i like the break box rule and 9 on the spot better no cut breaking and the 1 ball is not so easy to make in the side
Why do they still have the stupid unfair break rule at World Cup?
- Thread starter hang-the-9
- Start date
I respect your opinion, but did you see the break that cost India the match? Even the announcers questioned whether the illegal break was caused by him being full of adrenaline and breaking the balls too hard.
I don't like the rule either. And I think India actually made 2 balls on that break and had a third hanging in the jaws, but nothing got to the head string.
The objective of the rule is to prevent soft breaks, under the belief that games that start that way are less interesting for the fans, or take more time, or create too much repetition in the patterns, or just aren't the way 9-ball was intended to be played. But Matchroom is probably not ignorant of views like we are expressing in this thread. So they must have a reason or two for using this particular method of preventing soft breaking. And they would certainly know about the possibility of using today's technology to measure cue-ball speed. Maybe they just prefer to have spectators be able to actually see whether the requirement is satisfied, rather than having someone off-screen ruling "good" or "bad." Maybe they have some other reason.
But I'd prefer they just set a minimum break speed (at a level any decent player would have no trouble meeting) and use today's technology to measure it.
Edit -- StraightPool IU -- you make a good point about the breaker accepting the tradeoff of using a cut break to make the 1-ball vs. the possibility of an illegal break.
Last edited:
I guess my definition of "fair" is different from everyone else's. Fair is everyone playing by the same rules. If one team was required to make or get 3 balls past the head string, and the opponents were only required one, that would be unfair. The Mosconi Cup has the same requirement.
There is nothing "unfair" about it at all. It just rubs some people the wrong way because it goes against the "traditional" rules of playing pool. But unfair? No. Not even close.
Its been said many times on this forum.....THE BREAK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SHOT IN A GAME OF POOL. If your break cannot meet the requirements of the tournament, then I guess someone needs to work on their break. I didn't hear of any teams refusing to play because of this requirement. And if they did, then so long.....see ya.....don't let the door hit you in the ass!
Point being.....there are many tournaments, and many different rule sets in place. If this 3 ball requirement is required for an amateur tournament, many of you might have a point. But these are professionals. They should know how to deal with it. If India lost because of the 3 ball rule, then they need to work on their break. The other teams are dealing with it just fine. Unfair? I just can't get there.
There is nothing "unfair" about it at all. It just rubs some people the wrong way because it goes against the "traditional" rules of playing pool. But unfair? No. Not even close.
Its been said many times on this forum.....THE BREAK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SHOT IN A GAME OF POOL. If your break cannot meet the requirements of the tournament, then I guess someone needs to work on their break. I didn't hear of any teams refusing to play because of this requirement. And if they did, then so long.....see ya.....don't let the door hit you in the ass!
Point being.....there are many tournaments, and many different rule sets in place. If this 3 ball requirement is required for an amateur tournament, many of you might have a point. But these are professionals. They should know how to deal with it. If India lost because of the 3 ball rule, then they need to work on their break. The other teams are dealing with it just fine. Unfair? I just can't get there.
I like this post. It would be unfair if everyone arrived at the WCOP and was told at the last moment what the break rule would be. Here, however, the break rule is the same every year. Hence, all participants have months to prepare for use of this break.
Personally, like a previous poster, I prefer the nine on the spot, break from the box format, but these are the rules used to take away soft breaking, and they do seem to achieve that.
I wasn't talking about how hard they're hitting them although it is true that some guys aren't breaking full speed. I was referring to the cut break and not hitting the 1 full. When the cueball cuts the head ball not all of its energy is going to the rack. That leads to the 1 in the side yes, but also more balls around the rack area and illegal breaks.
Last edited:
Nothing wrong with that. But I've been using the Break Speed app for a while now, and it has the tendency to have errors. When an error is suspected, you have to open the waveform and make adjustments. This takes approximately 40 to 45 seconds. Then there would be a new tread about how matches are being held up because of inferior technology. Technology is NOT always the answer. Maybe change the break requirement to 3 balls have to cross mid table instead of the head string?
If there wasn't an element of randomness/luck inherent with the break then I would be inclined to agree with you. However some illegal breaks don't occur due to something that the breaker did or didn't do. I like how Inaction made light of the randomness of the rule in post #8 when he said if the if the 9 ball stripe is horizontal it's one team's turn and if the stripe is vertical then it's the other teams turn.
They had a ball drop, a ball go past the line and one hang up. Then everyone paused while they looked at the replay (I think that's what they were doing) and England took over.
Another poster said if we would be upset if it happened to another team, I would be. I don't want anyone to be penalized for a good shot because someone made up a bad rule.
Another similar thing I hate is handicapping in leauges and tournaments when it's not done right. I don't care if I have to spot someone 2 games IF THAT PERSON REALLY PLAYS LIKE THAT. I will not stand to watch some low ranked player run out 4-5-6 balls a turn and play two way shots even if they miss or have a guy that beats me even in tournaments all of a sudden be given a game or two on the wire when we play in league.
Fair is fair, but this rule sucks even if both teams can be affected by it.
Setup a radar gun, set some minimum speed rating for the break (I said 15mph earlier, that's probably a good one to use), and that's it. Or make it so 2 balls crossing the string is OK, that is a lot more likely to happen than 3 even if you hit as card as you can.
They had this rule for a while, and I don't see how whoever sets up this tournament does not get the fact that it's a bad rule. Heck I'm sure the refs know that, they can't say "you know, maybe you overdid that rule" and get it changed? I'm hoping Earl has something to say about it during an interview.
Last edited:
Good point, but making a ball on the break is random also. You could say most professionals can routinely make the one ball in the side. But if they happen to miss it, isn't that random in itself? If all competitors are held to the same rule or standard, then its fair. The thread was started to discuss fairness. Not if the rule is good or bad for the game. Just like breaking from the box. That's not "unfair" because someone can no longer routinely make the one in the side....as long as everyone is playing using the same rule, its fair.
You really think someone can work on avoiding a ball getting kissed out of some area or having it hit the point of a pocket and be sent up table? That's a ridiculous idea. You can work on making a ball on the break from different areas, you can work on sending the cueball in certain areas. No one on the planet can work on predicting where on the table the balls will go when you are forced to break hard.
Just because both sided use the same rule does not make it any better. It's just evenly unjust. The rule is not fair becaue the players are breking hard, making a ball and then can't play anyway. They did not make up that rule just because, they did it to prevent soft breaks. Well there are no soft breaks, but the rule still messes with them despite that.
Last edited:
^^^^Good pt.!!! Lol
No, not a good point because a potted ball (on the break) counts.
The are replaying the hill hill rack, I did not even realize India got screwed on that one as well. Hill Hill make a ball and the other team takes over! A 3rd ball was slowly heading towards the line but the cueball kicked it out.
Everyone that fell victim to this break rule should line up in front of whoever thought of it and continues to use it, and kick him in the nuts. One year of this, sure lets experiment, but it clearly sucks as a rule so why keep it? How can the players not talk to them about this rule, I am sure NO-ONE likes it. Too bad pool is so out of the hands of the players that they gladly go to lick the balls of whoever offers them a bone no matter what.
Everyone that fell victim to this break rule should line up in front of whoever thought of it and continues to use it, and kick him in the nuts. One year of this, sure lets experiment, but it clearly sucks as a rule so why keep it? How can the players not talk to them about this rule, I am sure NO-ONE likes it. Too bad pool is so out of the hands of the players that they gladly go to lick the balls of whoever offers them a bone no matter what.
The issue with the break was already fixed ages ago. The solution was called "10-ball".
I have little sympathy for any tournament that still uses 9-ball and tries to screw around with "break rules" trying to make things work. They should get out of the dark ages and realize that 9-ball is a broken game and that 10-ball has pretty much fixed all of the issues that 9-ball had and is the proper game to be played when it comes to "rotation" pool.
This goes to the Matchroom and the Mosconi Cup too, this will again be a problem in that event, much as it has been in every year past. The event might have a history of being "9-ball" but that game has been largely replaced and every year they keep drawing things out and trying to use the "old" game and every year it causes issues. They will either eventually switch to 10-ball or they will cease to exist as an event, the sooner they figure this out and switch the better.
I have little sympathy for any tournament that still uses 9-ball and tries to screw around with "break rules" trying to make things work. They should get out of the dark ages and realize that 9-ball is a broken game and that 10-ball has pretty much fixed all of the issues that 9-ball had and is the proper game to be played when it comes to "rotation" pool.
This goes to the Matchroom and the Mosconi Cup too, this will again be a problem in that event, much as it has been in every year past. The event might have a history of being "9-ball" but that game has been largely replaced and every year they keep drawing things out and trying to use the "old" game and every year it causes issues. They will either eventually switch to 10-ball or they will cease to exist as an event, the sooner they figure this out and switch the better.
Thank you. You just made my point. The discussion wasn't about the rule being just or unjust. It was about fairness. And its completely fair as long as I applies to everyone.
I suggest if you don't like the rule, then don't enter the WCOP.
JC
Coos Cues
I'm not talking about a five dollar phone app. These guys have a bit more in the budget than that. I'm talking about the radar guns they use for baseball games. They are not all that expensive all things considered.
JC