bigshooter said:
They hit a TON!
Why do people like Predator cues?
- Thread starter bigshooter
- Start date
They hit a TON!
branpureza said:
I like the stainless joint and construction of the Predators. Phenolic is set into the wood and the joint pins and inserts are set into the phenolic. Can't hurt it, no wood to split, or strip. I can't imagine a better hit than the simple, wrapless SP4RJ, with a 314, 314-2 or a Z-2. Perhaps some people don't like a solid hit. Also, I've read that some think the Predator shafts feel hollow - that's not my experience. Like branpureza said, they hit a ton, IMHO.
bigshooter said:
First let me say I do not use a Predator cue or shaft or any other laminated shaft or cue. When Predator first came out on the market it was an instant sucess simply because Predator was very good at how they presented the pro's and con's of using one. Now I am certain that Predator Shafts do have the ability to be non-deflective, but my point is what is that single fact really worth. Because that is the only thing a Predator shaft has over any other shaft!!!!!!Period. In my opinion are they worth what you pay for the shafts NO are the cues special in any major way NO.
When Predator first came out with their product they made the statement that it would be the last shaft you would ever need. To go farther, they made the statement that once you used and became proficient with a Predator shaft, you could pick up any cue with one and there would be no difference in the shaft deflection. We all know that people become use to, and attached to the shaft on their playing cue where a Predator type shaft or a standard non-laminated shaft. In fact when a person changes cues for any reason, the difference in the shafts will effect their game more than anything else.
Now with that being said and understanding that the cues shaft has more effect for most people changing cues Predator came up with an idea. Predator marketed their shafts with the perception that once you get use to the way a Predator shaft plays, due to it's design every Predator shaft would feel exactly the same to the user. Now if that were true that would certainly be a great advantage along with the fact that the shaft reduces deflection. However, with time many people have found out that this claim was simple not true, and they found out that while all Predator shafts do reduce deflection no two do it to the exact same degree. Now some would say that the problems have only gotten worst since the production moved to China, well I doubt that is true. Since the shaft dowels where made in China almost from the beginning of the companies production. This was going on even during the years the Cues and Shafts were being assembled in Canada by Falcon Cues.
Now please bear with me here, and I am not making a joke predator shafts are like Crack Cocaine. Once you adjust your game to a Predator shaft or other similar shaft you are hooked, not because it is better than a standard non-laminated shaft, simply because it is different. The difference will cause you miss shots with a standard shaft, simply because you have adjusted to a Predator shaft. Does this make the Predator shaft better Certainly Not, only different, but any difference in your game will make you stick with what you are using. So like I said you are now Hooked, and you can use nothing but a predator shaft effectively. So once you are hooked Predator can expect you to buy a new shaft every so many years, or maybe step up and buy a shaft and one of their cues.
My only question is was this their plan from the beginning? It certainly could have been, kinda like the Coco Cola Company around the turn of the century. In my opinion, anyone who can LEARN to use Predator shaft, can certainly LEARN to use a non-laminated shaft and in the long run for a lot less money. Lets face it folks while their certainly is something that can be said for having good equipment. There is a hell of lot more that can be said about having the ability to use the equipment you have. I know that some will say that well look at all the Pro's who use this equipment it must be great, look what it does for them, and this is true THEY ARE PRO'S. But the question could they also do the same thing without a Predator shaft, the answer is certainly yes. First of all, while I am certain that many do use and like the equipment, most started using it in the first place due to endorsements, like I said these shafts are like Crack!!!:grin: In addition they do not have to buy these shafts like normal players do, these shafts are put in their hands for free for the advertisement only.
I know that many will not agree with me here, but this is just my opinion.
well....
I was about to compose a post explaining how I feel about predator...
then I read this and realized he beat me to it.
I was about to compose a post explaining how I feel about predator...
then I read this and realized he beat me to it.
manwon said:First let me say I do not use a Predator cue or shaft or any other laminated shaft or cue. When Predator first came out on the market it was an instant sucess simply because Predator was very good at how they presented the pro's and con's of using one. Now I am certain that Predator Shafts do have the ability to be non-deflective, but my point is what is that single fact really worth. Because that is the only thing a Predator shaft has over any other shaft!!!!!!Period. In my opinion are they worth what you pay for the shafts NO are the cues special in any major way NO.
When Predator first came out with their product they made the statement that it would be the last shaft you would ever need. To go farther, they made the statement that once you used and became proficient with a Predator shaft, you could pick up any cue with one and there would be no difference in the shaft deflection. We all know that people become use to, and attached to the shaft on their playing cue where a Predator type shaft or a standard non-laminated shaft. In fact when a person changes cues for any reason, the difference in the shafts will effect their game more than anything else.
Now with that being said and understanding that the cues shaft has more effect for most people changing cues Predator came up with an idea. Predator marketed their shafts with the perception that once you get use to the way a Predator shaft plays, due to it's design every Predator shaft would feel exactly the same to the user. Now if that were true that would certainly be a great advantage along with the fact that the shaft reduces deflection. However, with time many people have found out that this claim was simple not true, and they found out that while all Predator shafts do reduce deflection no two do it to the exact same degree. Now some would say that the problems have only gotten worst since the production moved to China, well I doubt that is true. Since the shaft dowels where made in China almost from the beginning of the companies production. This was going on even during the years the Cues and Shafts were being assembled in Canada by Falcon Cues.
Now please bear with me here, and I am not making a joke predator shafts are like Crack Cocaine. Once you adjust your game to a Predator shaft or other similar shaft you are hooked, not because it is better than a standard non-laminated shaft, simply because it is different. The difference will cause you miss shots with a standard shaft, simply because you have adjusted to a Predator shaft. Does this make the Predator shaft better Certainly Not, only different, but any difference in your game will make you stick with what you are using. So like I said you are now Hooked, and you can use nothing but a predator shaft effectively. So once you are hooked Predator can expect you to buy a new shaft every so many years, or maybe step up and buy a shaft and one of their cues.
My only question is was this their plan from the beginning? It certainly could have been, kinda like the Coco Cola Company around the turn of the century. In my opinion, anyone who can LEARN to use Predator shaft, can certainly LEARN to use a non-laminated shaft and in the long run for a lot less money. Lets face it folks while their certainly is something that can be said for having good equipment. There is a hell of lot more that can be said about having the ability to use the equipment you have. I know that some will say that well look at all the Pro's who use this equipment it must be great, look what it does for them, and this is true THEY ARE PRO'S. But the question could they also do the same thing without a Predator shaft, the answer is certainly yes. First of all, while I am certain that many do use and like the equipment, most started using it in the first place due to endorsements, like I said these shafts are like Crack!!!:grin: In addition they do not have to buy these shafts like normal players do, these shafts are put in their hands for free for the advertisement only.
I know that many will not agree with me here, but this is just my opinion.
I have never owned a custom cue, so I can't really say much in that respect. I have owned a production J. Pechaur and I really didn't like the feel of it. Mainly the response I got from hitting the cue ball, it was like I didn't hit anything, or there wasn't any feedback. I own a 5K1 and have played with it for the past year. I liked the feedback I received from the cue in each contact with the cue so I have stuck with it. Recently I have been wondering about a lot of custom cues, Sugertree, QuePerfect and some others and wonder if I can get better feedback from these. I have also seen a independent test that shows that there are better shafts (less deflection) than a predator 314-2 being made by some custom cue makers. I am really looking forward to purchasing a custom cue but will have to wait until I have enough money.
On another note, I have noticed that when I go to a bar to gamble (steal) and I don't bring my own cue I shoot at least a notch below what I normally shoot. I think this has to do with the Predator shaft and how I have grown used to it.
On another note, I have noticed that when I go to a bar to gamble (steal) and I don't bring my own cue I shoot at least a notch below what I normally shoot. I think this has to do with the Predator shaft and how I have grown used to it.
bigshooter said:
i promis you its alot less than $100, i import stuff from China and its free, furnature specifically, they want to make more $$$ to advertize more and they will sell more cues than anyone else.
McDonalds, BK, Pizza Hut etc spend something like 25%-30% of Gross income on advertizing, so when you buy $3.00 worth of food, $1 goes into marketing and thats why they sell more hambugers than Joes Hambugers in tim-buck-too. So if they cut 25% of their manufactoring costs and parlay the savings into marketing-no noe has a shot in the market to compete-think Ping Golf Equipment, a $1000 driver dosent cost $100 to build sometimes much less(I had a friend who was a golf equipment company-they sold wholesale to the trade with any nme on it their customes want) Predator could do the same thing, build "Fatboy ues" in addition to their brand.
The problem with manufactoring in America is our Govt and all the regulatory agencys pushing up prices, the EPA for painting cues-it costs over $50,000(Jerry Franklin told me this) to get a paint booth that the EPA is happy with, or OSHA(spelled it wrong) the guys who bust your balls to make sure the machines are behint the yellow tape on the floor so no accidents happen, then insurance because everyone wants to sue their employer, too much red tape to do biz in America and it costs more, $$ follows the path of least resistance.
Here you have to sweat the regulators, inspectors, pay fines to them for violations etc. Thats why business are leaving, If your cues(or damn near anything) are made in China all you do is call and order more and check the quality on each batch. Our govt makes the cost of doing biz not worth the while, It aint the workers fault(but they suffer the most). Its bad rules and regulations set forth by our government that makes it this way, Also the lawyers do as well, you get a splinter from a shaft and you can get 5 Lawyers ready to take on the case.
this isnt a reent problem, its been a long term problem that is getting noticed now because people are paying attention, its called a trade defficiate and its getting worse and worse mainly because the Law makers are strangling bussiness(larger businesses) If your making 30 cues a year you will never have a problem, if your making 5000/year your on the radar. So not buying isnt gonna fix the problem, forign policy will.
poolplayer2093 said:
Exactly what I wanted to say, thanks.
In other words it provides much more joy to have something done by myself and due to all the time spent practicing... instead of all the time spent on saving money for something that will do almost everything for me.
they don't do anything 'for you' per se.
I am really struggling to see your logic. You're found a cue/shaft that obviously suits you because you were getting results with it - and because this particular combination of you + cue works too well, you no longer want to use it?
poohkiller said:
Any player can learn any cue...
don't buy the hype
get something you like
and shoot with nothing else..
your cue will become your game and your game will come from your cue.
if you want to buy scrap wood and ship it overseas let them glue it together then ship it back to the USA... and all you have to pay for is the... GAS
then more power to you
if you have enough fun money to be that particular.. I mean if it takes a 5000 mile round trip by ship.. to glue your
SCRAP!!!
" NORTH AMERICAN HARD ROCK MAPLE"
wood together,..
but hey at least you are living green...
worriedbeef said:they don't do anything 'for you' per se.
I am really struggling to see your logic. You're found a cue/shaft that obviously suits you because you were getting results with it - and because this particular combination of you + cue works too well, you no longer want to use it?
I think I can see where you are mistaken. Please let me explain.
You said: "this particular combination of you + cue works too well"
There was merely the cue working too well while the other major part of playing this game (the player = me) was playing much worse then before. I mean the cue worked well and just as stated by Predator - hell a lot of spin with minimal deflection. Meanwhile I was "working" much worse then before as I was not forced to play my best to shoot better pool. I got the cue, I could draw more than anytime before, I could use never-seen-before English... but that wasn't because of me, but because of a tool. And I knew that pretty much anyone could do the same if they bought the same equipment. From that time on it wasn't the indian but the bow.
Another example, after this I'll stop bothering you and STFU, but I feel like I must say this:
I am not a good chef and I don't like messing with food => hence I buy a good cooker and / or a microwave oven that will do all the tricks for me and I needn't read tons of books, spend a lot of time in the kitchen getting to know how to cook 1st grade meals. Like I said, for this, I like to purchase tools that do nearly everything for me.
I'd like to be a good pool player one day and for that I'd like to say that it's me being a good player, not a player who own's a good performing cue. I don't want to spend time in the kitchen, but I'd like to spend time in a pool hall. And whenever I am there I want it to be ME pocketing balls and doing the positioning and not my equipment. I don't give a damn about the gastronimcal value of my food but I care a lot for my game.
It would be a shame if I played with a Predator and then one day I made it to the States to buy myself a nice cue - a Capone, a TAD, whatever (just a few names that popped out of my mind) - and I couldn't pocket a single ball with it! And everyone would know that a TAD or a Capone are great cues (or most would say "better" cues) then a Predator... and I still couldn't play with it?
Another thing to think about is how much is costs to R & D new products and also PATENT the techniques used in the cues. Those things along with assorted legal fees cost money and aren't part of every cue company's overhead.
Fatboy said:
I was being generous, I'm sure your right.
One of the companies I used to work for manufactured a grinding wheel in China that cost us $.08 to make and Walmart sells it for $3.00
If the ebay sellers can sell an off brand maple shaft from China for $29.00 it obviously costs just a few dollars to manufacture so you can bet a Predator shaft doesn't cost much more than that, likely less than $10.00.
Preferences...................
I've read the majority of the posts in this thread and thought I would give my perspective and experience.
I tried Preadator shafts MANY years ago and I wasn't impressed with them. Maybe I didn't have enough talent to see what everyone saw in them back then and went back to standard maple shafts. Maybe I didn't have enough knowledge of the physics of pool to make the decision to stay with the lower deflection shafts. The bottom line is at that time, I didn't LIKE Predator shafts.
A couple of months ago I played with another player's Predator cue and tried the 314-2 and the Z-2 shaft and found that for MY game, the 314-2 suited me just fine. In fact, I was able to make certain shots more consistently than with my standard Maple Shaft so that got me interested in trying a 314-2 with my Bender cue. Mike Bender made a duplicate collar with the 314-2 blank that he just happened to have had in stock from another customer who at the last minute changed his mind. So now I am playing with the 314-2 shaft and liking it quite well.
In MY mind, the change is positively affecting my game but if the truth be known, it could be other factors as well. Time will only tell if my game has improved because of the shaft change or other things.
The bottom line is the people who play with Predator shafts/cues do so because they like them.
Cue and shaft selection are very similar to choosing an automobile. It is personal and what one person likes, another can't stand. It's what makes the world go 'round.
FTR, I think you can play almost as well with any cue/shaft that you become comfortable with however if you THINK you play better with one shaft over another, YOU WILL.
JoeyA
I've read the majority of the posts in this thread and thought I would give my perspective and experience.
I tried Preadator shafts MANY years ago and I wasn't impressed with them. Maybe I didn't have enough talent to see what everyone saw in them back then and went back to standard maple shafts. Maybe I didn't have enough knowledge of the physics of pool to make the decision to stay with the lower deflection shafts. The bottom line is at that time, I didn't LIKE Predator shafts.
A couple of months ago I played with another player's Predator cue and tried the 314-2 and the Z-2 shaft and found that for MY game, the 314-2 suited me just fine. In fact, I was able to make certain shots more consistently than with my standard Maple Shaft so that got me interested in trying a 314-2 with my Bender cue. Mike Bender made a duplicate collar with the 314-2 blank that he just happened to have had in stock from another customer who at the last minute changed his mind. So now I am playing with the 314-2 shaft and liking it quite well.
In MY mind, the change is positively affecting my game but if the truth be known, it could be other factors as well. Time will only tell if my game has improved because of the shaft change or other things.
The bottom line is the people who play with Predator shafts/cues do so because they like them.
Cue and shaft selection are very similar to choosing an automobile. It is personal and what one person likes, another can't stand. It's what makes the world go 'round.
FTR, I think you can play almost as well with any cue/shaft that you become comfortable with however if you THINK you play better with one shaft over another, YOU WILL.
JoeyA
I'm certainly not against Predator cues, they really are good quality cues, actually I am impressed by what they have accomplished.
It's an amazing feat to impress pool players, many custom builders can't even pull it off and get a foot in the door and here Predator is building cues in China and our somewhat elitist and certainly picky pool community embraces their product for the most part and pays a premium to get it.
More power to them, it's just that the whole thing surprises me, traditionally we have for the most part turned our noses up at Asian production cues.
It's an amazing feat to impress pool players, many custom builders can't even pull it off and get a foot in the door and here Predator is building cues in China and our somewhat elitist and certainly picky pool community embraces their product for the most part and pays a premium to get it.
More power to them, it's just that the whole thing surprises me, traditionally we have for the most part turned our noses up at Asian production cues.
Just one man's opinion but I hate them. Feel hollow and they are always way too light for me. I have been using a Universal Smart Shaft for about 2 years now and God forbid the day I can't get another. Might need to stockpile them so I never have to worry about that.
Much praise goes out to Bill Stroud who invented them.
Much praise goes out to Bill Stroud who invented them.
Dawgie said:
Everyone wants "American made", but nobody wants to pay for it. When I lived in Ohio, this seemed to be the popular mentality, but the same people shopped at WalMart. (Not saying this is you, Dawgie... just making a point.)
As far as Predator, they make a great product. Its a top of the line production cue and starting at $340, I dont think they are unreasonable.
cleary said:
Their break cue starts at $340.00, the playing cues start at closer to $500.00 don't they?
You can buy an American made custom for less than $500.00, now again I am not knocking Predator, it just amazes me that people pay this kind of money for an Asian production line cue.
I am also not knocking anyone for owning or buying one, if they hit the way you like who cares where they are made and what they cost, be happy!
Am I lucky?
I disagree with this statement as I have a number of Phillipino cues that I never had any problems with.
Kevin
poolplayer2093 said:
I disagree with this statement as I have a number of Phillipino cues that I never had any problems with.
Kevin
Koop said:
Koop, you make a very valid point about them feeling hollow. It took a lot of staying power to get over the "different" feeling of hit that they have. I almost put it in the closet after coming under pressure from an opponent that was giving me all I could stand. Others have complained that they are too light but I don't feel that way at all.
Everyone has preferences and that's what keeps all of the cue builders in business.
JoeyA