Why do some people suck at pool?

Well, it wasn't meant as a psychoanalysis of you. But of each one of us. How we react to things, and how we perform, is all based on genetic wiring of our brain to start with, (some start out easier than others) and our experiences determine the rest of the wiring in our brain. That wiring can be changed if one so desires. We can make tasks difficult, or easy. We can achieve the highest possible for ourselves, or mentally hold ourselves back for a variety of reasons.

Even Mosconi knew that in his own way. He himself stated that there were better players than he was. But, they didn't want it as bad as he did, and always found some way to lose. Willie always found some way to win. He was comfortable at the top, and did what it took to stay there. Many, many, people have the skills to be great. They just don't have the mentality to be great. It takes both. Whoever stated that after a certain point, the game is 90% mental, was exactly right.

Yeah well, I bet even Mosconi never missed a shot he'd never made before. ;)

My comment wasn't made to explain the deep psychological reasons I or anyone else are not better than we are. As I alluded to in a further post it was simply to illustrate that the difference in speeds between players is sometimes just a matter of frequency - the better player makes a given shot more often or gets shape more often. And often times, as in my baseball analogy, there isn't a whole lot of difference in the frequency looking at the percentages. But getting to that next level can take a lot of work.;)
 
That's probably why Ronnie is superstar. He does not have these problems and his precision skills are exceptional. :)

I used to have this problem myself, hopefully not anymore. It was very frustrating.

I had to adjust every day and sometimes my center shifted during one night couple times. What really happened, my right eye used to be the dominant one. After some time it became weaker and I suspect the brain was adjusting to the change.

I was pleasantly surprised when I played several weeks ago after a break and everything was working "out of the box". I just came and started pocketing balls. My consistency improved a lot. Then I went to the pool hall again and experienced the same result.

This is when I realized my dominant eye had changed and my recent visit to optometrist confirmed the strength gap between of my right and left eye increased. The good part .... I do not have to fight this problem anymore (I hope). I have left dominant eye now. :)

Do you have any sources to back that up?

Just curious, because I don't know if I've ever seen a professional player change the alignment of their cue, i.e. Ronnie O'Sullivan's cue is always under his left eye.

Then again, maybe that's why they're professionals ;)
 
Yeah well, I bet even Mosconi never missed a shot he'd never made before. ;)

My comment wasn't made to explain the deep psychological reasons I or anyone else are not better than we are. As I alluded to in a further post it was simply to illustrate that the difference in speeds between players is sometimes just a matter of frequency - the better player makes a given shot more often or gets shape more often. And often times, as in my baseball analogy, there isn't a whole lot of difference in the frequency looking at the percentages. But getting to that next level can take a lot of work.;)

I totally agree that there is actually a small percentage change in the differences. And, that it usually is very difficult to make that change. I also added my view of what that difference is. They have proven they have the skills necessary, or they wouldn't even be close. So, it has to be something else. I believe that something else is all in ones mentality.
 
I've always been in the skeptical camp when it comes to certain aiming systems and their overall benefit to one's game but I do think that lifelong horrible players -- and we all know who they are -- consistently have aiming issues.

When I watch these guys and gals closely I'm not even sure if they aim at all. Even if they do, 9 players out of 10 are doing all of their "aiming" while down over the ball. It seems like this is a fundamental step they bypassed many table hours ago and they never correct this issue. I think part of the reason for this is historically - good players when asked how they aim would say something along the lines of "you just have to see the shot." So the lesser players would take this to mean that there's really no repeatable approach to aiming and so they just get down over the ball and wiggle around for a bit and then shoot. Of course this is just my theory but it would explain how someone could play for years and still approach each and every shot like it’s their first one.

If you skip the aiming step, it's nearly impossible to ever have a repeatable stroke because every shot is handled in a unique fashion. I see it all the time.

So in answer to the original poster's question - do you think an aiming system would help these players?

I say absolutely.
 
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I started learning the guitar recently. There are all kinds of books, DVDs, you tube about learning to play the guitar.

I could spend all kinds of money on them and lessons.

But these are not a substitute for a well thought out plan for learning and a well thought plan out practice routine.

One chooseS to practices properly.
One choose what they needed to learn to move on.
Or one chooses not to.

It is really that simple. I see players practicing badly and they wonder why they do not improve. This is why I say they choose to pay badly because the choose not to practice properly.

It ain't no system, no LD shaft, no TOI, no glove, and it definetly aint just talk a good game.

It is high quality practice and lots of it.....if one chooses.
 
This is good. I have the want but I'm still working on the focus and mental strength to believe in my game. This is actually true for both pool and golf. Last two years I made some good strides in my golf game, it was a commitment to working consistently towards getting better and after lots of struggles thing have finally started clicking for me there.

Hopefully in a little more time the same will happen with pool. I need to remember that taking 5 years off pretty much renders that first year of play worthless other than the knowledge I've been able to keep. Stroke work and things like that were totally lost though. So, I'm only 1 year in now, hopefully in another year or two I'll start seeing some real improvements.

With regards to aiming system, I don't have one. I just use ghost ball. I'm interested in other aiming systems but I don't know where to start with one. I've tried finding a good CTE video that covers th basics to get me started but I've yet to find one that really explains the basics of the system in a way that makes sense. I suppose one of these days I'll just have to spring for the actual videos, but was hoping to get a useable preview first to see if it was a good fit for me.


Learning an "aiming system" should be hands on.
randyg
 
I started learning the guitar recently. There are all kinds of books, DVDs, you tube about learning to play the guitar.

I could spend all kinds of money on them and lessons.

But these are not a substitute for a well thought out plan for learning and a well thought plan out practice routine.

One chooseS to practices properly.
One choose what they needed to learn to move on.
Or one chooses not to.

It is really that simple. I see players practicing badly and they wonder why they do not improve. This is why I say they choose to pay badly because the choose not to practice properly.

It ain't no system, no LD shaft, no TOI, no glove, and it definetly aint just talk a good game.

It is high quality practice and lots of it.....if one chooses.

As someone who has played guitar for over 18 years, let me give you one piece of advice.

Unless you find out that you are a prodigy (doubtful), or have experience with other instruments, I would highly suggest you at least pick up some basic instruction. There's plenty of free stuff on the internet to choose from.

You are correct about having a proper practice plan, but unless you have previous experience or instruction, you won't have a clue as to what a proper practice plan might be.

Side bar; what kind of guitar do you have and what style(s) are you most interested in learning?
 
I've always been in the skeptical camp when it comes to certain aiming systems and their overall benefit to one's game but I do think that lifelong horrible players -- and we all know who they are -- consistently have aiming issues.

When I watch these guys and gals closely I'm not even sure if they aim at all. Even if they do, 9 players out of 10 are doing all of their "aiming" while down over the ball. It seems like this is a fundamental step they bypassed many table hours ago and they never correct this issue. I think part of the reason for this is historically - good players when asked how they aim would say something along the lines of "you just have to see the shot." So the lesser players would take this to mean that there's really no repeatable approach to aiming and so they just get down over the ball and wiggle around for a bit and then shoot. Of course this is just my theory but it would explain how someone could play for years and still approach each and every shot like it’s their first one.

If you skip the aiming step, it's nearly impossible to ever have a repeatable stroke because ever shot is handled in a unique fashion. I see it all the time.

So in answer to the original poster's question - do you think an aiming system would help these players?

I say absolutely.

Hmm....It would be great if it was possible to take one of these players and make him or her a couple of balls better. It is just that I've never seen it happen, sure with beginners but never with lifetime C/D players. Once you've been a C- for a decade it seems that it's very very hard to do anything about it. Worst of all: many players like this are stubborn and proud as well, refusing to take any advice even from elite players. Perhaps this is another big piece of the puzzle.

It would make a great challenge for someone like Stan Shuffet to get a confirmed C "lifer" and turn him around and make him a pocketing machine. And then there are people like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvds9vz8TM8
 
I feel like it's a lot of things that keeps a C player a C player. I hear it said a lot that it has to do with mentality, but that's a really broad category. But I think I'll just rant a bit:
They don't plan ahead. On an open and run-able table, they don't plan the next shot, and just keep shooting until they run out of things to shoot. They don't solve problems, and you can see it in their eyes. They see a ball that can goes in a pocket, they shoot it, and look for another open ball. I think their brains are just wired to not believe a run-out is even a possibility, so they just keep pocketing balls until they miss.

Another one that kills me, is I see players try to emulate what they consider to be better players (who are usually just lifetime C-players who have been playing longer) but without any of the understanding. On a wide open table, they just start banging in balls like they run 8 balls every day. They'll move quick from shot to shot, like it's natural, but nothing they've ever done prior, would suggest that they can run 8 balls naturally.
Shapes a mess, and they pretend that that's where they intended for the cue-ball to go all along. I hate when a player just pounds the cue-ball, and it luckily is somehow getting shape on a random ball they didn't choose, and they wave it in like they're helping someone back up a truck. When I started my first league I bought me and my league partner laser pointers, so that we could literally point to the area we wanted the cue-ball to go. I was getting so frustrated because here I am trying to learn how to play position and being godawful, and he's waving his truck in. Having him point at the area he wanted at least got him to clue in on how awful he was, so that we could be awful together.

I think some people are just naturally gifted and have an instinct for the game, but even so, at some point or another, you need to do the research to understand how pool works (physics etc). I think a lot of C-players are the culmination of years of experience. They've naturally learned and figured out everything they know by themselves without any outside information. The everyday example of what a man can accomplish with just himself and a pool table, and it sucks.

Sorry if this was mean, it just bugs me so much. I'm new to pool, but I work hard at it, and I'm just at the point, where I can safely expect to run-out at least once a night. And I can feel the local players that I'm trying to learn from sucking me down. They are my mentors because they were better than me 6 months ago. Their advice now, seems terrible. They'll wonder why I made a tougher shot, when there was an easy shot (usually a hanger). Here I am trying to break out a problem ball, and I ask them when it's correct to solve it, and they don't even have a plan for it. They say they'll worry about it later, and 6 balls later, it's still a problem. I get their logic though, from the perspective of trying to score as many points as possible because it's league (1 pt per ball). So I understand trying to get as many points as you can, And there's been a few times where I look stupid cause I'm trying to fix all my problems instead of putting down object balls and I'll lose like 10-3, but I think forgoing the short term advantages is important. I need to think like a player who is going to run-out consistently even if I can't at the moment.

I think there's just a complete difference between a lifetime C-player, and a temporary C-player. The way they think about the game is just completely different from start to finish. It's not a quick fix, and I never realized that it was such a huge difference until I started writing this.

Rant Over
 
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I feel like it's a lot of things that keeps a C player a C player. I hear it said a lot that it has to do with mentality, but that's a really broad category. But I think I'll just rant a bit:
They don't plan ahead. On an open and run-able table, they don't plan the next shot, and just keep shooting until they run out of things to shoot. They don't solve problems, and you can see it in their eyes. They see a ball that can goes in a pocket, they shoot it, and look for another open ball. I think their brains are just wired to not believe a run-out is even a possibility, so they just keep pocketing balls until they.
Another one that kills me, is I see players try to emulate what they consider to be better players (who are usually just lifetime C-players who have been playing longer) but without any of the understanding. On a wide open table, they just start banging in balls like they run 8 balls every day. They'll move quick from shot to shot, like it's natural, but nothing they've ever done prior, would suggest that they can run 8 balls naturally.
Shapes a mess, and they pretend that that's where they intended for the cue-ball to go all along. I hate when a player just pounds the cue-ball, and it luckily is somehow getting shape on a random ball they didn't choose, and they wave it in like they're helping someone back up a truck. When I started my first league I bought me and my league partner laser pointers, so that we could literally point to the area we wanted the cue-ball to go. I was getting so frustrated because here I am trying to learn how to play position and being godawful, and he's waving his truck in. Having him point at the area he wanted at least got him to clue in on how awful he was, so that we could be awful together.

I think some people are just naturally gifted and have an instinct for the game, but even so, at some point or another, you need to do the research to understand how pool works (physics etc). I think a lot of C-players are the culmination of years of experience. They've naturally learned and figured out everything they know by themselves without any outside information. The everyday example of what a man can accomplish with just himself and a pool table, and it sucks.

Sorry if this was mean, it just bugs me so much. I'm new to pool, but I work hard at it, and I'm just at the point, where I can safely expect to run-out at least once a night. And I can feel the local players that I'm trying to learn from sucking me down. They are my mentors because they were better than me 6 months ago. Their advice now, seems terrible. They'll wonder why I made a tougher shot, when there was an easy shot (usually a hanger). Here I am trying to break out a problem ball, and I ask them when it's correct to solve it, and they don't even have a plan for it. They say they'll worry about it later, and 6 balls later, it's still a problem. I get their logic though, from the perspective of trying to score as many points as possible because it's league (1 pt per ball). So I understand trying to get as many points as you can, And there's been a few times where I look stupid cause I'm trying to fix all my problems instead of putting down object balls and I'll lose like 10-3, but I think forgoing the short term advantages is important. I need to think like a player who is going to run-out consistently even if I can't at the moment.

I think there's just a complete difference between a lifetime C-player, and a temporary C-player. The way they think about the game is just completely different from start to finish. It's not a quick fix, and I never realized that it was such a huge difference until I started writing this.

Rant Over

That was a good post. I found it interesting how you keyed in on one of the large problems with league play. When league is all you play, your mindset is totally different than a player who is trying to win actual games, not just make balls. Makes a huge difference.
 
Why do people suck at playing pool.......real simple.......because they choose to.
Funny... I thought this guy was talking about you!

People suck because they choose to? Some people practice hard their whole life and still suck. Maybe the game is hard?

I think this game requires a state of mind that some simply can't achieve no matter what they choose or how hard they practice.
 
What a great thread this is. No old men reminiscing bitterly, no droning about gambling, no CJ bloody Wiley, no shameless CTE shilling...

This sort of stuff should be on the main forum.
 
What a great thread this is. No old men reminiscing bitterly, no droning about gambling, no CJ bloody Wiley, no shameless CTE shilling...

This sort of stuff should be on the main forum.

You're right, a thread this civil sure has no business in the aiming forum. :grin:
 
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