Why does the latest generation
- Thread starter deanoc
- Start date
Why do you call it judy...first time I’ve heard that.
In our day, Dean, there were more good players...a champion’s road trip could end in
some small town where the local champ didn’t miss.
The players we see now are the cream of the crop, and technology is allowing us to see.
....and they have decades of knowledge handed down to them.
But in the action days there were lots of players who didn’t know how good the were....
...and there was lots of them.
I know Hubbart more than once pulled Sigel out of action while they still had money.
Jim Mataya was losing his money all day getting the 8 from an unknown in a small room
off the beaten track....room closed for the night while he still money....
...next day he went back and introduced himself...said...”I’m Jim Mataya, I’m the World
Champion...today we’re going to play even.”
....then he won
There are no longer champions in the woodwork, they’re all known...
...and there’s a lot less
Talent & Progress have no finish line.
Correct you are. When I was little cars could use a tune up after 30,000 miles and it made a big difference.
Nowa days cars can go for 100,000 before you need to touch then and after you will be lucky to notice any difference.
When we have seen the best....better comes along. I'm waiting the next Dr. J and Michael Jordan. Is there another Efren or is he once in our lifetime? Good question as to Why does the latest generation excel. The cue or table have nothing to do with it. Go figure.
different era it is.
way back the players were just as good mind you. the equipment wasnt and didnt allow for many of those shots to be played.
plus now the great one pocket players except for efrin all came from 9 ball and arent the brightest star in the sky. efrin is very intelligent. they think one or maybe two shots ahead. the old time greats at one pocket took up one pocket because it was a game of thinking and they were smarter. they thought more shots ahead and didnt get in many of those spots.
many of those greats from the past werent smart and didnt take up one pocket as they couldnt outplay those of their same speed in 9 ball.
that is part of the answer dean as you should know as you were around it.
way back the players were just as good mind you. the equipment wasnt and didnt allow for many of those shots to be played.
plus now the great one pocket players except for efrin all came from 9 ball and arent the brightest star in the sky. efrin is very intelligent. they think one or maybe two shots ahead. the old time greats at one pocket took up one pocket because it was a game of thinking and they were smarter. they thought more shots ahead and didnt get in many of those spots.
many of those greats from the past werent smart and didnt take up one pocket as they couldnt outplay those of their same speed in 9 ball.
that is part of the answer dean as you should know as you were around it.
Judy Jetson?
Pool is no different than any other sport. Each generation is better. The best players that ever played the game are playing today. My generation could not compete today. I went to a state high school swimming meet this past March. I researched Mark Spitz times when he was at his best. He could not have won a single event in that meet. This is high school. In some events, he could not have even qualified to swim in the finals. It is like that with every sport.
I will say this: My generation (60s-70s) had by far, the best pool culture in pool history. The people were so much fun! Man-oh-man. Every day was a new adventure. Nobody practiced. There wasn't time. There was too much happening.
I will say this: My generation (60s-70s) had by far, the best pool culture in pool history. The people were so much fun! Man-oh-man. Every day was a new adventure. Nobody practiced. There wasn't time. There was too much happening.
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The BEST cues as well......:bow-down:
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Each subsequent generation is bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, and has the benefit of newer technology.
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My "food for thought"
There are many reasons, but here are a few in my opinion.
1. They're not lamenting the absence of Willie Mosconi, Irving Crane, Don Willis, Ronnie Allen, or any of those dinosaurs from the past. And they don’t waste valuable mental energy giving those guys any sentimental reverence or allegiance they don't deserve. And they don’t try to copy them.
2. They're not concerned with "who robbed who" 50 years ago at Johnston City, or who carried two .38 pistols, or how many boxing matches somebody won, or how "baaaaad" everyone was at Bensingers. They live IN THE PRESENT. As far as they’re concerned the ancient history is for old pool room drunks sitting around half asleep.
3. The Asians are very disciplined mentally...they start out that way and it carries over into just about everything they do.
4. The newer generation of players is creative and they embrace modern ideas and concepts readily.
There are many reasons, but here are a few in my opinion.
1. They're not lamenting the absence of Willie Mosconi, Irving Crane, Don Willis, Ronnie Allen, or any of those dinosaurs from the past. And they don’t waste valuable mental energy giving those guys any sentimental reverence or allegiance they don't deserve. And they don’t try to copy them.
2. They're not concerned with "who robbed who" 50 years ago at Johnston City, or who carried two .38 pistols, or how many boxing matches somebody won, or how "baaaaad" everyone was at Bensingers. They live IN THE PRESENT. As far as they’re concerned the ancient history is for old pool room drunks sitting around half asleep.
3. The Asians are very disciplined mentally...they start out that way and it carries over into just about everything they do.
4. The newer generation of players is creative and they embrace modern ideas and concepts readily.
Its just the natural evolution of the equipment and player. In the past you were limited in education to the skills of the players in your local vicinity or how far you were willing to travel. You could play one pocket for years and not be exposed to the caliber of players or shots you can now find in minutes on youtube. Jeremy said something interesting in the 10ball commentary this weekend that applies here. He said the equipment is so much better these days that the players today do not have to have the knowledge that the players of yesteryear had to have. The rack spreads better, the balls dont tie up as much, and your stroke dosnt have to be as good as it used to have to be to move Whitney around. I cant think of one sport where play was more superior in the past than today. Imho if you took any of the old guard they would still be champions today after they adjusted to the equipment.
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I have to differ on the stronger, faster and smarter aspects of your statement. I think the top athletes are indeed stronger, faster and perhaps in some ways smarter than those of previous generations, mainly because of starting on their competitive path earlier and having the benefit of more advanced nutrition, medical service and training. However, going simply by my own observations, the population in general seems to be getting weaker and less intelligent.
I know that as an out of shape 60 year old, I still regularly outlast (non-athlete) guys a third or half of my age when it comes to physical endurance, although I am only about equal or inferior to most other guys of say 50 or older. The same with mental ability such as using general math, geometry or algebra, doing geographical navigation, moderately complex problem solving, etc.... I understand that the mental differences can be partly attributed to a larger store of knowledge due to spending more time alive, but that doesn't account for the whole difference, particularly when today's youth seem far less interested in learning anything new than my generation was and is.
My theory is that because of the advance of technology that makes our lives physically easier and mentally less challenging we are getting weaker as a species in general rather than stronger. Of course there are exceptions to this general trend, but I am talking about the whole first-world population as a whole. Technology props us up in medicine, nutrition, labor saving machines, etc, but if you remove those props each generation in recent history would be exposed as weaker than those that came before.
Just my 2-cents worth, and as I say this is only from what I have seen myself. I haven't looked into any scientific research that may be out there on this, but I have always been pretty well served by trusting my own observations.
bigger stronger faster, so what?
Let's grant that today's generation is bigger stronger faster, plain better athletes. Smarts are a combination of raw brain power and learning. I'm none too sure today's generation is smarter other than a fairly small percentage. They certainly aren't smarter about pool, I think the opposite is true for the most part. The players of yesteryear were big enough, strong enough, and fast enough to play on that day's tables. They are certainly big enough, strong enough, and fast enough to play on today's without handicapping themselves.
The main reasons, perhaps the only reasons, today's players are better are equipment and playing conditions. Even in the sixties and seventies some of the places I played had no air conditioning, holes in the ceiling/roof that I could see stars through, cracks between the flooring planks that meant there was never need to pick up dust or cigarette butts when sweeping, they both went between the cracks. The only leveling of the table in decades was the beer coasters under the legs, sometimes under all four legs! One in awhile I took out dozens of coasters and started over. The cloth was original issue, decades old. The sweat, beer, cigarette ash, lord knows what all had the once green cloth a nasty gray.
The bugs deserve their own paragraph. Mostly just powered over termites, mosquitoes and small bugs. June bugs and bigger were deserving of respect. They would send balls in all new directions and there is no learning how to carom off of a june bug! Wasps and hornets deserved respect. Running over them was apt to annoy them and they would retaliate on whomever was closest, not necessarily the shooter.
Today we expect perfect tables, a cool place to play, and excellent lighting, something I didn't bother touching on above. We are hothouse players in the US and that certainly includes me. Easy to say we play better in our hothouses with everything perfect. I can't help thinking that the old guys would fair a lot better if they came here today than today's players would fair if we brought back yesterday!
The relatively small country of the Philippines continues to turn out world class players. I think one reason is that they don't learn to play in hothouses. They adapt readily to the conditions they find to compete in.
Hu
Let's grant that today's generation is bigger stronger faster, plain better athletes. Smarts are a combination of raw brain power and learning. I'm none too sure today's generation is smarter other than a fairly small percentage. They certainly aren't smarter about pool, I think the opposite is true for the most part. The players of yesteryear were big enough, strong enough, and fast enough to play on that day's tables. They are certainly big enough, strong enough, and fast enough to play on today's without handicapping themselves.
The main reasons, perhaps the only reasons, today's players are better are equipment and playing conditions. Even in the sixties and seventies some of the places I played had no air conditioning, holes in the ceiling/roof that I could see stars through, cracks between the flooring planks that meant there was never need to pick up dust or cigarette butts when sweeping, they both went between the cracks. The only leveling of the table in decades was the beer coasters under the legs, sometimes under all four legs! One in awhile I took out dozens of coasters and started over. The cloth was original issue, decades old. The sweat, beer, cigarette ash, lord knows what all had the once green cloth a nasty gray.
The bugs deserve their own paragraph. Mostly just powered over termites, mosquitoes and small bugs. June bugs and bigger were deserving of respect. They would send balls in all new directions and there is no learning how to carom off of a june bug! Wasps and hornets deserved respect. Running over them was apt to annoy them and they would retaliate on whomever was closest, not necessarily the shooter.
Today we expect perfect tables, a cool place to play, and excellent lighting, something I didn't bother touching on above. We are hothouse players in the US and that certainly includes me. Easy to say we play better in our hothouses with everything perfect. I can't help thinking that the old guys would fair a lot better if they came here today than today's players would fair if we brought back yesterday!
The relatively small country of the Philippines continues to turn out world class players. I think one reason is that they don't learn to play in hothouses. They adapt readily to the conditions they find to compete in.
Hu
At the height of his abilities, I'd have taken Eddie Taylor against many of todays greats.
