Why has woofing become SO important?

[JAM]

Why is no one demanding the WPBA enforce a dress code that all the Pro women wear sexy outfits and lots of make-up on TV, which would surely also increase the audience? Because it is offensive and discrimatory.

Aunty Dan, I respect your OPINION. I just happen to DISAGREE with it, very strongly I might add.

It seems the majority of folks on this thread have different OPINIONS, which is great fuel for a friendly colloquy about the pros and cons of "woofing."

Relating to the ladies' TV events, I was told by Rachel Abblink that it is a requirement for any of the ladies who make it to the finals on TV to have their make-up professionaly applied beforehand, which I found strange. As far as the "sexy outfits," as you put it, this is where I agree with you. I don't believe SEX and POOL belong on the same platform. There are ways to dress attractively without revealing the family jewels, and I think to date, all of the ladies I've seen on TV do dress very nicely and represent the sport well.

Forcing all male Pro players to also be gamblers and clowns in order to widen the audience for Pool is no better in my opinion.

When this thread was initiated about "woofing," Aunty Dan, I believe the original intent related to gambling and games of stake, not a match on TV.

HOWEVER, I do believe that TALKING when the players are on NATIONAL TV would lure in a new audience. To date, NOBODY knows who ANYBODY is on TV. There is no NAME-BRAND RECOGNITION. I don't believe an opponent should "shark" in a competitive venue. However, when it is HIS/HER turn at the table or BETWEEN SHOTS, I see NOTHING WRONG with a little levity. This is what the sport is lacking. It is dry, boring, and the non-pool-playing public just isn't interested to date in this sport.

Most of America, Aunty Dan, will not enjoy their viewing experience watching a bunch of robotic pool players looking like mimes before a camera. It is ridiculous to think ANYBODY, i.e., a NEWER AUDIENCE, would be entertained with the current climate. Matter of fact, the history of pool on TV in America speaks for itself. It's still on the back burner; a filler, if you will.

I also feel such a format is deeply divisive, as only the players who are able to deal with the pressures and temptations of gambling, verbally colorful enough or physically attractive enough to entertain a Fox network TV audience and also able to play well whilst their opponent and the studio audience is free to shark them would be successful. This would eliminate a lot of great players who are unable or simply unwilling to play in such an environment.

Well, Aunty Dan, there are quite a few folks, I'd venture to guess an overwhelming majority, who don't have the same OPINION as you. Charlie Williams has been quoted on this forum as saying he thinks more audience involvement would enhance the sport, i.e., cheering, clapping, laughter. Charlie thinks the spectators want to have a good time as opposed to sitting in a church setting with complete silence. Can you imagine going to a baseball game where there is complete and unadulterated silence in the stadium? Ain't going to happen. Paying spectators want to ENJOY their viewing experience, whether there in person or on TV.

You, Aunty Dan, seem to intertwine the two words "sharking" and "woofing," and you also place GAMBLING and COMPETING (in a professional environment) on the same platform. Two different animals.

I associate "woofing" with gambling. If American pool on TV does not CHANGE, it will continue on its merry way to NOWHERE, exactly as it sits now. No monies from non-pool-related sponsors. Why? Because NOBODY is enjoying watching it on TV, to include me, and I understand the game. I've switched the channels on more than one occasion when pool was on my TV set because it was BORING.

The whole point about adding some ENTERTAINMENT to the sport on TV is so the sport will advance, attract a new audience, non-pool-related sponsors, which is a win-win for all. If you think complete silence on TV between players is going to get us there, it ain't.

I hope the Skins broadcast is successful. I also hope that it captures the excitement and thrill experienced by all who were there. Until there is a CHANGE, the only folks who will be satisfied with pool on TV will be a very, very, very, very, very, very, very small minority in the mix.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

JAM

 

[Tommy-D]

Somehow I knew this would happen......

> Several people made valid points here,but I need to elaborate on something. When I used the word "jew",I did not capitalize it,in an effort to make it a "generic" term,as opposed to making it a slur of any type,this was simply a bad choice of term,and I apologize for it to anyone that didn't like it. To imply that I did it to intentionally denegrate a race,promote racial unrest or anything of the type is absolutely absurd,enough said. John Henderson said that I have been known to woof,and he is correct,I've seen it enough to do it unconsciously on occasion. Rest assured when I do,I fully intend to play. Refresh my memory,where do we know each other from? Tommy D.

 

[JAM]

Remember the Holocaust

Several people made valid points here, but I need to elaborate on something. When I used the word "Jew," I did not capitalize it, in an effort to make it a "generic" term, as opposed to making it a slur of any type. This was simply a bad choice of term,and I apologize for it to anyone that didn't like it....

Tommy-D, I believe you meant no harm when you used this term. I am not Jewish, but I did find it very offensive.

My best friend's father is a Holocaust survivor. He grew up in a small farm in Poland, and the Nazis came to his home and separated his mother, father, sisters, and brothers in various camps. Every single one of them was murdered except my friend's dad, and this poor old man today has no childhood memories of playing with friends, going to school, enjoying happy memories that most of us here in the States take for granted. To this day, an elderly man in his seventies, he continues to be haunted by memories of growing up in a ghetto camp, making himself useful to the Nazis by being their slave, so that he could enjoy God's precious gift to all people, a life.

I provided services as an independent contractor to the Holocaust Museum at its inception. Located in Washington, D.C., this museum is the best exhibit I have ever seen. The Holocaust was a horror designed by one man, but supported by a nation, while the world looked the other way, until it was TOO DAMN LATE: Remember the Holocaust

Peace on earth and goodwill to ALL MEN!

JAM

 

[drivermaker]

Who wants to play some 9 ball? Get your pansy asses up here and bet sumpin! Call me whatever ya want, just don't put your hands on me and we'll get along just fine.

From what I understand, it's too cold where you live. Isn't Kingman in the center of the twilight zone or the outer limits? Hell, we might never come back from there. Merrry Xmas John...

 

[cardiac kid]

JAM,

Please talk to Mike about writing a weekly column for AZ Billiards. You choose the subject. I'll read it!

Some people say that politically correct jargon is crap. I was offended by Tommy's comment but couldn't find the right words to share my thoughts. Biting my tongue has taken its toll. I'm not sure whether being part of an "invisible" minority is more or less difficult than a "visible" one. There is enough hate to go around already.

 

[Rude Dog]

From what I understand, it's too cold where you live. Isn't Kingman in the center of the twilight zone or the outer limits? Hell, we might never come back from there. Merrry Xmas John...

I had a feeling I'd get something back from you DM Merry Christmas to you too, peace.

 

[OldHasBeen]

bruin70 - I Wish You...........

bruin70 - you said - "if it's about hustling....pool hustlers are lazy and not willing to try and "earn" their keep. gambling for them is making a payday without working".

Man I wish you could have been with me back in the 70's & 80's.
I WAS ANYTHING BUT LAZY!
What I thought was lazy was sitting in a poolroom day after day with a backer who took 50% for doing nothing but put up cash that if you got off your ass and hit the road, you wouldn't need him.
THE PLAYING OF POOL AND THE HUSTLEING OF POOL ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ENTETIES.
The playing part must come first, but for most, that is where it stops.
Back in my days, if you wanted earn a decent living for yourself (not recommended for supporting more than one), and feel productive, you had to make a decision. Get a job and become a "Home Grown Tomato" OR Go "On The Road" and find out what you are made of.
Many "Hit The Road" but few survived. WHY? - Because it takes a LOT of skills, effort, determination & drive.
Drive, as in over 75,000 a year on a new Cadillac or Lincoln.
Drive, as in undefeatable ambition.


TY & GL

 

[sjm]

When I used the word "jew",I did not capitalize it,in an effort to make it a "generic" term,as opposed to making it a slur of any type,this was simply a bad choice of term,and I apologize for it to anyone that didn't like it.

Tommy, thanks for being classy. Like you, I sometimes say or write things without fully understanding how they will be received. And just like you, I regret it and I apologize when I learn someone is offended.

Have a great holiday, Tommy.

 

[jrhendy]

WOOFING & THIN SKINNED POOL PLAYERS

There is a lot more to say about the art of woofing, and there has been plenty said about it already, but agitating and insulting your would be opponent into taking a little the worst of it is what woofing is all about. If you were shocked & offended by his post you wouldn't have lasted a day in the pool rooms I grew up in. It was all poolroom BS and the purpose was to get you to play. Sure there were times it went overboard and hurt feelings and even fights, but you developed a thick skin and needed it if you wanted to be a pool scuff. Any weakness you had in your character or physical appearance was fair game if you were a woofer yourself. The guys that kept their mouths shut usually didn't get woofed at. Look at some the nicknames we gave poolplayers - Fat ***, Toupee***, Big Nose*** and so on. We love the characters in pool, warts and all. Pool hasn't been able to get over the hump by trying to clean it up for TV. Poker comes along and rockets in popularity, and a big reason is the woofing, whining and the characters involved. There is plenty of that in pool if you let the public see it. The big money ring games that are growing in popularity at the tournaments might be the thing thats gets the non playing public wanting to see more pool. But it wouldn't work without a little woofing. John Henderson

 

[Rod]

Woofing (if practiced correctly) is much like sexual foreplay. It can become an enjoyable and very effective art if done properly.
TIMEING IS EVERYTHING!
TY & GL

I like that! I have problems with listening to that crap. If they step up to bat ok, but not from a bunch of nits that aren't going to play no matter the game. Ya sure we all haggle a little but I ain't listening to a 4 act play no matter who the charachters. Some of these guys talk just to hear there marbles rattle.

Rod

 

[Rickw]

Jam,

The point I'm trying to make is that pool needs to find its way. Is it to be the path similar to what golf took or should it follow poker's lead? They're both rich endeavors for different reasons. Poker has the casinos behind it so it has an inherent sponsor. Golf shed all of the woofing for the TV audience and yet they have grown to be one of the richest sports. Why did they do that if woofing is so much fun? As I stated before, woofing can go seriously wrong if done by or to the wrong person. Poker hypes the different characters in the game and that certainly is working for them right now. Golf has certainly been around longer and can be viewed on almost any one of the network channels. Poker has not made it to the networks yet and only time will tell if they ever will. Pool has to pick a path and start heading in a particular direction. I think the article in BD about how bowling is turning it around is something pool needs to look at seriously.

The fact that golf is usually played in some of the most exotic resorts around the world, the lap of luxury, sure does help a tad bit.

For a mere half-a-million dollars or more, a golf enthusiast can join Exclusive Resorts [website]. When you check out these playing venues, you can just imagine the friendly spectators, prospective sponsors, and golf enthusiasts this game of golf attracts. Quite different than the audience you see at most pool tournaments.

Poker is having a fantastic run currently on national TV. How long it will last is anybody's guess, but if the featured six poker players battled it out for several hours, never muttering a word, I don't think it would be make for an enjoyable TV viewing experience.

JAM

 

[JAM]

Jam, the point I'm trying to make is that pool needs to find its way. Is it to be the path similar to what golf took or should it follow poker's lead?...As I stated before, woofing can go seriously wrong if done by or to the wrong person. Poker hypes the different characters in the game and that certainly is working for them right now...Pool has to pick a path and start heading in a particular direction....

I understand your reasoning, RickW. Looking at it from the side of pool cleaning up its act, I can see a few dangling, maybe distinctive, oddities about the verbal aspect, causing concern in the broadcast arena. I'm always amazed at how the ESPN commentators--Hopkins, Laurence(s), et al.--and the Accu-Stats' boys--Incardone, Wych, et al.--are able to describe the action in progress in the "Queen's English," so to speak, without using the verbiage I grew up with.

Knowledge of the game AND the players, however, is key (IMO), along with the ability to communicate effectively to a WIDE array of viewers. Some folks don't understand it a lick, and others think it's too descript.

I think the human interest stories of the players would pique the curiosity and maybe attract a new audience, elevating pool's popularity in the States. As an example, when the Yankees' coach was having his bout with cancer, I stayed tuned to the baseball series, attracted to the commentary of the broadcast, wanting to know more. And I definitely started to watch ice-skating on TV during the Harding-Kerrigan knee-capping incident, and still do today. Pool players have no name-brand recognition, and I think the strategy of bringing in the players' personalities is worthy of pursuing.

For instance, when Bustamante was competing in Europe, he had a family health tragedy back home, and if his personality (family man) was revealed on TV, folks would have gotten to know Bustamante the person, as well as the pool player. He's actually quite a remarkable guy! When Earl Strickland was competing at the Trump Marina 10-Ball Challenge in Atlantic City and suffered a horrible kidney ailment the night before, he still showed up for his match. Who wouldn't pull for the guy who's playing his heart out while in excrutiating pain?! Then there's that special calmness of Hawaiian Rodney Morris, on top of his game playing in the Skins tourney as his beautiful wife with child cheers for him in the stands, a man who has succeeded traveling the hard road, and look at him go now. Everybody loves to pull for a winner! Or how about Julie Kelly sacrificing her passion in Ireland to pursue her pool dreams here in the States? When I think of Julie, I think of her wonderful Irish brogue and bubbly personality. She's hitting the mark lately, too!

My point is that with name-brand recognition, a personality, if you will, people will tune in and stay tuned in because of their thirst to learn more. Through constant innovation of creating name-brand recognition, pool will elevate because the viewing audience will demand it. And guess what? Those non-pool-related sponsors will come out of the woodwork, wanting to jump on the band wagon.

If pool players on TV seem emotionless, like robotic mimes just going through the motions, without any of their character being revealed, the current popularity on national broadcast will continue to remain in the bottom of the barrel. If that awful gambling persona happens to rear its ugly head, as evidenced by the recent poker success, I look at it as just a colorful complement. Woof-woof!

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[vagabond]

Is it a fore play? just wondering.
Vagabond

 

[Tommy-D]

Once again....my mistake.

> Apparently this topic has also caused problems on the CCB,and I am including a complete cut-and-paste from my response to the problems I have caused,posted verbatim on the CCB.


> I made a an error here,and I'm not avoiding the subject the slightest bit. It was pretty insensitive of me to have used a word like that,and what makes it worse is that I did it without giving it much thought. Some took this as an overall statement of my views on racial matters,some overlooked it and discussed the topic I intended to discuss here,and others corrected me,but I thank all of you for your input. I am as respectful of other peoples cultures as I can be,and meant no intentional malice in my use of this word at all,and I openly ask for forgiveness in this matter. On the other hand,to suggest I used the word that I did to intentionally slur a group or individual is absurd. This was my own lack of forethought,not hatred or ignorance towards another race or religion, On the other hand,it WAS ignorant of me to use this word. I scratched,you have ball in hand. Tommy D.


> I truly hope this will clear the air of any animosity,perceived or real,for anyone that participated here. I am not about to start a pointless,illogically childish FL-type scenario over this,and will not allow myself to be dragged into one either. My hand is out asking for a handshake,and offering an apology,pure and simple. Tommy D.

 

[Rude Dog]

> Apparently this topic has also caused problems on the CCB,and I am including a complete cut-and-paste from my response to the problems I have caused,posted verbatim on the CCB.


> I made a an error here,and I'm not avoiding the subject the slightest bit. It was pretty insensitive of me to have used a word like that,and what makes it worse is that I did it without giving it much thought. Some took this as an overall statement of my views on racial matters,some overlooked it and discussed the topic I intended to discuss here,and others corrected me,but I thank all of you for your input. I am as respectful of other peoples cultures as I can be,and meant no intentional malice in my use of this word at all,and I openly ask for forgiveness in this matter. On the other hand,to suggest I used the word that I did to intentionally slur a group or individual is absurd. This was my own lack of forethought,not hatred or ignorance towards another race or religion, On the other hand,it WAS ignorant of me to use this word. I scratched,you have ball in hand. Tommy D.


> I truly hope this will clear the air of any animosity,perceived or real,for anyone that participated here. I am not about to start a pointless,illogically childish FL-type scenario over this,and will not allow myself to be dragged into one either. My hand is out asking for a handshake,and offering an apology,pure and simple. Tommy D.

Tommy, I didn't have a problem with what you said in the first place, though I had a feeling it would get blown up, just cuz it could. But, if those that did have a problem with it read this apology by you, and STILL have a problem with it, then there's definitely something wrong with them. You made it right, let them deal with it now. Good job and peace, John.

 

[cardiac kid]

Rude Dog,

In some circles today, it is OK for young African-American men to continuously use the "N" word to describe others who look like them. If I were to use the same word to describe those same men, I would be singled out as a racist! The word Tommy D used, incited the same feeling in me and others. I'm over it. I accept his apology. It has become just another word ingrained in the American culture.

If you really had a physical problem with your face, not your Avatar, you might be more sensitive to other people's thoughts, deeds and words.

John, these are still just words on a screen. Very powerful words. But words none the less. I chose the word "incited" because that was the first reaction I had to it. Again, Seasons Greetings to all and to all a good life!

 

[drivermaker]

Tommy, I didn't have a problem with what you said in the first place, though I had a feeling it would get blown up, just cuz it could. But, if those that did have a problem with it read this apology by you, and STILL have a problem with it, then there's definitely something wrong with them. You made it right, let them deal with it now. Good job and peace, John.

Good post John. I was trying to think back in life when I first heard the phrase, "jew someone down" and I'm certain it was well before I was even a teenager. Have I ever used the term myself? Have I heard that phrase used by others many times again throughout my life. Yep.... Am I a racist that hates Jews or were the individuals that I first heard say that phrase racists?
NOPE!! Hell, I didn't even know what it meant other than "beat someone down in price" as a normal word to be found in the dictionary. At some point I was told that it had to do with Jewish people and I wanted to know why.
The explanation was that they were damn good business people and it was just a way of life for them.

The small town that I grew up in outside of Pittsburgh was a steel mill town with mostly individuals of Russian, Greek, and Italian descent. I don't even remember anyone throughout grade school or high school being Jewish, although there may have been but nobody cared one way or another. The first Jew that I came into contact with was my uncle Max that married one of my mother's sisters. Hers was a big family of 14 brothers and sisters and their mother and father (my grandparents) were from Yugoslavia. Although it was common place in the 40's to marry within your own ethnicity, my aunt fell in love with Max and they got married with a Jewish ceremony. Nobody cared one iota and he was always one of the family.

My father and almost all of my uncles worked in either the steel mills or coal mines doing hard labor. Uncle Max was a businessman that owned a hardware store in a town about 30 miles from us. I used to love visiting them as a kid because Uncle Max had more money than everyone else in the family with a beautiful home, large yard, and most importantly a ping pong table and a full size pool table in his rec room. My cousin and I used to live on those two tables and had a blast trying to beat each others brains out.

A couple of summers I stayed at their house for a couple of weeks to play with my cousin (and get out of my parents hair) and uncle Max would take me and my cousin to the store each day and put us to work cleaning up and other odds and end jobs. It was during that time I got to watch my uncle Max in action as a businessman. He supplied all of the contractors with lumber and products as Home Depot does it now and he was something to behold. He was tough, cunning, personable, charming, humorous, and I was soon to learn what the term "jew 'em down, or up" meant. He was a master!
What a negotiator, salesman, artist at work.

So, when I hear the term "jew 'em down or up" I always think of something totally different than Holocaust, hatred, oppression and all the things which were brought up on this thread. I have all the respect in the world for those that posted their views on this forum, but I just have to think that too many in the world are getting way too tight assed when it comes to anything that even verges on "political incorrectness". As far as I'm concerned political correctness has really gone too far and needs to be choked back a little because there are more fights starting as a result of accustations caused by it than any real harmful intentions. It's getting ridiculous.

My aunt died 4 years ago but uncle Max is now 88 and although he gave the business to his son, (which is still flourishing) he goes to the office/store faithfully every morning and stays almost a full day. His energy and love for the business is insatiable and what keeps him ticking and living life at it's fullest. He doesn't hide in a room when he's there either, he still goes out with the customers to "jew 'em" one way or another. If any of you feel that I am being racist, you can kiss my rosy butt. He's my uncle, he's always treated me fantastically, I love him to death and have the utmost respect for him. And knowing uncle Max as well as I do, he could give a shit less and would be laughing hard as he said, "yeah...I've been known to do that a time or two in my life". The term means nothing to him, he just isn't tight assed.

 

[JAM]

We the people...

...The word Tommy D used, incited the same feeling in me and others. I'm over it. I accept his apology. It has become just another word ingrained in the American culture....

I agree with you, Cardiac Kid, and I believe Tommy D truly meant no harm in his usage of the word.

...these are still just words on a screen. Very powerful words, but words none the less. I chose the word "incited" because that was the first reaction I had to it....

If you were to walk into a kindergarten class and speak with innocent children, they have no concept of HATRED between ethnicities, religious backgrounds, or color of skin. It is a learned prejudice, and even though some folks interpret "ethnicity slang" as trivial, there are MANY, to include me, who conceive of it as a very big negative.

Four years ago, a local high school in Muskogee, Oklahoma, became the center of a huge controversy when it was decided to remove the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel "To Kill a Mockingbird" from the libraries. Some African-American folk had objected to its explicit racial language. Other Americans felt it should remain on the shelf to make sure people never forget the bigotry and racism which was prevalent in the South in the '30s, revealing what prejudice and intolerance has cost our Nation. Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago, however, wanted this book to be a must-read for schools, providing an opportunity to think about the current state of affairs. Two different viewpoints on the same book.

I'm not sure who is right in the above-referenced incident about "To Kill a Mockingbird," but what this novel does reveal is that our views on diversity and race are often a product of how we were raised, our educational background, views of our friends, and the values of our community.

In 1964, President John F. Kennedy said, "Diversity is America's answer to the intolerant man." Just about 40 years later, President George Bush said, "By promoting diversity, we will continue to build a society where every person of every race can realize the promise of America."

Education is the beginning of opportunity, and it is also the foundation for diversity. Stereotyping and using racial slurs isn't a good thing and promotes the ugly prejudices which have plagued our society. I look forward to a future where all men are created equal and can live their life to the fullest with equal opportunity. "We the people...."

JAM

 

[sjm]

Four years ago, a local high school in Muskogee, Oklahoma, became the center of a huge controversy when it was decided to remove the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel "To Kill a Mockingbird" from the libraries. Some African-American folk had objected to its explicit racial language. Other Americans felt it should remain on the shelf to make sure people never forget the bigotry and racism which was prevalent in the South in the '30s, revealing what prejudice and intolerance has cost our Nation. Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago, however, wanted this book to be a must-read for schools, providing an opportunity to think about the current state of affairs. Two different viewpoints on the same book.

I'm not sure who is right in the above-referenced incident about "To Kill a Mockingbird," but what this novel does reveal is that our views on diversity and race are often a product of how we were raised, our educational background, views of our friends, and the values of our community.

JAM, To Kill a Mockingbird is a history lesson, an informative but painful encounter with a sad chapter in our history. In an interview, Harper Lee inidcated that the case at the center of the novel was loosely based on several she witnessed as a child. History is filled with tales of man's oppression against man, on the grounds of nationality, culture, race, ethnicity, philosophy, etc. To study these moments in history involves recounting acts and behavior so heinous that their very consideration torments our souls. Nonetheless, the payoff is that we gain a deeper understanding of ourselves that helps us avoid the mistakes of generations past. Ours and virtually all other socieites have concluded that the payoff is sufficient to merit advocation, rather than selective suppression, of the study of history.

While I respect the values of the school in Oklahoma, we must all rejoice in the fact that as a society, we usually choose to study our past in the hope that it will help us to make the right choices in the present and in the future.

 

[JAM]

Pool Urban Legend

JAM, To Kill a Mockingbird is a history lesson, an informative but painful encounter with a sad chapter in our history...the payoff is that we gain a deeper understanding of ourselves that helps us avoid the mistakes of generations past...While I respect the values of the school in Oklahoma, we must all rejoice in the fact that as a society, we usually choose to study our past in the hope that it will help us to make the right choices in the present and in the future.

Not so very long ago in the Deep South, there were two pool rooms across the street from each other, one for the whites and one for the blacks. Yet, when it came to action, discrimination seemed to not be enforced when it came to games of stake. In the pool room, it wasn't about the skin color; rather, it was the color of money (pun intended).

Endeavoring to get back on thread, a little urban legend recently passed my way, due to the research of a good friend. If this guy's research is correct, the most famous of all WOOFERS, Rudolph "Minnesota Fats" Wanderone, is the biological father of Blues Singer Etta James.

JAM