Why CTE is silly

[JB Cases]

CTE does not work.












By itself.



































It's merely one METHOD.























Among MANY MANY MANY methods.










































To find Center Cue Ball in relation to the object ball.



































That's all.




































It works by helping the player.















































To have a consistent guide.




































































To find the Center Ball Aiming Line.

































People who use CTE.



















































Properly








































Find that it works for them very consistently.




















































People who don't use it properly or










































People who won't try it,




































Don't have good results.















































Bottom line.









































CTE is no more bullshit than any other METHOD. What works for you is what works.

 

[manwon]

Here is another GREAT CTE Resource!

P.S. i don;t like Taco Bell or Del Taco as I like Authentic South of the Border Food.

Now Cowboy, that is the first thing I have ever say that was nice about anything South of the Boarder!!!!!

Great Post, keep it up:smile:

 

[manwon]

Dam all I did was ask what CTE is and now the forum is being Spamed, that is some funny chit man!!!!!!:grin:

 

[BRKNRUN]

I have never seen someone put so much work into something so silly.

On the other hand....If CocoCowboy is in favor of it...I have to sit back and think....Ok...there MUST be something wrong with it....

 

[Cuebuddy]

OH OHHHH OOOOH Cuebuddy is getting a irresistible urge to quote
JB Cases........ muusst resisst.

 

[JB Cases]

I disagree. We're talking about math. Either 1+1=2 or it doesn't.

Math isn't subjective like food preferences.

TX Poolnut <--loves Taco Bell

Actually we aren't talking about math when we talk about CTE. We are talking about visual reference points and perception. When I say to you look at the "edge" of the ball you may be staring at a different space than me.

That CTE works certainly has to do with math somewhere as do all things in life on the highest level.

But even Ghost Ball relies on perception and estimation rather than cold hard calculation.

The fact is that there are all sorts of methods to "aim" which help a person to align themselves to the correct line. Once a person starts studying these methods then all sorts of interesting things happen. Such as the ability to make previously "impossible" looking shots. The player gains the ability to consistently make shots that they previously consistently over and undercut. Players find that if they apply certain methods to aim regardless of the shot then they begin to raise their pocketing percentages on "regular" shots a little bit and quite a bit on the "hard" shots.

Some have suggested that this is merely the subconscious adjusting automatically. I contend that the subconscious cannot adjust into the proper shot line unless you are very close to it to begin with.

For, as the original poster has shown, pool is a game of precision where millimeters count.

So if a person claims that they are using CTE and they are pocketing balls consistently then obviously the math is working on some level.

In my opinion.

 

[greyghost]

Just curious: are you taking issue with his cipherin' (which I think Bob Jewett did a long time ago) or, are you saying that CTE can achieve that level of precision? Or something else?

I don't believe anyone is talking about taking a laserometer to the pool hall, but it does seem that he's making a valid point: with 4.5 pockets, an aiming system would need to put you within those kinds of tolerances for you to successfully pocket balls. If we're in agreement that he's in the ball park with his numbers, then could you point out where (anywhere) it's been shown that a player employing CTE, or your shadow method for that matter, can consistently achieve that level of precision.

Lou Figueroa

I was pretty much just ribbin on PJ......as far as the numbers go and from what I know about CTE, my shadow method and a handful of others.....the systems aim you to the center of the pocket so size matters not......

if you were having to shoot at a particular part of the pocket to cheat it etc...then most aiming systems I know suck in this relation....ghost ball is the only really effective aiming system in regards to a shot such as that.


fwiw,
-Grey Ghost-

 

[JB Cases]

OH OHHHH OOOOH Cuebuddy is getting a irresistible urge to quote
JB Cases........ muusst resisst.

Don't do it. I will lose a week's work. Must get out now......





CTE


Career Terminating Exercise

 

[iusedtoberich]

GetMeThere,

I'm a feel player. I don't visualize a contact spot, a line, an imaginary ball, a shadow, nothing. I say this to show that I have no bias in favor of aiming methods.

Assuming your math is correct, what you calculated would be true of any ball pocketing method... be it CTE, ghost ball, dividing the ball into fractions, FEEL, spinning around like a ballerina with both eyes closed and then shooting the shot, etc.

None of those methods have ever been shown on these AZ threads how to make an adjustment the width of 1/16", let alone a human a hair.

Your main point that CTE does not have the precision necessary to pocket a range of shots is also valid for the other systems. What your findings show is that pool is a damn hard game. They prove or disprove the validity of CTE or any other aiming system.

 

[JB Cases]

if you were having to shoot at a particular part of the pocket to cheat it etc...then most aiming systems I know suck in this relation....ghost ball is the only really effective aiming system in regards to a shot such as that.


fwiw,
-Grey Ghost-

Why?

If you use an aiming method that really does bring you to the center pocket aiming line then it's a simple exercise to adjust to one side or the other to cheat a pocket.

In fact I happen to think as does Hal Houle that when a person starts using aiming methods which bring them to the center ball aiming line that it becomes such a force of habit that they automatically step into the shot where they need to be.

So the first thing a person does when approaching the shot is to see the correct aiming line and then in a split second they know that they have to adjust and they do and when they get down on the ball they are just where they need to be and then it's a matter of delivery.

In my opinion that is. I find that this is what happens to me when I get in stroke.

 

[TRPOOL]

If CTE does not work, What does??????? I have used CTE for a long time and I think it is one of the best tips I ever recieved from someone. I don't use it on all shots, maybe about 10%. But when I need it, it helps, especially on critical or difficult shots. CTE has helped me win many tournaments and make make many clutch balls. I find it as easy as lining up center to edge and putting a good stroke on the ball. I can trust it all the way. I love CTE!!!

 

[jalapus logan]

I'll chime in here. I think that CTE does work. It is not silly. However, it can be taught and incorporated into one's game in 10 minutes or less. It does not make one aim differently. However, it can teach and reinforce consistency and body alignment that are necessary to pocket balls with a high percentage of accuracy. It is about approaching a shot in a predictable, consistent method. This is what CTE is to me. Nothing more. No math required. Very little time required. Has it helped my game? Absolutely. Is it the end all be all? Absolutely not. As I use it, I would not even call it an "aiming system". I would, however, re-emphasize its benefits in body/line of sight alignment. After that, proceed with the HAMB method.

Cheers all...

 

[randyg]

Go visit Randyg, or Stan Shuffett.

Thanks hammer37.

We teach SAME AIM (CTE) in about an hour provided the student arrives with an Open mind. It take another couple of weeks to install SAME AIM into your shot-routine. With-out an Open Mind and hands on instruction I don't think CTE works either, actually, it's just a waste of time.

Stan has no problems with his students when explaining Pro-One.
Randyg has no problems with his students when explaining SAME AIM.

I wonder why the nay sayers have such a problem?

Thanks...SPF=randyg

 

[ThePoliteSniper]

What "CTE" stands for has been answered many times, but what it actually is will be answered in the next issue of a series of articles about CTE that is running on the front page of this web site right now.

Roger

Can't wait.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

cte does not work.












By itself.



































It's merely one method.























Among many many many methods.










































To find center cue ball in relation to the object ball.



































That's all.




































It works by helping the player.















































To have a consistent guide.




































































To find the center ball aiming line.

































People who use cte.



















































Properly








































find that it works for them very consistently.




















































People who don't use it properly or










































people who won't try it,




































don't have good results.















































Bottom line.









































Cte is no more bullshit than any other method. What works for you is what works.

amen!!!!!!!

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I have never seen someone put so much work into something so silly.

On the other hand....If CocoCowboy is in favor of it...I have to sit back and think....Ok...there MUST be something wrong with it....

Well if you try it you might like it, but if you sit in the sideline, and never try it. It will never work for you!!!!

 

[BRKNRUN]

Well if you try it you might like it, but if you sit in the sideline, and never try it. It will never work for you!!!!

Who says I have not tried it....I have tried it...and do understand it....However...I don't need it...I can get to the same exact aim line by using CTC.....and never have to make a paralell shift or a pivot back to center.

The thing is that no matter what system anyone uses...there will always be some subconcious adjustment...an aiming system is nothing more than a tool that helps you get the right feel for the shot.

If that was not the case.......There would be no reason for CTE users to look at the object ball last....You could make your parallel shift to the edge...get down on your shot and then on your final stroke just look at pivot and hit center CB.......based on the system...the shot should go.

 

[GetMeThere]

GetMeThere,

I'm a feel player. I don't visualize a contact spot, a line, an imaginary ball, a shadow, nothing. I say this to show that I have no bias in favor of aiming methods.

Assuming your math is correct, what you calculated would be true of any ball pocketing method... be it CTE, ghost ball, dividing the ball into fractions, FEEL, spinning around like a ballerina with both eyes closed and then shooting the shot, etc.

None of those methods have ever been shown on these AZ threads how to make an adjustment the width of 1/16", let alone a human a hair.

Your main point that CTE does not have the precision necessary to pocket a range of shots is also valid for the other systems. What your findings show is that pool is a damn hard game. They prove or disprove the validity of CTE or any other aiming system.

Hey UsedTo,

Here are some absolute truths (as far as I can determine):

1) Many shots must be hit with considerable precision to be made. My figures demonstrate that. IOW, there's only one very small, well-defined configuration of CB-OB that will pocket the ball, and MANY that won't.

2) SOMEHOW, it's necessary to "know" what/where that configuration is. It can certainly be through feel and experience--and nothing more. Many pro player's have testified that's all it is.

3) In addition to knowing where the configuration is, it's necessary to actually point your stroke at it.

4) In addition to pointing your stroke at it, it's necessary to actually transmit your stroke in such a way that you actually send the CB along the line you intend.

5) And all THAT isn't even enough. You also need to take into account throw (and how it varies with cut angle, speed, english, and table conditions), and squirt.

6) One thing my data show is that even having SIXTY FOUR different points of aim on the OB is NOT ENOUGH to make all shots, at all distances! Many shots require even greater precision than 1/64th of a ball variation.

I simply haven't seen any SINGLE aspect of "CTE" mentioned by ANYONE that even remotely suggests any method contained in it that would produce the precision necessary. I'm more than open to hearing evidence of such a method. So far, all I've heard from more than a few CTE accolytes is that it's not even NECESSARY to know where the pocket is!

PS: Regarding methods to make adjustments within 1/16" : If you can visualize a ghost ball with fidelity, the accuracy can be infinitely precise.

 

[greyghost]

Why?

If you use an aiming method that really does bring you to the center pocket aiming line then it's a simple exercise to adjust to one side or the other to cheat a pocket.

In fact I happen to think as does Hal Houle that when a person starts using aiming methods which bring them to the center ball aiming line that it becomes such a force of habit that they automatically step into the shot where they need to be.

So the first thing a person does when approaching the shot is to see the correct aiming line and then in a split second they know that they have to adjust and they do and when they get down on the ball they are just where they need to be and then it's a matter of delivery.

In my opinion that is. I find that this is what happens to me when I get in stroke.

I guess I mean if you have a precise point on the pocket to aim at or say trying to make a combo.....most aiming systems are not as good as ghost ball in that fashion......just aiming inside and outside the pocket is one thing but precise areas such as in combos are entirely diff.......

 

[lfigueroa]

CTE does not work.
By itself.
It's merely one METHOD.
Among MANY MANY MANY methods.
To find Center Cue Ball in relation to the object ball.
That's all.
It works by helping the player.
To have a consistent guide.
To find the Center Ball Aiming Line.
People who use CTE.
Properly
Find that it works for them very consistently.
People who don't use it properly or
People who won't try it,
Don't have good results.
Bottom line.
CTE is no more bullshit than any other METHOD. What works for you is what works.

lol.

A convenient bit of revisionism. Going back at least 10 years, Hal Houle, the godfather of CTE, clearly and on many ocassions called it an aiming system.

Careful, John. You're gonna get your aluminum foil cap and decoder ring taken away

Lou Figueroa