Why buy a cue that is over $300?

Roger,

I've posted this before. Think it needs to be repeated.

Lyn, I'm not sure how your story relates to my post, but it's a good story. I've never shot with your particular Carmeli, but I have shot with quite a few and I can't imagine it being close to playing like a Schon...but what do I know. For the record I think Carmeli makes a fine playing cue, as do Schon.

However, not many makers give good value on high-end cues. By value I mean resale value. And a 3k Carmeli (or a 3k Schon, for that matter), is probably not a good "investment." I would argue that any plain, 3-piece butt constructed Carmeli or Schon would give you the "hit" of these maker's cues, and keeping it under 1k is a good bet.

-roger
 
Lyn, I'm not sure how your story relates to my post, but it's a good story. I've never shot with your particular Carmeli, but I have shot with quite a few and I can't imagine it being close to playing like a Schon...but what do I know. For the record I think Carmeli makes a fine playing cue, as do Schon.

However, not many makers give good value on high-end cues. By value I mean resale value. And a 3k Carmeli (or a 3k Schon, for that matter), is probably not a good "investment." I would argue that any plain, 3-piece butt constructed Carmeli or Schon would give you the "hit" of these maker's cues, and keeping it under 1k is a good bet.

-roger

Roger,

I am by no means an expert on cue "hit". Only know what I feel. The cue is an extension of my right arm. You may be absolutely correct on the different hits between the Carmeli and the Schon. Just don't "feel" the difference that is supposed to be there. Doubt very highly if a "newbie" would either. I'd spend the difference between $300 and $1000 on lessons from a great teacher like Stan, Randy, Scott and several others. Add that to lots of practice and the OP's money is better spent. In my opinion of course.

Lyn
 
Another reason...that $200 cue you bought will be worth maybe $75 when you are ready to sell it. Buy a $3000 custom, and you will be able to sell it for $3500.

Who really spent more money in the end?

If you put the other $2800 into an investment bearing 5% annual interest for a couple of decades you would still have your $200 cue worth $75 and you would have $7600 in the bank. If you could get an 8% return typical of a good mutual fund over time you would have $13,795 and your $75 dollar cue. The magic of compound interest insures that virtually no pool cue is a "good investment". There is almost always much better things to do with your money if future value is of any concern. But convincing ourselves that something is a good investment does help us pull the trigger on things we "want":smile:

JC
 
Here's a PM I received from the #1 Ariel Carmeli fan in the universe, 9cheeser:



This tool will fit comfortably in the AZB shed. Pls don't PM me again.

-roger

Reminds me of an ex poster who had rather a high opinion of himself, until he was banned...

Anyway, my $15 McDermott hits better than my mate's $1k Carmeli in my opinion. Doesn't look as nice in everyone's opinion.
 
Maybe it's because I can't afford to own either of them, but I would be scared to death to drive a Ferrari, or play with a $3k cue. For fear of damaging them.

A friend has some nicer cues, and by that I mean cues in the $1k range. (That's kind of a big deal around here. Hard to imagine a $3k cue...) I was scared to death when he handed it to me to check out. Gave it right back to him. :p

I think they're both really cool, and you'd never hear me knocking someone who can afford them. I guess I'm kinda glad that I can't afford one, because I don't know if I could stand the responsibility. ;)
 
Eddie,

Want you to know I have the utmost respect for you and the other cuemakers who create something from "nothing". Perhaps the thirty eight years in the retail / wholesale industry has jaded my view. In all those years I never "created" anything durable! I do feel strongly that too much is made of the technology of the game of pool instead of the basics of the game. Don't learn how to stroke the ball just change shaft materials, etc.

Lyn

I agree, everyone seems to have the thinking of its not me it has to be the cue. I personally use a plain ole maple shaft and play just fine. I have tried the other shafts and just dont like them. Maybe im just set in my ways but Im used to them and play well with them. Its funny though I have made me several shafts tapered them the same and same ferrule and tip, but they all hit different.
 
If you put the other $2800 into an investment bearing 5% annual interest for a couple of decades you would still have your $200 cue worth $75 and you would have $7600 in the bank. If you could get an 8% return typical of a good mutual fund over time you would have $13,795 and your $75 dollar cue. The magic of compound interest insures that virtually no pool cue is a "good investment". There is almost always much better things to do with your money if future value is of any concern. But convincing ourselves that something is a good investment does help us pull the trigger on things we "want":smile:

JC

Ah, your stated expected returns reminds me of the good ol' days! 5% in fixed income-land is now junk territory! Yikes:(
 
Maybe it's because I can't afford to own either of them, but I would be scared to death to drive a Ferrari, or play with a $3k cue. For fear of damaging them.

A friend has some nicer cues, and by that I mean cues in the $1k range. (That's kind of a big deal around here. Hard to imagine a $3k cue...) I was scared to death when he handed it to me to check out. Gave it right back to him. :p

I think they're both really cool, and you'd never hear me knocking someone who can afford them. I guess I'm kinda glad that I can't afford one, because I don't know if I could stand the responsibility. ;)

That is understandable. I acted like my 60 dollars Players was worth thousands when I got it and hated to see people get too close to it. Now that I have a couple of 300 dollar cues I am even worse. Hell I don't even like someone to look at them to hard.
 
Maybe it's because I can't afford to own either of them, but I would be scared to death to drive a Ferrari, or play with a $3k cue. For fear of damaging them.

A friend has some nicer cues, and by that I mean cues in the $1k range. (That's kind of a big deal around here. Hard to imagine a $3k cue...) I was scared to death when he handed it to me to check out. Gave it right back to him. :p

I think they're both really cool, and you'd never hear me knocking someone who can afford them. I guess I'm kinda glad that I can't afford one, because I don't know if I could stand the responsibility. ;)

Me too. I wouldn't touch those expensive cues with a 10 foot pole. I'd probably damage one just by looking at it.

Like most, I have to play in some seedy joints on a regular basis. I decided that my best strategy against theft is simply to refrain from owning something that is worth stealing anyway...:cool:
 
Originally Posted by desi2960:
if you cannot tell the difference between a quality made custom cue and a cheaper production cue, then by no means should you spend any money on a cue.

This just might be my bottom line.....well said.

LOL $1000 worth of facetime with a pro level instructor may very well be a better investment.

just sayin



I carry $700 worth of knives on a daily basis. I have three that I love and haven't decided which to carry. I have had times when I have set one down somewhere at work and used a second, but three is admittedly overkill.
we have a 3" blade limit here, and I dont think we're legally allowed to carry double-edged blades anymore either, which kinda sucks, but oh well, just do what we do and keep it concealed in IL bro'
I like having things that I appreciate the craftsmanship of.
I totally agree
dld
 
Why buy a cue that is over $300

Can someone send me links to information or explain to me the benefit of spending a couple hundred dollars or even thousands on a cue stick?

I just recently bought a McDermott G204. It ran me $209

It is a well made American cue, G-Core shaft.

It should do me very nicely for being an intermediate player....

In fact this cue will be better than me for years to come.

But what I notice is that there are a lot of amateur pool players who are shelling out $300+ for these cue sticks that wont make them play any better...

Back in the day people were pocketing balls with straight sticks and maple shafts...

Now we have this predator LD nonsense.

Whats the point? Pool is a very simple game, with a simple wooden tool.

If anyone can give me some insight...I am just recently taking the game more seriously

Strings make a huge difference in the way a racquet feels and performs. Whether you're restringing an old racquet or buying a new one, the more you know about strings, the better you can match your racquet to your game.

Same is true for cues, of course nothing to do with strings, other than Stringing racks together
 
some people want a cue specially crafted to their needs=> custom.

other people like the beauty of special woods or they simply collect cues because cue making IS an art => customs

others think some material gives them an advantage=> 300 for a shaft ;)

in the end its personal preference. most people here love their hobby and like to spend money on it... thats like asking some car tuners why they need stereos like in a disco in the back of their car....

LOL that is exactly right! It's all personal preference. I had a cue made in 2010 and it wasn't cheap! But I just wanted a one of a kind cue that nobody else had!
 
LOL that is exactly right! It's all personal preference. I had a cue made in 2010 and it wasn't cheap! But I just wanted a one of a kind cue that nobody else had!

Jim,

That is exactly why custom cues exist. If one can accept seeing one or more players in your local pool room with the same cue then spending lots of money for a custom is really not necessary. Luckily for the custom cue makers, there are enough players like yourself and cue collectors to stay in business. No different than custom shoe makers or custom shirt tailors. Personal preference. It just doesn't guarantee the product is better. Only somewhat unique. Just keep wondering how Willie Mosconi ever made a ball with the cue he played with. Talk about low technology!

Lyn
 
First off I think the OP meant that the IDEA of pool is simple, not the execution of excellent play. But he brings up a good line of questioning. I would feel more comfortable with the OP if he had actually played with cues that are custom and expensive, THEN had questions about the differences. Most people are answering his question incorrectly though. I believe he was after specifics as to construction, time, materials. Saying they play better because of feel is how the cue plays, but not why. I know there is a section on AZ for that...but its lame. The main forum is far more entertaining. There are lots of good responses, but none that satisfy the heart of the matter. For my opinion, I believe go with a reasonably priced custom cue maker, and go with the most striped down cue they have. I believe that is a wise way to strike the balance. Jacoby comes to mind.


Thank you for clearing that up.

*Grilled Cheese* posted this in another thread

...............................................................
There's nothing special about custom cues when it comes to playability.

It's all in people's head. There are materials, and then there is the application and design using those materials. There's no real scientific basis for why someone's custom brand "plays better"...assuming that refers to performance of the cue.

Custom cue makers are not implementing any kind of unique or special technology in construction/design that improves playability. Nor are they using special materials that do so.

What they use isn't much different than what is used in production cues. One difference is custom cue makers can source very high end premium cuts of wood. This only equates to a difference in aesthetic quality. That's about it.

I used to drink the custom cue kool aid, but not any longer. They aren't (from a playability standpoint) any better than a quality mass produced cue. But in some cases worse than production shafts.

That said, what constitutes good playability has nothing to do with the origin or brand of the cue. It all has to do with consistency and a few other criteria. There are many custom cue shafts that aren't consistent.

People who think their custom cue plays better than decent quality production cue suffer from Excalibur Syndrome. Because it was made by the hands of some cue maker they worship in some little shop some where, and because there's hype the cue is great - doesn't mean it makes you make balls. Don't believe me? Then hand your magic custom cue to some APA SL3 and they'll show you how great it plays.

When you put a new cue in your hands and then play great initially with it, you're experiencing what is known as the Placebo Effect. You think the cue is making you play better when it's really all in your head.

However, this effect predictably and eventually wears off. At which point the individual searches out the next great magic cue that will take them to the next level. Hence, the never ending search for the Excalibur cue that will make their game great.

A step toward improving one's game is to unsubscribe from such equipment based thinking and focus on the true source of one's game - themselves. That whole line of thinking is a major burden to carry around in your development as a player. It's unnecessary and harmful baggage.
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As a cuemaker I can tell you that my cues hit different than production cues and that is why people like them and pay more. But the materials that cues are made out of costs different. Normal production cues dont have ivory (none that cost 300) where customs normally do. Ivory is not cheap these days by the way. :grin-square:

Why do custom cues hit better than production cues? More specifically, why does your custom cue hit better than my Joss productin cue?
 
Why do custom cues hit better than production cues? More specifically, why does your custom cue hit better than my Joss productin cue?

I will attempt to answer your question using guitars as an example.

Why would a custom built acoustic guitar play better than a nice production Martin guitar (assuming sound is the same)? A production model is sort of one size fits all. But a built to custom specs guitar will play better if built to your specs. However, if it was built to someone else's specs, then it may or may not feel better to play. And if the stock Martin fits your specs to begin with, then there is no need for a custom.

If your Joss is right for you, then you have no need for a custom built cue. Now having a cue or guitar built for decoration purposes is another story.
 
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I started out playing with a house cue, then a 2 piece dufferin for years, then just recently bought a lucasi then a predator. Does the $700 predator play 2 times better than my $300 lucasi? No. Would a $4000 custom play 6 times better than my predator? No...

But the $4000 custom will certainly be different from anything else and be made of higher end materials, will that mean it will play better? Possibly but that's not the point of a custom. Just like a Nissan GT-R performs as well as most supercars 4 times the cost, it does not have the same panache as a ferarri, bugatti... etc. Brand, quality, performance and rarity all factor in on the cost....

The funniest thing that I find are LV handbags... seriously? $1000 for a canvas handbag?

In the end, anything is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.... $2.3 million for a stamp? That $4000 custom cue looks like a better deal doesn't it?

I'm probably going to order a custom cue in the next couple of months, I expect to pay a few thousand and will gladly do so to get something made to order. I don't expect it to play better than my predator but that's not why I'm ordering one.
 
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I will attempt to answer your question using guitars as an example.

Why would a custom built acoustic guitar play better than a nice production Martin guitar (assuming sound is the same)? A production model is sort of one size fits all. But a built to custom specs guitar will play better if built to your specs. However, if it was built to someone else's specs, then it may or may not feel better to play. And if the stock Martin fits your specs to begin with, then there is no need for a custom.

If your Joss is right for you, then you have no need for a custom built cue. Now having a cue or guitar built for decoration purposes is another story.

I think the "customization" of custom cues is much overstated. The mass/size of the cueball, the average bridge length...limits a cue's specs to a pretty narrow range. 18-21 oz, 58-60 in, 12-13mm dia tip.

To me, the only reason why some custom cues are better than some production cues is the time spent selecting and seasoning wood stock. Wood is fickle, and mass producing a 58" wooden cone 13mm at one end and 1.25 in at the other and expecting it to stay straight is a high order.

Just remember that there are many hack "custom" makers out there, and there are quality production cues as well as crap ones. If you think your average local/regional CM has tighter tolerances than say Joss or Schon, you'd be dead wrong.

-roger
 
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