Why Europe gets more slots than the USA

[Jerry Forsyth]

The question was raised yesterday about why the EPBF gets 40 slots for World Championships and the BCA only gets 10 for Americans (14 for North America and 4 go to Canada). The reason is that the BCA covers two countries and the EPBF covers more than twenty (maybe thirty, haven't counted). The population of the countries covered by the EPBF is more than three times the population of America and each country is required representation by the IOC and thus must receive at least one slot. The allocations are actually fair.

 

[JAM]

The question was raised yesterday about why the EPBF gets 40 slots for World Championships and the BCA only gets 10 for Americans (14 for North America and 4 go to Canada). The reason is that the BCA covers two countries and the EPBF covers more than twenty (maybe thirty, haven't counted). The population of the countries covered by the EPBF is more than three times the population of America and each country is required representation by the IOC and thus must receive at least one slot. The allocations are actually fair.

I did not know that! Thanks for that pool factoid! :smile:

Okay, here goes. I know it's a dumb question, but I gotta ask it. :embarrassed2:

I figured the BCA -- Billiards Congress of AMERICA -- represents the United States of AMERICA.

Which is the second country the BCA represents? Why can't they get their own organization?

JAM

 

[Jerry Forsyth]

The second country is....

Jennie,

The BCA is the North American representative for the WPA. It has responsibility for both the USA and Canada. This is done because the IOC requires continental members, not national members.

 

[SCCues]

I wondered about that and now I know. Thanks for the information......

James

 

[turbo]

although im from europe, ill still have to say, if the wpa arranges the slots according to the population of how many countries bca and epbf are covering, theyre not doing right, im sure if they actually considered the actual pool playing population it would be the other way around, 40 for bca, 20 for epbf. i understand epbf has to give give every country under them at least one slot, thats 34 countries, but belarus' no1 player, who will be playing in the championship cannot compete with usa's 15th who is not playing because he couldnt get a slot.
too limited of a field is what im saying.
jmo

 

[Roy Steffensen]

More than 50 countries in Europe. Not all countries have poolorganizations yet, but in the future EPBF can consist of as much as 50 different countries. Today I think it is something like 30.

 

[TheWizard]

I completely disagree with the WPA's slot system and the low number of spots that are available for events like the WPC.

I will continue to disagree with the WPA's slotting system untill it is improved in a way that allows alot more pool players the chance to compete for in World title events, that these events be more open to the larger population of pool players, so that they can all have a fairer chance of competeing in a world title event.

JMHO

Willie

 

[cleary]

I did not know that! Thanks for that pool factoid! :smile:

Okay, here goes. I know it's a dumb question, but I gotta ask it. :embarrassed2:

I figured the BCA -- Billiards Congress of AMERICA -- represents the United States of AMERICA.

Which is the second country the BCA represents? Why can't they get their own organization?

JAM

Sorry to get technical, but a lot of people... including myself for many years, do not realize that although our country is sometimes referred to as "America", "America" is not a country... but rather the lands and regions of the Western hemisphere. We live in "The United States OF America"

With that being said, the BCA could represent all countries in North and South Americas.

 

[JAM]

I completely disagree with the WPA's slot system and the low number of spots that are available for events like the WPC.

I will continue to disagree with the WPA's slotting system untill it is improved in a way that allows alot more pool players the chance to compete for in World title events, that these events be more open to the larger population of pool players, so that they can all have a fairer chance of competeing in a world title event.

JMHO

Willie

If you notice, in recent times, the WPA is paying a lot of attention to the Middle East.

There is one school of thought that it is their duty as a pool organizational entity to bring in new blood, like the Middle Eastern countries.

The WPA knows which side of the bread is buttered. :grin-square:

JAM

 

[JAM]

Sorry to get technical, but a lot of people... including myself for many years, do not realize that although our country is sometimes referred to as "America", "America" is not a country... but rather the lands and regions of the Western hemisphere. We live in "The United States OF America"

With that being said, the BCA could represent all countries in North and South Americas.

I had never looked at it that way, but I think you are right.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If the Billiard Congress of America is going to represent "Canada," then they should represent Central and South Americas too.

Otherwise, they should be called the Billiard Congress of North America.

JAM

 

[TheWizard]

If you notice, in recent times, the WPA is paying a lot of attention to the Middle East.

There is one school of thought that it is their duty as a pool organizational entity to bring in new blood, like the Middle Eastern countries.

The WPA knows which side of the bread is buttered. :grin-square:

JAM

That's true lol

I personally, would rather see the playing field of events like the WPC increased from 128 players to at least 640 players, this may sound like alot of spots, but in reality, there are ALOT of pool players around the world and 128 spots just doesn't cut the mustard, especially when the standard of play nowadays is getting stronger each year, and I think that more players should be given the oppertunity to compete at the highest level

JMHO

Willie

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I will continue to disagree with the WPA's slotting system untill it is improved in a way that allows alot more pool players the chance to compete for in World title events, that these events be more open to the larger population of pool players, so that they can all have a fairer chance of competeing in a world title event. ...

Any pool player in the world has the opportunity right now to go to the world championships, enter an on-site qualifier, and win the whole thing. I think the entry fee at the on-site qualifiers is less than $100. With all of the known top players entering through allotments, it's real hard for any truly legitimate contender to say that he was excluded because he couldn't win a qualifier.

If you are concerned about players in the US, I'd propose a different way to allow participation: national championships. Most countries in the WPA have national championships. To the best of my knowledge, the US has never had a legitimate men's national championship within the current international organization. There are junior championships in the US each year, and I vaguely remember a US women's championship, but never a men's championship. Also, the other parts of the world run confederational championships, such as the European Championships. South America has one that is run by the CPB. North America: nothing.

 

[Bob Jewett]

T ... I personally, would rather see the playing field of events like the WPC increased from 128 players to at least 640 players, ...

I think you're counting wrong. Many of the WPC selections are the result of winning lower-level competitions. You should count the players in those competitions as well.

Also, there is the problem of providing tables, scorekeepers and referees for however many players you have.

In the old days, there were only four to twelve players in the World Championships.

 

[TheWizard]

Any pool player in the world has the opportunity right now to go to the world championships, enter an on-site qualifier, and win the whole thing. I think the entry fee at the on-site qualifiers is less than $100. With all of the known top players entering through allotments, it's real hard for any truly legitimate contender to say that he was excluded because he couldn't win a qualifier.

If you are concerned about players in the US, I'd propose a different way to allow participation: national championships. Most countries in the WPA have national championships. To the best of my knowledge, the US has never had a legitimate men's national championship within the current international organization. There are junior championships in the US each year, and I vaguely remember a US women's championship, but never a men's championship. Also, the other parts of the world run confederational championships, such as the European Championships. South America has one that is run by the CPB. North America: nothing.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Bob, after all, a tournament like the US Open would be a great event for selecting US and Canadian players, to earn a slot in the WPC

As reguards the number of players being too high for the WPC, what about the BCA Nationals???... if the BCA can get the use of a casino for a week and have 200 or so tables, then there's no reason why the WPC couldn't be set up to have a larger venue with around 32 tables, with the number of tables being reduced as the tournament goes along.

It's just something that I have been wondering for a little while now

Willie

 

[supergreenman]

I did not know that! Thanks for that pool factoid! :smile:

Okay, here goes. I know it's a dumb question, but I gotta ask it. :embarrassed2:

I figured the BCA -- Billiards Congress of AMERICA -- represents the United States of AMERICA.

Which is the second country the BCA represents? Why can't they get their own organization?

JAM

We do have our own organization, the Canadian Billiard and Snooker Assn.(CBSA).
http://www.cbsa.ca/

They are responsible for picking Canadas representitives. They then forward the names to the BCA who act as an intermediary.

 

[supergreenman]

World org chart

I thought this would be of interest.

 

[mjantti]

I think you're counting wrong. Many of the WPC selections are the result of winning lower-level competitions. You should count the players in those competitions as well.

Also, there is the problem of providing tables, scorekeepers and referees for however many players you have.

In the old days, there were only four to twelve players in the World Championships.

This year's European Championships will also have juniors and seniors divisions and the total number of players will be around 500 and there is going to be more than 50 tables which makes it a huuuuge event lasting for almost 2 weeks. I'm going to be a referee there and I can report to you how the arrangements go through. Personally, I think it's going to be a chaos...

 

[Roy Steffensen]

This year's European Championships will also have juniors and seniors divisions and the total number of players will be around 500 and there is going to be more than 50 tables which makes it a huuuuge event lasting for almost 2 weeks. I'm going to be a referee there and I can report to you how the arrangements go through. Personally, I think it's going to be a chaos...

Please make sure you are all seated, because I am about to give you some real GREAT news about the European Championships:

Absolutely NO PRICE MONEY.

Yes, it's true. 500 European players will play for about 12 days, just for honour! (Top 8 in Men 9-ball, Men 8-ball will get spots in WC. Winner of Senior divisions will get spots in Men 9-ball, Men 8-ball, but that's it)

All the winners get is a wet, sweaty handshake from the President of EPBF.

I don't get it, but it seems to be popular

Oh, each country has to pay almost 200 $ per player per discipline they will compete in. Norway will send a total of 21 players (Junior, pupil, men, women, senior, wheelchair). Each of them will compete in minimum 2 diciplines each, of total 4. (8-ball, 9-ball, 14-1 and teams). That's about 5 000 $ just in entryfees only for a small poolnation like Norway...

And this tournament will be played at the same dates as MILLION DOLLAR 9-BALL... Still Hohmann, Feijen, Souquet, Ortmann etc will play the European Championships

 

[bandido]

Please make sure you are all seated, because I am about to give you some real GREAT news about the European Championships:

Absolutely NO PRICE MONEY.

Yes, it's true. 500 European players will play for about 12 days, just for honour! (Top 8 in Men 9-ball, Men 8-ball will get spots in WC. Winner of Senior divisions will get spots in Men 9-ball, Men 8-ball, but that's it)

All the winners get is a wet, sweaty handshake from the President of EPBF.

I don't get it, but it seems to be popular

Oh, each country has to pay almost 200 $ per player per discipline they will compete in. Norway will send a total of 21 players (Junior, pupil, men, women, senior, wheelchair). Each of them will compete in minimum 2 diciplines each, of total 4. (8-ball, 9-ball, 14-1 and teams). That's about 5 000 $ just in entryfees only for a small poolnation like Norway...

And this tournament will be played at the same dates as MILLION DOLLAR 9-BALL... Still Hohmann, Feijen, Souquet, Ortmann etc will play the European Championships

500 players? WOW! 500players times $200 times 4 disciplines = US$400,000.00! Who's pocketing all these cash?! The EPBF or the IBP? Do they also televise this European Championship with advertisers? Entry fee at the gates? Merchandising?

 

[Roy Steffensen]

EPBF is hosting the tournament, and I guess IBP is running it for them.

Perhaps I miscalculated the entryfee, maybe it is more around 160 $ per player per dicipline. (Think it is about 120 Euro).

Just in the mens divisions (8-ball, 9-ball and 14-1) 128 players will compete in each dicipline. That means 60 000 $ in entryfee just in the mens tournaments...

The tournament attracts sponsors too, and the tables are provided by Olympic I think, so no costs for EPBF regarding the tables.