NYC cue dude
Banned
But something else to consider- anyone know why Danny Dilberto insists that Willie never ran the 526?
Why has no one beat Mosconi's high run?
- Thread starter nineballsafety8
- Start date
Certainly a great pool trivia question: Who was Mosconi's opponent the night he ran 526? Extra points for his opponent's nickname and how many points they were playing to that night.
Lou Figueroa
OK, first off, that "book" was Mosconi's official biography, written with Stanley Cohen, who had access to Mosconi and his personal recollections over the course six hundred pages of transcripts from recorded interviews, and a treasure trove of clippings, memorabilia, and interviews with many others, to include Charlie Ursitti.
Second, though Willie is generally known to have died of a heart attack, what is not widely known is that later in life he also suffered from Alzheimers. So it is possible, if not likely, that what he recalled in his later years was that he was tired and perhaps not that he missed.
Third, there were other accounts from that night that mention he missed. One of them is in "The Hustler & The Champ" R.A. Dyer's wonderful book on the rivalry between Mosconi and Fats. In that book there is a great passage filled with tons of details from that night in Springfield (who knew Mosconi was an adept pinball player?!). Here is an excerpt:
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“During the early morning hours of March 20, 1954, Mosconi completed a run of 526 balls. Again, that’s 5-2-6. It represented at least thirty-four racks of straight pool and maybe more depending on how one does the counting. It is a record that has remained standing for more than five decades, and, in fact, may never be surpassed. It is pool’s most cherished record and in all ways as startling as DiMaggio’s fifty-six game hitting streak, or the hundred-point game by Wilt Chamberlain.
‘At 12:50 a.m., he missed the 527th shot — a six-ball in the corner. It tottered at the pocket but would not fall, said Hatfield.’ (Dick Hatfield was a long-term regular of Springfield’s East High Billiards.) At 1:10 a.m., the Springfield News and Sun was called to report the story... Lefty made a sketch of the missed shot, the fifth of the final rack. It jawed out of the corner. That's when Mosconi looked up, smiled apologetically, and said he was getting tired anyway."
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Lou Figueroa
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Maybe he was suffering from his Alzheimer's when he was writing his memoirs...
...All kidding aside, I personally don't care either way. 526 is the record and I don't think it'll be broken anytime soon...
...All kidding aside, I personally don't care either way. 526 is the record and I don't think it'll be broken anytime soon... This story doesn't jibe with the autobiography. See post #173. The autobiography says Bruney made 3 balls off the break and Willie took it from there. That would mean he made 11 balls in the first rack, then 36 full racks of 14, and then 11 balls in the final rack (assuming he never pocketed the 15th ball of a rack along with the 14th).
So that's quite a difference -- 11 balls in the final rack versus 4 from the Dyer/Hatfield account.
So I'd say either (1) the autobiography is wrong as to when the run started, or (2) the Dyer book (Hatfield account) is wrong as to the situation when it ended, or (3) Willie's run was something different from 526 (could be more or less), or (4) some combination of these.
I'm pretty sure DD isn't the most impartial individual when the name Willie Mosconi comes up.
Maybe not, but I'm also curious about why he would say that.
No doubt some small thing is amiss.
However, that night there was a referee, Art Mills, described as an astute gambler; another individual, Clarence Newman, to rack the balls; Mosconi's opponent, Art Bruney, a more than fair pool player; and Mosconi himself who, I imagine, knew how to count pool balls. So, it's a relative certainty that, as proscribed by the traditions of the game in that era (see "The Hustler"), the referee would have been calling out the running ball count at the end of each rack. (Then there are the near three dozen witness signatures on the affidavit.)
Ergo, I think it's fair to say that while someone's recollection might be slightly off, option (3) and the outcome of 526, is not.
Lou Figueroa
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Hey, anytime a guy can work "ergo" into his argument, he's got my vote! :grin:
Probably so.
On the affidavit, it looks like an Earl Newmann signed as ref.
Edit -- I see the Dyer book also says Bruney ran just 3 in the first rack, although the Dyer book says it was after a few "ducking and stalling" innings rather than right off the break (as in Willie's book).
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We could argue all night about whether it will ever be beaten, but i really wonder how many attempts are being made. Exhibitions are a thing of the past, (alas) and tournaments are unlikely to allow a player to keep running balls even if the players were inclined to, which does not seem to be the case. Perhaps the reason it has not been surpassed is simply that no one is really trying.
The long jump used to be the record no one thought would ever be broken. But more attempts always means that the bell curve gets bigger, and the end point moves further out. People don't even need to be getting better.
Anyone claiming that the 'easy' table is responsible want to give a number for how much easier it is?
Thank You Kindly.
The long jump used to be the record no one thought would ever be broken. But more attempts always means that the bell curve gets bigger, and the end point moves further out. People don't even need to be getting better.
Anyone claiming that the 'easy' table is responsible want to give a number for how much easier it is?
Thank You Kindly.
I think we do.
Yes. In his day he was unquestionably the best of the best.
Yes, a 4x8 with 5"+ pockets was incredibly easy for a champion of his caliber.
Probably the biggest reason.
Lack of motivation. There is no major financial upside to doing this feat. Mosconi's run wouldn't even be a record if someone hadn't drawn up an affidavit. It was an incidental event as Mosconi would typically run 125 and stop in exhibition but this time was urged on by the room owner and the crowd. Since the room owner was a friend Mosconi continued and the rest is history.
So today setting up a situation where there would be sufficient witnesses and a record of the run is actually difficult to do without sufficient motivation to do so.
This is why I say if there were a $10,000 prize then the record would be broken within six months. Fame alone isn't enough as just breaking the record won't for the sake of doing so won't pay the rent.
You all know how great Earl was on his prime.. He told on interview that he tried to beat Mosconi´s record for some time and he got 409 or 408.. Back in 80´s tables weren´t too tight.. That tell me something. If Earl dedicated something like beating Willies record and can´t beat it.. Don´t make up excuses.
You all know how great Earl was on his prime.. He told on interview that he tried to beat Mosconi´s record for some time and he got 409 or 408.. Back in 80´s tables weren´t too tight.. That tell me something. If Earl dedicated something like beating Willies record and can´t beat it.. Don´t make up excuses.
Back in the 80's tables weren't tight? They were at least 4.5" in most pool rooms on 9ft tables as I recall.
Did Earl clarify what he tried it on? Was it a 4x8 with 5.25" pockets.
Beat it
Go back and research the table make Brunswick?? and size,which was a 4x8 and size pockets and cloth used at that time,as well as balls used,chalk and rubber on rails ,conditions and weather at the time,check with any news paper articles anyone there,still living or desendents of the people in attendance and then find a table like it,which in todays internet and table collecters or contact blatt billiards or its company in NYC and go for the record. Doesen't sound easy but can will be done by the right people.I'd love to see it done before I die but at 68 and my health I might not get a chance to see it. A real pool player and champion,15 time world champion and legend Willie Mosconi . Have played him twice in my life on a 4x8 brunswick table at the age of 19 ,and saw for real 2 100 ball runs and all the shoots in the movie the hustler, a true champion and showman which he did in a suit and tie, which is hardly seen today. Rich aka the skunk.
Go back and research the table make Brunswick?? and size,which was a 4x8 and size pockets and cloth used at that time,as well as balls used,chalk and rubber on rails ,conditions and weather at the time,check with any news paper articles anyone there,still living or desendents of the people in attendance and then find a table like it,which in todays internet and table collecters or contact blatt billiards or its company in NYC and go for the record. Doesen't sound easy but can will be done by the right people.I'd love to see it done before I die but at 68 and my health I might not get a chance to see it. A real pool player and champion,15 time world champion and legend Willie Mosconi . Have played him twice in my life on a 4x8 brunswick table at the age of 19 ,and saw for real 2 100 ball runs and all the shoots in the movie the hustler, a true champion and showman which he did in a suit and tie, which is hardly seen today. Rich aka the skunk.
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