arrows. Period. They know better.

It's not the sword, it's the Samurai? Nope, the best Samurais used the best swords, the best ever made. Their lives depended on it. Sure, Efren can beat a lot of people with a broomstick, but do you think he'd play with one for the big bucks, when it's all on the line, against a high-level player? No. Use the best equipment you're completely confident in, from tips to shafts to cues, and you'll play better.

Whew, OK, that's off my chest, thanks. BTW, I use Mooris and I get them a lot cheaper than $19....pm Koinnkid (Troy).

 

[Pushout]

Layered tips;
PROS
-more consistent from tip to tip
-more consistent throughout the life of the the tip
-less mushrooming
-less grooming needed
-last 3-5 times longer
-wide variety to choose from
CONS
-cost more
-may delaminate(maybe 1 in 100)
-may have a void between layers(1-250)

Compressed tips;
PROS
-cost less
CONS
-have a break in period
-mushroom
-get harder the longer you play
-need to be changed every year OR sooner
-less consistent from tip to tip
-may chip or blow out as they get harder

I posed this question to other cue makers and this is what they said....

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=133341

Good one, Ryan!!

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Cheapie tips are the best.

I'll take a 40 cent mushy triangle or elkmaster any day.

Plus, i can't very well spend $30 on some high end tip when the cue only cost me $100.

That is just a total waste of money to me.

 

[Scott Lee]

...or just buy the one you think is the best for YOU...be it $.50 or $50! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Your pool tip is in the same category as your toothbrush and your pillow, imo. Just buy the best one and ignore the cost.

 

[Surly]

First of all & not to hurt your feelings but I have to ask, how well do you play? If you aren't aware, the Ram tip isn't even leather. I don't know any quality players who would like that tip or play with it. If you are an APA 2 or 3 and just getting started in the game then I understand as you may not even be able to tell the difference or realize what the tip is doing & what you are feeling. If you are worried about prices, then just get a Triangle or LePro...hard to beat if you have a good one and most charge $10 installed.
As for the more expensive premium tips...as a general rule they are more consistant in quality & require less maintenance. Most players can tell & feel a difference between tips and after trying different ones, they realize what feels best to them & what performs best for their game.

You're not hurting my feelings. I'm just starting to play again after many years away. I know the tip is rubber or composite (feels like rubber), but I liked it. And you're right - I'm not sure if it was the tip or the shaft I was enjoying, but if I don't like it, I'll change it. My shaft is 23 years old and has never had the tip replaced, I thought what the hell?

And I don't have a problem at all buying a Moori... but again, I don't really know the difference. I have a Triangle on the shaft that came with my cue that I'm not using at the moment, and my husband has a LePro... but is it the shaft making the difference or the tip? I'm just going to start trying tips with one shaft and knock 'em down one by one.

I have had Sniper, LePro, Moori, and Elk Master and I gotta say that I like my layered Moori the best by faaaaarrrrrr. It's a great tip and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one for $19. But if you are on a tight budget, look at LePro.... they are a good tip with a well balanced feel and touch to it..........or you could just get a Moori.:thumbup:

Thanks for the advice.

I found the Mooris to be very consitant and they lasted much longer than a single layer tip. But over the years I learned to change my own tips and Mooris practically became extinct for awhile there so I switched to Triumph tips. I change them more often but I like how they hit.

I went to the pool clinic that bflad did with Archer and Strickland. I have to say that Stickland was very upfront about not liking layered tips. He literally had the guys doing shots with a single layer tip cue that they couldn't do with their layered tips. I wouldn't of believed it if I didn't see it myself.

I recommend giving multiple tips a try. See what you like.. see what you don't.

Thanks. That's what I intend to do. I just need to stick to one shaft!

Whenever this issue comes up, there is an implicit flaw in reasoning that permeates the whole discussion.

Suppose tip A costs $30 and tip B costs $3. Does that mean tip A needs to be MUCH better than tip B to justify the bigger cost?

Does tip A need to be 10 times better?

What if tip B was free? Does that mean everybody should switch to tip B? How about if somebody offered to pay you $3 to install tip B on your cue? Would you jump at it?

My point is that it really doesn't matter what tip B costs. $30/year or so is about what most of us pay for the perreroni that goes on top of our pizza. It really is trivial. Whether you put on tip A rather than tip B should depend on whether you think tip A is better, even just marginally better, than tip B.

Your pool tip is in the same category as your toothbrush and your pillow, imo. Just buy the best one and ignore the cost.

There is no flaw. Tip A should be better in some definable way than tip B. I suppose I'll have to find out for myself. Then I'll give everyone the final word on tips and you won't have to read threads like this ever again. I'll define precisely why tip A is worth the price, OR why tip B is much better and it will be over and done with.

 

[Burns]

Id say tips are basically like cues, how good/bad they play is an opinion. Theyre all different hardness, put different spin, cost..etc.


My favorite tips are a Kamui or Everest, but I havent tried all the tips and Im fine with those. I also got a cue last year that has a triangle that is the best playing tip I ever had. After I got it I tried putting a triangle and my other playing cue and it didnt hit as well, even after breaking it in and wearing it down to where the other on was at. I guess it shows the triangles are not consistant, but for me all the kamuis/everests play the same.

 

[Varney Cues]

I guess it shows the triangles are not consistant

Some excellent advice for anyone who uses Triangles. Before you install a new one...fill a sink full of water. Throw 5 or 6 tips into the water. You'll want to use the ones that sink...they are more dense and hit better. The floaters are junk...trash them or save them for house cues. The floaters are the ones that'll mushroom often and play spongy & not hold a burnish as well either.:wink: Also...don't leave them in the water too long. It only takes a few seconds to tell which ones will sink to the bottom. Pull them all out quickly and blot them dry...no harm done at all.

 

[trustyrusty]

Some excellent advice for anyone who uses Triangles. Before you install a new one...fill a sink full of water. Throw 5 or 6 tips into the water. You'll want to use the ones that sink...they are more dense and hit better. The floaters are junk...trash them or save them for house cues. The floaters are the ones that'll mushroom often and play spongy & not hold a burnish as well either.:wink: Also...don't leave them in the water too long. It only takes a few seconds to tell which ones will sink to the bottom. Pull them all out quickly and blot them dry...no harm done at all.

wow, great tip. I've had 6 or 7 Triangles on cues and 3 of them played decidedly better than the others....good to see there's a way to find out before you put one on!! thanks! :thumbup:

 

[tlayne]

Well put. As an example , as my stroke improved I could definitely tell the difference. You feel more with a better stroke than just bangin balls. I won't use anything other than the layered. Very pleased with Kamui, it seems almost effortless. The bottom line is that you should try every tip you can and youfeel the differences for yourself. Your game might improve as well. Go for it & Good luck

 

[Pushout]

Some excellent advice for anyone who uses Triangles. Before you install a new one...fill a sink full of water. Throw 5 or 6 tips into the water. You'll want to use the ones that sink...they are more dense and hit better. The floaters are junk...trash them or save them for house cues. The floaters are the ones that'll mushroom often and play spongy & not hold a burnish as well either.:wink: Also...don't leave them in the water too long. It only takes a few seconds to tell which ones will sink to the bottom. Pull them all out quickly and blot them dry...no harm done at all.

Thanks, Kevin! May have to try this the next time I get tips put on. I wondered why my experience with Triangles was so bad.

 

[bell]

Some excellent advice for anyone who uses Triangles. Before you install a new one...fill a sink full of water. Throw 5 or 6 tips into the water. You'll want to use the ones that sink...they are more dense and hit better. The floaters are junk...trash them or save them for house cues. The floaters are the ones that'll mushroom often and play spongy & not hold a burnish as well either.:wink: Also...don't leave them in the water too long. It only takes a few seconds to tell which ones will sink to the bottom. Pull them all out quickly and blot them dry...no harm done at all.

Thanks V. I just put three elkmasters in a glass of milk today and two sank and one floated. Sooo, there is a difference.

 

[dr9ball]

SVB plays with a triangle and kicks everyones ass. What does that tell you?

It tells me that you can't buy a cue or tip that will fix a lousy stroke.

If a player can develop an accurate and repeatable stroke, (and I believe they can) then any quality tip will do single or multi-layered. Paying $10-$40 to have a tip changed is a band aid that may or may not help the player improve. The stroke is the key not the type of tip.

 

[macneilb]

I guess it's a matter of opinion, but I just don't see how paying $19 for a tip makes sense unless it comes stock on the shaft. Wizard tips are 11 layers and you can but them for $5 each. That to me says 2 things, when you buy tips like a moori or a kamui, you're paying for the freight, but more importantly, when you pay what you pay for a moori or a kamui, you're paying for the name, not just quality. You can buy a box of 50 soft elkmasters for 17.00, soak them, press them, shape them, and burnish the sides w/ super-glue and you have a tip that doesn't mushroom, holds chalk super well, and is consistent as anything around - all for $0.35 :smile:. However, I guess like everyone else here has mentioned, tips are all about the preference.

 

[Surly]

Thanks, macneilb

That's pretty much what I thought, but then again, what if Kamui or Moori have a reputation that supports that price? Not that they're outrageously expensive for what they do, but the price spread for tips is pretty crazy from a statistical point of view....

And I've spent all day reading the forums and have read about 100 posts on tips (shoulda done that first), and I've decided I need to spend more time with my Triangle tipped shaft and compare it to my new Ram tip. I read a lot of posts about rubber based tips and how crazy they are, but it has not affected my game really, in the 6 hours I've played with it. I'm still making impossible shots and missing easy ones.... completely consistent there.

But I've been persuaded, after reading the Talisman thread, to buy a few of those and try one. Question is, which shaft do I put it on? And which hardness do I try first? The agony never ends! I LOVE it!

 

[macguy]

A friend has offered to replace my old tip (very very old) with a Ram tip for free. I shot with the Ram for 3 hours and liked it fine...

But I was amazed to see that a Moori costs $19 compared to a Triangle or an Everest or a Ram...

And I was trying to imagine how good a tip would have to be, or how good a tip would have to feel, to warrant paying 6 times the price of another tip that is considered "great" by many other players....

So I'm wondering, from you Moori/Kamui/Sniper people; what makes the difference?

They at one time were going for $35.00 to $50.00 a tip. Supply and demand I guess, you could not get them. The guys who had them really gouged people.

 

[macneilb]

That's pretty much what I thought, but then again, what if Kamui or Moori have a reputation that supports that price? Not that they're outrageously expensive for what they do, but the price spread for tips is pretty crazy from a statistical point of view....

And I've spent all day reading the forums and have read about 100 posts on tips (shoulda done that first), and I've decided I need to spend more time with my Triangle tipped shaft and compare it to my new Ram tip. I read a lot of posts about rubber based tips and how crazy they are, but it has not affected my game really, in the 6 hours I've played with it. I'm still making impossible shots and missing easy ones.... completely consistent there.

But I've been persuaded, after reading the Talisman thread, to buy a few of those and try one. Question is, which shaft do I put it on? And which hardness do I try first? The agony never ends! I LOVE it!

No worries, personally I would buy a box of soft elkmasters (you can always make a soft tip harder, but not vice versa) and try the milk dud treatment (soak and press). If you buy a box of 50 it'll work out to roughly $0.34 a tip, so you can definately afford to experiment on the soaking and pressing part so it'll be tailored to exactly how you like your tip. On top of that, if you don't like the first few, it won't be a $19.00+ error like it would be if you didn't happen to like the layered tips. Another big plus is you can take one of those elkmasters, press the hell out of it and install it as a very good break tip. I agree that moori's, kamui's, everests etc. all have very good reputations that warrant whatever price they want to charge, but personally, I'd rather have a tip that costs less than $0.50 and is tailored exactly how I want it. Just my 2 cents

 

[swrooster]

UL Testing Lab Reports

I have played with every tip on the market in my years of dabbeling with this sport, more than just hitting a few balls with each. The only time that I don't play with a Moori is when I am trying another tip. I can tell the difference blindfolded between layerd and non-layered tips. I prefer Moori because of the consistency tip to tip and the durability. Nothing wierd or scientific, just my .02 worth.