Why can’t I just get better?

Poolmanis said:
On 9-ball cuts have normally a lot more angle than 8-ball. Because cueball needs to travel more.
Thats probably reason if your 8-ball game took step down
Try practice some thick stun shots, short roll shots and small distance draw shots. Try focus on speed. That should help a lot simple close game speed that is required to get good accuracy on high level 8-ball play.
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Interesting. This makes a lot of sense. I’ve never heard it explained quite like that where 9 ball has sharper cuts, and I’ve never thought that way either.


Damn! Now I have to practice more of the stupid stuff! I just wanna run balls all day and not worry about it. Lol
 
TheBasics said:
Willow, Howdy;

If it is what you refer to as "stupid stuff", then THAT is your major problem.

hank
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You’re right Hank. That was a joke. I really like poolmani’s perspective. But still Gotta let the inner banger out sometimes.

Have to do everything I can to get 1/2” better is my actual outlook at this point. The work put in usually pays for itself.

A lot of good info here to read through. Nobody caught the question/answer. Moving the balls where you want them is just as important as shape. In a simple sense it’s Like taking a combo shot to the hanger over just the hanging ball. Or caroming off 2 balls for shape instead of going around them. You can be good with one, but not great without the other.
 
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CocoboloCowboy said:
Maybe you just in slump, ever Efrin Reyes misses.

So do most top Pro players, see it all the time on U-Tubes.🤣
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I also see the opposite. Most of the matches I watch tend to be later in the tournament so it's usually two of the top guys in the tournament, probably playing better than their average level, and in full stroke after torching half the field.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
👍👍👍👍(I totally agree to different programs part)…..As the saying goes though—“Sometimes you gotta get worse to get better”…

And Im starting to understand why some really good 9 ball players hate playing 8 ball now.
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In reading your posts in the past, I believe you are fishing for a $50 or $100 sociable eight ball game. That would surely help you improve!
 
R2PQZ said:
In reading your posts in the past, I believe you are fishing for a $50 or $100 sociable eight ball game. That would surely help you improve!
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I passed up last few games actually. In a sense I probably just need some more practice and a little bit of patience.
 
A cue ball only knows three things.
1) direction
2) spin
3) speed

Speed is the toughest.
The better you get the more precise you try to be when it comes to getting shape
and that can be a knife that cuts both ways.
A quarter inch can mean the difference between perfect position and hooking yourself.
No substitute for hitting million balls.
Practice and patience.
 
I don't know what kind of patterns you're playing. It sounds like you're trying to play 8 ball in 9 ball mode. Not good.

Go break a couple 8 ball racks. Look and see how many balls line up to be consecutive stop shots. Most racks have multiple stop shots. There is a good percentage where the entire rack is nothing but stop shots. That's what us gray beards call a Cosmo.

A good and very basic but hugely important skill to have is controlling the cue ball. The portion of that I mean is stop or move the cb 1 ball in any direction after contact.

Here is the drill:
Line up a straight in shot with the balls a foot or so apart. Shoot a stop shot. That means after contact the cb stops perfectly. It doesn't roll a millimeter forward a millimeter backward or to either side at all. Shoot it until you can do it 10 times in a row.

Once you've got to stop shot down now shoot the same shot. Now your goal is to make the cue ball go forward and replace the position of the object ball. After you got that down 10 times in a row shoot the same shot but make the cue ball draw precisely one ball backward. Again 10 times in a row.
Once you got all that down you can make the cue ball and the object ball further apart. I think at this point you understand the drill. But if you take the distance between the object ball Hedge where the cue ball was and one ball behind the cue ball you now have over 7 in Subspace you can hit perfectly. Take that 7in and walk around an eight ball rack you broke and you find out how many stops shots there are. It will be a lot.
 
TheBasics said:
Willow, Howdy;

Sound like you are trying to shoot 8 ball like ya do 9 ball. Two different games. Need different type
of thinking for each one. Yup they do have cross-over moments but you need to drop a different
'program card' into the master controller. With 9 you have a variety of shots that that necessitate
rolling long distances to get on the next ball. A lot of 8 ball is shorter shots although there are longer
shots as well. IMHO, SPEED control is the main thing that helps control the CB. You can know where
to hit the CB to get it where you might want it to be but if you don't have the correct speed it will
either come up short or roll on by. Get to know your speed settings then see how you are doing.

hank
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I have always professed that 9 ball is the young man's game. 8 ball is the old man's game. When I was growing in the 9 ball academy at The White Spot, I also paid $2 a game bar table 8 ball. This old Elmer Fudd looking dude😉 gave me my most valued 8 ball lessons.
The script went like this. He would focus on blocking the 2 foot pockets. Then dare me to go for the run out. Strategy difference in both games is well uh significant.
My second 8 ball lessons came from Jim Ward. I was playing his son Rod knee. $5 nine ball. I was roasting him and had him stuck $40. This was during the big bi-anual 9 ball tournament. Rod pulled up and turned to Dad. Jim says, something to the effect of...$10 eight ball or we are done.
Sure, I thought I was ready for run out 8 ball. NOPE, missed balls late are always fatal. By closing time he had $40 out of my pocket.
Valued lesson took a while to repair bruise d ego.😉
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
You’re right Hank. That was a joke. I really like poolmani’s perspective. But still Gotta let the inner banger out sometimes.

Have to do everything I can to get 1/2” better is my actual outlook at this point. The work put in usually pays for itself.

A lot of good info here to read through. Nobody caught the question/answer. Moving the balls where you want them is just as important as shape. In a simple sense it’s Like taking a combo shot to the hanger over just the hanging ball. Or caroming off 2 balls for shape instead of going around them. You can be good with one, but not great without the other.
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Generally speaking the less balls you touch , the better off you will be.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
Well no I forgot to post question on there. What do you all think is more important for 8? Shape or moving the balls around? I like to set up for multiple shots in 8. And improvise. So shape isn’t that important.
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To me, 8B is ball selection and 9B is execution. In 8B, you need to pick the right balls to run the rack in 9B, you need to execute the right shots to run the rack. Yes, 9B also has shot selection but it's more attuned to "pattern" selection, how do I want to get on this ball to get to that ball, but you don't have a choice on the balls ;)

And given your perceived level play - try not to move stuff around if you don't need to, the more stuff you hit the more opportunity for errors ;)

Oh, and shape IS important :)
 
philly said:
Generally that is true.
But gently moving your opponents suit of balls into a cluster is always a good move when you
have the chance to do so.
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Only if it is conducive to you running the balls, otherwise, don't touch :)

Watch the pros - you won't see them nudging opponents balls unless it's safety oriented or they prevent a run out.
 
Poolmanis said:
On 9-ball cuts have normally a lot more angle than 8-ball. Because cueball needs to travel more.
Thats probably reason if your 8-ball game took step down
Try practice some thick stun shots, short roll shots and small distance draw shots. Try focus on speed. That should help a lot simple close game speed that is required to get good accuracy on high level 8-ball play.
Click to expand...
My saying in 9B is "gotta take it easy to make it easy." This flies out the window in 8 ball. Much more stop, stun and draw shots. I never thought about the reason why but you nailed it. I also used to really suck at 9B and be decent at 8B. Now after playing a lot of 9B I've found I'm getting better at 9B but I'm slightly worse at 8B. Basically because I've not been practicing stop, stun and draw nearly as much. Good food for thought, thanks for posting!
 
Poolmanis said:
On 9-ball cuts have normally a lot more angle than 8-ball. Because cueball needs to travel more.
Thats probably reason if your 8-ball game took step down
Try practice some thick stun shots, short roll shots and small distance draw shots. Try focus on speed. That should help a lot simple close game speed that is required to get good accuracy on high level 8-ball play.
Click to expand...

Excellent points about the travel distance and speed (I never really separated 8B and 9B like that but that will surely screw me up now :)) but I think the small distance draw shots comments is excellent points to what I call "close quarters combat", you have to learn to move the CB this way, that way, or the other way - all within a VERY short distance.

I've noticed that lower skilled players tend to focus on "top left" or "draw" and they're not focusing on 1/4 tip down, 1/8 tip top or most importantly separating the top/draw from left/right - i.e. does this shot take a 1/2 tip top and 1/8 tip left or 1/2 tip top and 1/16 tip left - big difference. Meaning, they just know how to draw a little or a lot and they haven't quite learned the intricacies of how small tip movements and minor adjustments in grip can help manipulate the ball in tight quarters.
 
Chili Palmer said:
Only if it is conducive to you running the balls, otherwise, don't touch :)

Watch the pros - you won't see them nudging opponents balls unless it's safety oriented or they prevent a run out.
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I believe what you say pertains more to rotation games.
In 8 ball clogging opponents balls is part of the game and of course you always want to pot your ball and make shape
but you do not sacrifice one for the other except for when the situation arises.
 
Sounds like you started doing something specific that's different to before and your results got worse. Makes sense.

Sounds like part of the reason is that you're using skills you can improve at (precise position, more challenging routes - and you'll get better by continuing)
And part of the reason is trying for precise position is inherently worse strategy than playing for multiple options (when you can).

If you're willing to stick with the experiment, you'll probably continue improving your positional skills. (But remember at some time in the future to go back to playing for multiple options or pushing through traffic when that's the best shot on the table.)

If you're not willing to play slightly worse for now, you could go back to your old game, but try to have a specific target spot on the table even for your multiple-option shots. Maybe you'll still improve your positional play that way.
 
philly said:
I believe what you say pertains more to rotation games.
In 8 ball clogging opponents balls is part of the game and of course you always want to pot your ball and make shape
but you do not sacrifice one for the other except for when the situation arises.
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Some of the key things I've learned from experience, listening, and watching are:

1) Move the CB as little as possible
2) Use the tangent line
3) Speed control
4) Don't touch stuff you don't need to touch.

The first three things all affect the fourth, the moment you add anything to the mix it complicates things. I agree that sometimes it's beneficial to touch something else but if I'm on a run and there's nothing blocking any of my balls then why would I hit another object ball and take a chance to slow the movement of the CB, change the trajectory of the CB, etc.

Generally speaking, those are the rules I follow and I try not to touch anything I don't have to, that being said, banging balls with friends (even a friendly competition) I will most definitely have fun sometimes and try to move stuff and screw up other peoples stuff.
 
Chili Palmer said:
Some of the key things I've learned from experience, listening, and watching are:

1) Move the CB as little as possible
2) Use the tangent line
3) Speed control
4) Don't touch stuff you don't need to touch.

The first three things all affect the fourth, the moment you add anything to the mix it complicates things. I agree that sometimes it's beneficial to touch something else but if I'm on a run and there's nothing blocking any of my balls then why would I hit another object ball and take a chance to slow the movement of the CB, change the trajectory of the CB, etc.

Generally speaking, those are the rules I follow and I try not to touch anything I don't have to, that being said, banging balls with friends (even a friendly competition) I will most definitely have fun sometimes and try to move stuff and screw up other peoples stuff.
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8 ball is a different game.
You are making good points but it mainly applies to rotation games when each shooter is shooting the same balls.
In 8 ball each player is playing different balls and making it difficult for your opponent is just smart if, of course,
if it does not keep you from obtaining your objectives.
One pocket is also a game in which you purposely move other balls.
 
philly said:
8 ball is a different game.
You are making good points but it mainly applies to rotation games when each shooter is shooting the same balls.
In 8 ball each player is playing different balls and making it difficult for your opponent is just smart if, of course,
if it does not keep you from obtaining your objectives.
One pocket is also a game in which you purposely move other balls.
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If it is "free" to move your opponents balls, then sure, but I think the most prudent thing is not to move balls that go for you. If your balls all have a pocket, they shouldn't be touched. If you have large clusters, you should break them up in a controlled fashion, using insurance balls if necessary.

I've been playing a lot of UK pool. The cue ball is smaller and less capable of doing "work" in cluster etc. Most pro players pick the balls off cleanly, in an almost clinical fashion when they are trying to run out. I mostly favour this approach for US 8 ball and straightpool as well. It works very well, and doesn't rely on much luck at all. If the balls all have pockets, why risk tying them back up? Really if the OP is suggesting going into clusters hard and without control, I don't agree with his approach. You may occationally get on a roll and run several racks that way, but you won't be consistent, long term.
 
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