Why don't all cuemakers line up ring work at the joint?

[rhncue]

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat and a lot of different ways to build a cue joint.

In all fairness to everyone; if a customer demands that all his ringwork line up then he should be sure to let the cuemaker know because some just don't feel that it is important.

I always have lined up my ringwork. Here is one of the ways I like to do it so that the customer can purchase an aftermarket shaft if he is so inclined without worrying about the ringwork matching.

Arnot, that is a clever way of keeping rings aligned but it goes against my theories on good cue construction. As you and all who work with wood are aware of, most moisture transfer takes place through the end grain of wood. It is for this reason that I believe that all cues should have a joint, butt cap and shaft collar. They help to protect these areas from chipping, cracking abrasion and moisture transfer. I can see this as working with the solid part of the deco-ring on the shaft however. just my 2 cents worth opinion.

Dick

 

[MVPCues]

Arnot, that is a clever way of keeping rings aligned but it goes against my theories on good cue construction. As you and all who work with wood are aware of, most moisture transfer takes place through the end grain of wood. It is for this reason that I believe that all cues should have a joint, butt cap and shaft collar. They help to protect these areas from chipping, cracking abrasion and moisture transfer. I can see this as working with the solid part of the deco-ring on the shaft however. just my 2 cents worth opinion.

Dick

Look closer Dick. The solid trim ring on butt side of joint is twice the size of the solid trim ring on the shaft side of joint. Another half size collar on the shaft makes for a symmetrical joint when screwed together, and provides a small collar on the shaft.

Arnot can answer for himself ofcourse, but I mentioned this early in the thread (post 13) after another posted described the same kind of thing.

Kelly

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Arnot, that is a clever way of keeping rings aligned but it goes against my theories on good cue construction. As you and all who work with wood are aware of, most moisture transfer takes place through the end grain of wood. It is for this reason that I believe that all cues should have a joint, butt cap and shaft collar. They help to protect these areas from chipping, cracking abrasion and moisture transfer. I can see this as working with the solid part of the deco-ring on the shaft however. just my 2 cents worth opinion.

Dick

I am not sure what you are getting at here but I don't believe there is any more or less end grain exposed with these collars than any other phenolic collars.

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Look closer Dick. The solid trim ring on butt side of joint is twice the size of the solid trim ring on the shaft side of joint. Another half size collar on the shaft makes for a symmetrical joint when screwed together, and provides a small collar on the shaft.

Arnot can answer for himself ofcourse, but I mentioned this early in the thread (post 13) after another posted described the same kind of thing.

Kelly

Thanks for explaining things better than I did. I just thought that the picture was self explanatory but I was wrong.

I posted this picture to show what you were talking about in your original post.

Thanks for your help.

Good Cuemaking,

 

[MVPCues]

Thanks for explaining things better than I did. I just thought that the picture was self explanatory but I was wrong.

I posted this picture to show what you were talking about in your original post.

Thanks for your help.

Good Cuemaking,

You bet.

Kelly

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

You bet.

Kelly

Here is an example of one with the shaft attached:

 

[rhncue]

Look closer Dick. The solid trim ring on butt side of joint is twice the size of the solid trim ring on the shaft side of joint. Another half size collar on the shaft makes for a symmetrical joint when screwed together, and provides a small collar on the shaft.

Arnot can answer for himself ofcourse, but I mentioned this early in the thread (post 13) after another posted described the same kind of thing.

Kelly

Yes, I notice that now. I just assumed that the shaft had no ring at all as described by Royce in his post. At the end of my post I mentioned that this double joint, so to say, would cover all bases with the outer ring on the shaft.
Sorry for the miscommunication.

Dick

 

[qbilder]

I've heard that some even like(d) peanutbutter & bananas. Not exactly my cup of tea (or sandwich), but there you go; individuality and personal choice. Mike Webb uses a word for this type of discussion that I find to be very appropriate; "acceptance". We might all do well to try some.

KJ, you may wish to read my post thoroughly before barking the acceptance speech at me. I don't care what you do, it's your cues. I don't have to accept nor decline them as they have nothing to do with me. If you read my post you'll clearly see I answer the original poster's question with my own ideas on the subject, but by no means ridicule or decline acceptance to any other builder. I could care less what you or any other builder does with your cues. Why would I? You seem like the flame thrower in this scenario. I don't care about your arguement with others, either. Just don't try including me. I line mine up, you don't, who cares? Not me. Again, I wouldn't have had to say any of this if you would have actually read my post instead of jumping the gun with your defensive jabbering. You state your answer, I state mine. What's the fuss about?

 

[JoeyInCali]

Happy New Year.

 

[qbilder]

Happy New Year.

The only difference between one year & another is the number we assign to it. That said, it's been a good year for me so far :grin:

 

[asiasdad]

Paying attention gets cuemakers paid.

Please don't mistake this question as a testament to any remote understanding to a resolve or a found solution, but, I don't understand why not all cuemakers don't line up dashed ringwork to butts and shafts when assembled.

For all the amazing examples out there, why is this so exclusive to high end cuemakers?

My guess would be that the high end cuemakers became high end
cuemakers by paying attention to detail, thus allowing them to
get 3+K for the same material that those not paying attention
get maybe 1K.

I'm not a cuemaker, however I can see the wisdom of
paying attention.

The cuemaker that made this cue for me shipped a threaded
ivory joint protector to me prior to the scrimshaw work
(I already had the cue) to make sure I would mark it
where I wanted the alignment.

That is first class service.

Every point and every ivory diamond in the rings align
dead nutz on from the butt cap to the shafts and
the joint protector.


View attachment 85209

View attachment 85210

 

[HIRUN526]

Details....details

I read this thread earlier today and I wasn't going to post but it has been bothering me all day.

The greatest aspect that I like about the AZ forums is all of the info I can sort through. It is amazing as to what some say and do and how they represent themselves..good,bad,indifferent.

I find this thread extremely wonderful in content and at the same time troubling...some boast of how the asthetic details are unimportant and why a "cuemaker" would not take the time to line up rings or whatever.

As a player and collector it is important to me when a cuemaker is outspoken and boasts of the above and I'm glad to have the knowledge of knowing that I will never buy a cue from someone that does not pay attention to the details no matter how small.

I buy the cuemaker's reputation when I buy the cue and I will have my opinion when I receive the cue and hopefully the reputation will exceed my expectation and that reputation will then be passed on to others.

I personally only buy from cuemakers that believe in doing absolutely their best no matter what price range the cue is in.

I think the real sad thing is that there are cuemaker's on this forum that boast of lack of excellence. If a customer asks for it I will line up .... or I will charge extra.....it takes to much time...I just won't do it.

In buisness,cuemaking,sports or anything the difference between the successful and unsuccessful and winner's and loser's are the attention and commitment to the details.

The cuemaker's that have the greatest reputation's and the greatest popularity and command the highest prices on the secondary market are the one's that pay absolute attention to detail and we all know who they are.

I have always chosen and purchased cue's from the cuemaker's that live by the motto...good is never good enough and are alway's striving to become a better more complete cuemaker.

So for all you cuemaker's that truly give a 100% and love those details I thank you for all that you do and thank you for the wonderful workmanship that you have provided for us cue lover's. I salute you!!!!

 

[KJ Cues]

KJ, you may wish to read my post thoroughly before barking the acceptance speech at me. I don't care what you do, it's your cues. I don't have to accept nor decline them as they have nothing to do with me. If you read my post you'll clearly see I answer the original poster's question with my own ideas on the subject, but by no means ridicule or decline acceptance to any other builder. I could care less what you or any other builder does with your cues. Why would I? You seem like the flame thrower in this scenario. I don't care about your arguement with others, either. Just don't try including me. I line mine up, you don't, who cares? Not me. Again, I wouldn't have had to say any of this if you would have actually read my post instead of jumping the gun with your defensive jabbering. You state your answer, I state mine. What's the fuss about?

Eric,
I'm very confused as to what you're saying.
First, the "barking the acceptance speech at me."
I had no idea that you were posting in this thread and nothing that I have written in this thread has been directed at you. If you look at the post time of your initial post, 10:34am and look at my post time, 11:06am you may be able to understand that I was writing my post while you were posting yours. Trust me, it takes a while for me to write, preview, edit & post.
Again, I had no idea that you were posting or 'what' you were posting so my posts had no reference to you whatsoever. Sorry if there was some confusion there. Since no names have been mentioned in this thread, I am wondering how you took this personally. I can see how you might somehow interpret some direction towards you because my post immediately followed yours but again, that's due to the close posting times. I was writing while you were posting.

"Flame thrower"???
When my 'abilities' are called into question because I have a preference for a technique that differs from others, I feel I have a right and an obligation to correct an injustice and to defend my principles. If you feel that is "defensive jabbering" then call it as you will.
I'm not here to quibble about kibble.

I certainly hope that you didn't take offense at my borrowing your PB&J theme. It was one of those golden moments that just doesn't come around everyday.

PS. Just to give you some reference, it took me over an hour to write and post this.

 

[dave sutton]

kj. not gonna argue anymore. just gonna say a few things and im done. youre right its your cue. do what you want. attacking spelling just proves that you dont have a leg to stand on. btw my iphone just makes up words not me.

tommy and asisasdad said it right. no matter how much you argue attention to detail is what will seperate you from the elite. cant argue that. as a collector i look at points and rings first. if theyre off that cue is not even an option. tommy said it right. chalk wont even make it on the cue bc it will put down immediatly. thats the difference between a 3000$ cue and the same cue for 1000$.

 

[Impact Blue]

I buy the cuemaker's reputation when I buy the cue and I will have my opinion when I receive the cue and hopefully the reputation will exceed my expectation and that reputation will then be passed on to others.

I personally only buy from cuemakers that believe in doing absolutely their best no matter what price range the cue is in.

I think the real sad thing is that there are cuemaker's on this forum that boast of lack of excellence. If a customer asks for it I will line up .... or I will charge extra.....it takes to much time...I just won't do it.

In buisness,cuemaking,sports or anything the difference between the successful and unsuccessful and winner's and loser's are the attention and commitment to the details.

The cuemaker's that have the greatest reputation's and the greatest popularity and command the highest prices on the secondary market are the one's that pay absolute attention to detail and we all know who they are.

I have always chosen and purchased cue's from the cuemaker's that live by the motto...good is never good enough and are alway's striving to become a better more complete cuemaker.

So for all you cuemaker's that truly give a 100% and love those details I thank you for all that you do and thank you for the wonderful workmanship that you have provided for us cue lover's. I salute you!!!!

Thank you for this. It just makes me more pumped to learn more about this craft, in hopes one day I'll be able to have customers and players like yourself.

Now, just where to begin? I would love to be able to sweep the floor of a craftsman with the vigor and excitement I have for this sort of thing.

In my culture, its been swordmaking and traditional garb. To translate that sort of philosophy in to a cue, wow, that'd just be nuts.

 

[Graciocues]

As a cue builder I read the posts like this and get a better understanding of the competition and the people behind the cues.
I pay a lot of attention to the posts from players and collectors (future customers if I'm lucky). Give them what they want.

The last step in my shop is lining up the rings then clearing. I find the more I screw them together before trimming the better they stay lined up.
Most cues are built with 2 and sometimes up to 4 shafts. I'd say 20% of the shafts line up perfectly when I screw them together the first time. If the rings line up on accident do you trim the shaft so they won't line up?

I should stay out of this but I want to know how much effort goes into making sure they don't line up.

 

[qbilder]

Eric,
I'm very confused as to what you're saying.
First, the "barking the acceptance speech at me."
I had no idea that you were posting in this thread and nothing that I have written in this thread has been directed at you. If you look at the post time of your initial post, 10:34am and look at my post time, 11:06am you may be able to understand that I was writing my post while you were posting yours. Trust me, it takes a while for me to write, preview, edit & post.
Again, I had no idea that you were posting or 'what' you were posting so my posts had no reference to you whatsoever. Sorry if there was some confusion there. Since no names have been mentioned in this thread, I am wondering how you took this personally. I can see how you might somehow interpret some direction towards you because my post immediately followed yours but again, that's due to the close posting times. I was writing while you were posting.

"Flame thrower"???
When my 'abilities' are called into question because I have a preference for a technique that differs from others, I feel I have a right and an obligation to correct an injustice and to defend my principles. If you feel that is "defensive jabbering" then call it as you will.
I'm not here to quibble about kibble.

I certainly hope that you didn't take offense at my borrowing your PB&J theme. It was one of those golden moments that just doesn't come around everyday.

PS. Just to give you some reference, it took me over an hour to write and post this.

No harm, no foul, buddy. My mistake. I thought you were griping at me for no reason. I haven't questioned your abilities, but seen some squaking back & forth between a few guys & was being sure I wasn't involved. Again, my bad. I apologise for being snappy.

 

[bandido]

Here's a solution where the shaft will still have a phenolic ring to protect its edge.

 

[bandido]

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat and a lot of different ways to build a cue joint.

In all fairness to everyone; if a customer demands that all his ringwork line up then he should be sure to let the cuemaker know because some just don't feel that it is important.

I always have lined up my ringwork. Here is one of the ways I like to do it so that the customer can purchase an aftermarket shaft if he is so inclined without worrying about the ringwork matching.

The idea is good Arnot and I did consider such configuration before I opted for the above. I just don't feel comfortable with the structural strength of the wood material left between the bottom cavity of the joint pin and the internal diameter of the collar.

Good idea that just needs redimensioning of the components.

 

[cueaddicts]

I read this thread earlier today and I wasn't going to post but it has been bothering me all day.

The greatest aspect that I like about the AZ forums is all of the info I can sort through. It is amazing as to what some say and do and how they represent themselves..good,bad,indifferent.

I find this thread extremely wonderful in content and at the same time troubling...some boast of how the asthetic details are unimportant and why a "cuemaker" would not take the time to line up rings or whatever.

As a player and collector it is important to me when a cuemaker is outspoken and boasts of the above and I'm glad to have the knowledge of knowing that I will never buy a cue from someone that does not pay attention to the details no matter how small.

I buy the cuemaker's reputation when I buy the cue and I will have my opinion when I receive the cue and hopefully the reputation will exceed my expectation and that reputation will then be passed on to others.

I personally only buy from cuemakers that believe in doing absolutely their best no matter what price range the cue is in.

I think the real sad thing is that there are cuemaker's on this forum that boast of lack of excellence. If a customer asks for it I will line up .... or I will charge extra.....it takes to much time...I just won't do it.

In buisness,cuemaking,sports or anything the difference between the successful and unsuccessful and winner's and loser's are the attention and commitment to the details.

The cuemaker's that have the greatest reputation's and the greatest popularity and command the highest prices on the secondary market are the one's that pay absolute attention to detail and we all know who they are.

I have always chosen and purchased cue's from the cuemaker's that live by the motto...good is never good enough and are alway's striving to become a better more complete cuemaker.

So for all you cuemaker's that truly give a 100% and love those details I thank you for all that you do and thank you for the wonderful workmanship that you have provided for us cue lover's. I salute you!!!!

Scott, this is really a great post.

It is exactly that, the treatment of the details, however complex or simple a cue design may be, that allows a cuemaker to make the transition from just a 'tool builder' to an 'artist'. :smile: