Why has no one beat Mosconi's high run?

I haven't read every post so if this was mentioned sorry: .. I think the most interesting part of Mosconi's record run was not ended because he missed a ball... He QUIT because he was tired.. The run could have been a lot higher... I believe everyone else's ended on a miss... That says a lot to me.


Mosconi missed.

From his biography, "Willie's Game:" "On March 19, in Springfield, Ohio, I ran 526 balls, a record that still stands. I was playing an amateur by the name of Earl Bruney in the East High Billiard Club. He made three balls off the break, then I ran two hundred and just kept going. The run took two hours and ten minutes. I finally missed a difficult cut shot, but by that time I was weary; it was almost a relief to have it come to an end."

Lou Figueroa
 
I heard versions where once or twice a well-pocketed ball came back out of the pocket due to bad pocket back design, and that he continued the run anyway.


That would be a pretty scurrilous charge, given the fact that there is a signed affidavit at the National Museum of American History, signed by Mosconi's opponent that night, the referee, the room owner, a notary public, and I believe 33 others, to the effect that they personally witnessed a legit run of 526.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you cannot provide a reference for that one ;-)

Lou Figueroa
 

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That would be a pretty scurrilous charge, given the fact that there is a signed affidavit at the National Museum of American History, signed by Mosconi's opponent that night, the referee, the room owner, a notary public, and I believe 33 others, to the effect that they personally witnessed a legit run of 526.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you cannot provide a reference for that one ;-)

Lou Figueroa

From reading the docs (neat, by the way), the notary did not sign as a witness. Rather, the person who signed the affidavit swears to the truth of the contents, and the notary signs that to attest to the fact that the affiant actually swore that the contents were true and signed it.

Gideon
 
From reading the docs (neat, by the way), the notary did not sign as a witness. Rather, the person who signed the affidavit swears to the truth of the contents, and the notary signs that to attest to the fact that the affiant actually swore that the contents were true and signed it.

Gideon


I stand, er, sit corrected...

...you do know it's considered poaching for Canucks to go picking nits down here, don't you?

Lou Figueroa
 
I stand, er, sit corrected...

...you do know it's considered poaching for Canucks to go picking nits down here, don't you?

Lou Figueroa

The nits are in cyberspace, bouncing around international jurisdictions through the world wide web. I have as much right to pick them as my American friends.

Gideon
 
The nits are in cyberspace, bouncing around international jurisdictions through the world wide web. I have as much right to pick them as my American friends.

Gideon


I believe The Geneva Conventions exclude picking nits on foreign soil without prior consent of a least one citizen of the afflicted country on which they originated.

Lou Figueroa
there
 
Not enough players play straight pool on the daily like back then and no one plays on 8 foot tables with big pockets either. :smile:
 
I spoke with Willie's wife Flo in Atlantic City at an exhibition between Loree Jon and Jeanette Lee over 10 years ago and met his son too as my girlfriend at the time and I were seated right next to them. I didn't want to bother her too much so thought of my question and it was what happened during his 526 ball run for it to end, she said he just got tired. She was a sweet lady, even gave me a local NJ magazine from where they lived with an article on Willie in it. His son was also there but not very personable though.
 
That would be a pretty scurrilous charge, given the fact that there is a signed affidavit at the National Museum of American History, signed by Mosconi's opponent that night, the referee, the room owner, a notary public, and I believe 33 others, to the effect that they personally witnessed a legit run of 526.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you cannot provide a reference for that one ;-)

Lou Figueroa

Fast Larry said so. It's gotta be true. ;)
 
Wm

526
That's 35 racks
That's 35 key balls
That's 35 break shots
That's no scratches, no cue ball stuck/frozen to an object ball
No miscues,
Breaks down to about 9 balls a minute including the racking
It took him what 2hrs 10/20 Minutes I could go on.
------
He was also running 100s every night while on tour -
Different equipment, nightly etc. - the guy was a ball pocketing machine.
There is a nice little video on YouTube
(I got a secret) game show with willie - he is asked to demonstrate some of his skills
He sets up a rack with the classic break - after he shoots he looks at the table for a moment and it seems he has the entire layout in his mind. Then proceeds to clear the table in no time.
It's a shame we don't have video of him in his prime.
IMO - the best ever.
McP
 
Wm

526
That's 35 racks
That's 35 key balls
That's 35 break shots
That's no scratches, no cue ball stuck/frozen to an object ball
No miscues,
Breaks down to about 9 balls a minute including the racking
It took him what 2hrs 10/20 Minutes I could go on.
------
He was also running 100s every night while on tour -
Different equipment, nightly etc. - the guy was a ball pocketing machine.
There is a nice little video on YouTube
(I got a secret) game show with willie - he is asked to demonstrate some of his skills
He sets up a rack with the classic break - after he shoots he looks at the table for a moment and it seems he has the entire layout in his mind. Then proceeds to clear the table in no time.
It's a shame we don't have video of him in his prime.
IMO - the best ever.
McP
 
526
That's 35 racks
That's 35 key balls
That's 35 break shots
That's no scratches, no cue ball stuck/frozen to an object ball
No miscues,
Breaks down to about 9 balls a minute including the racking
It took him what 2hrs 10/20 Minutes I could go on. ...

The autobiography says the opponent ran 3 balls off the break, and then Willie ran the 526. That means Willie cleared 11 balls in the first rack, and then 36 full racks of 14, and then 11 in the final rack -- 11 + (36x14) + 11 = 526. That means he made 37 successful break shots in a row (not to mention all the secondary break shots). Amazing.

[Edit -- This assumes he never pocketed the 15th ball of a rack along with the 14th. Doing so would have led to the need for a low-probability break shot on the full rack to keep the run going, and it would have reduced the number of balls he made in the final rack.]

[Edit2 -- And 2 hrs. 10 minutes means about 4 balls per minute.]
 
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Just imagine this......screw the table size....the pocket size......etc.

Willie ran 37 or maybe 38 racks.........imagine 37 break shots successfully executed.

Just go rack the balls at a table sometime when you by yourself........14 balls........and start counting and do it 37 times......OMG.........a ball every 20 seconds......Willie was gifted beyond belief.

His accomplishments are legendary because Willie Mosconi still remains the greatest legend in pocket billiards history.

Matt B.
 
From his biography, I ran 526 balls, a record that still stands. I was playing an amateur by the name of Earl Bruney

What ever happened to old "Earl Bruney", ? LOL


isn't he famous for losing to Mosconi by only 523 points, in one inning! :grin-square::grin-square:
 
Considering racking the balls took at least approx. 6 min (in a fast pace of 10 sec/rack), Mosconi ran approx. 4.25 balls/min or 1 ball/14sec...
 
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Mosconi missed.

From his biography, "Willie's Game:" "On March 19, in Springfield, Ohio, I ran 526 balls, a record that still stands. I was playing an amateur by the name of Earl Bruney in the East High Billiard Club. He made three balls off the break, then I ran two hundred and just kept going. The run took two hours and ten minutes. I finally missed a difficult cut shot, but by that time I was weary; it was almost a relief to have it come to an end."

Lou Figueroa

That may be in a book but this link it comes out of his mouth that he did not miss and quit because he was tired... Go to mark 10:10 of the video...

https://youtu.be/ItPxJuAoimE


Which one is true... Maybe only Willie knows..
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you cannot provide a reference for that one ;-)

Just so you don't think I'm the scurrilous one, I found the reference you asked for, and it was who I thought it was. Consider the source, but I didn't make it up (although I posted it here with my tongue placed firmly in my cheek):


http://www.poolchat.net/forums/index.php?/topic/8218-willie-mosconis-high-run-of-526/

FL say:

Yes, I was not there, but I heard that from two reliable sources, at least once, maybe twice, a ball went in the pocket and came back out. 1st one around 200, 2nd one around 300, did it happen, I dunno? Would they lie just to discredit his run? I don't think so either. Something had to have happened there. They just said, bad pocket, shoved it back in and kept going. That seems fair to me, if the ball went in, but technically, the run ended right then, but this was a show, an exhibition, and not a tournament, so the rules were ignored. So if he ran 250, or 300 and they tossed a couple balls back in, so what, who cared if the run ended that way. Everybody got a nice show and saw a great high run. He rarely ran over 200, it was very rare to run 300; nobody dreamed he would make 500? And when he did, they were trapped into it?

The way it worked back then, Brunswick was huge, and it ruled and dominated the game, it wrote the rule book and owned the industry. Mosconi was their employee, on their payroll, he did, what they said, went where they sent him, did the shows for them. So they only wanted their stars, to hold the big records, which sold their tables? When Willie came in, the local dealer would set up a brand new Brunswick table, he was not allowed to play on anything else, new cloth and he only used his own set of Centennials.
The people signing the affidavit could have been all the Brunswick people there, the locals from the office, and all the dealer people, and their pals. Who knows? If Brunswick gave him the record, that was it, end of story, and the rest of you could stick it, God has spoken.

I guess my point is that there are other legitimate runs that are pretty much accepted as truth without having been officially documented with a notarized affidavit. Just because nobody watched Eufemia's incredible run in it's entirely doesn't mean it never happened.

Same with Cranfield's practice run. Was he lying? Did he touch a ball on accident at some point and not count it in his head because it was only a practice run? Did he use a piece of chalk on the rail on a few banks to help extend his run? Lay his stick on the table to figure out a difficult CB path? Did he go and grab a protractor to calculate a seemingly impossible five-rail kick and never tell us? We'll never know, except that Babe said he did it, and to discount it is paramount to saying he lied.

There are plenty of other runs that are equally noteworthy. Is Engert's 492 on a 9 footer to be yawned at because it fell a few racks short of besting Mosconi's? Do the great 430ish runs of Nagy, West, and Martin automatically put them into a second tier of players below Willie?

IMHO anytime anybody puts up a number high in the 300's or into the 400's they had to have a bit of help from the pool gods. There are just so many breaks and secondary breaks you can encounter before the laws of chaos take over and you get stuck in an impossible situation and your run ends on a bad roll. An undetected speck of chalk between two frozen balls can make you miss a very well calculated shot into the stack. A bit of dirt from the fingers on a rail might send a perfectly executed CB short of its intended mark.

Pool will always have a large element of randomness built into it. When all the stars are aligned you may have a chance at any number if you skill is great enough, but everybody misses eventually... even if it wasn't their fault. The gods were certainly smiling on Willie that day, they may smile even brighter on some other player in the future. But of course, that player has to actually play the game. Few do today.
 
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