Why is the APA so frowned upon?

[gunzby]

At our BCA pre-season captain's meeting last night, we spoke with someone that previously played in the APA, and just recently chose to play in the BCA. He proceeded to tell us that the first place team (FIRST PLACE) in the APA last season took home exactly $100. Yep, one-hundred dollars. Second place received $50. That was the only money paid out. No team trip to Las Vegas, no singles trip, no trophies, nothing else.

The dues were $10 per week. Now, figuring $10 per player each week, and there were 37 people on that night... $370 a week. Multiply that times the 16 weeks on the season, and you've got $5,920. Minus the $150 from above... the LO banked $5,770 !!!

I'm certainly not opposed to an LO making money (it is not an easy job), but $5,770 ?!?!? And only paying out $150 ?!?!? There are other names for it, but most would call that criminal !!!

In our BCA league, when they make the payouts at the banquet, they include a printout with each team's prize money (check or cash) that shows a breakdown of how much was collected and how and where those monies were distributed.
And at just about any poker tourney, they include a formula (based on entries) of how the payouts are distributed.
To date, no one has claimed that our LO is 'making a killing'. The BCA requires thier annual $15 membership fee. The LO collects an additional one-time $15 for league sanction per season (and whatever he collects, he must divide between himself, the secretary and the treasurer). Depending on the amount of players per season, it roughly works out that the LO can buy themselves a plane ticket to Las Vegas (coach, of course) and maybe, with a few more players/teams in the league, entry fee in the singles.

For the constant work (scheduling, averages, collecting dues, etc.), that doesn't seem like much. IMO, I think that the LO's should make a bit more for the time they sacrifice and the problems and issues they have to deal with. But an LO keeping over 95% of the money is a bit much.

And yes, the APA is great for beginners... that simply want a night out and a chance to bang the balls around. Our BCA league always has at least one night of play that is not 'as serious' as the night of play for the Las Vegas trip. And that's the perfect night for APA players to continue to make the transition to the BCA because, aside from the $15 league sanction fee from above, ALL THE MONEY GOES BACK TO THE PLAYERS !!!

This past summer season, there were 6 teams playing. $400 team dues for the season times 6 teams equals $2400. An additional $670 collected from tavern fees brought the total to $3,036 (summer leagues are tough to fill). Guess how much was payed back to the players ?? $3,036 !!!!! AND LAST PLACE COLLECTED OVER $300 !!!!!

All I'm saying is that it's nice to know where our money goes...

I play in the APA (BCA is nowhere near me). Winning the cities here gets you $8,000 p/team (8 and 9 ball teams). I can't remember what the Masters pays out, but it is a fair amount as well. They hold the cities 3 times a year I think so that is $48,000 and when ya add in the Masters it's over $50,000. Back when the SBE had an APA tournament they would also send the 2nd place team there with like $2,000 as well.

Can't help but mention that the cities is held at the Metrolina Expo in Charlotte with about 80 Diamond BBs.

After reading gripe after gripe about the APA on this forum I'm thinking that I have it really good where I am.

 

[gunzby]

One thing I will mention in a separate post is that I play in the APA because I love playing. I don't think the APA will make me a better player......I think that I will make myself a better player.

 

[genomachino]

Business is right..........

Your first two sentences answer your question in my opinion.

"No league offers as much to gain as the APA". This is true - buy an APA franchise and you can make more money off pool players than any other league. Remember, an APA franchise IS a BUSINESS.

"There are many ways to get to Vegas and so many ways to make some money".

The whole APA marketing strategy is based on the possibility of what might happen and not the probability. Everyone can Play anyone can win. Hundreds of thousands in prize money!

Take a look at your league - figure out the percentage of teams that go to Vegas maybe 1 in 30 or 40. You will also find that certain teams or captains win a disproportionate amount of the the trips. Have you wondered why? This should not happen if everything was handicapped properly. Every year they disqualify teams in Vegas for cheating. OK, that is cool they DQ'd a team in Vegas. Well for every team they DQ in Vegas there are a couple of dozen back in those teams home towns that were cheated out of their time, efforts and money. No team should be DQ'd in Vegas the League operators should catch them before they go after all the teams have played all year long in their local league under the eye of the ever vigilant Division Reps and League operators..

When i was down in Kansas city the APA guy there had 3 leagues he had for sale. I think the number was $110,000.00. That's alot of business.

If they operator makes that much money how do the players get paid well?

I've never played APA so I have no idea. But this is my only qyuestion.

Where's the cash going............

 

[Lance Link]

So , in this 100% payback situation , where is the league operators incentive to operate the league ? Is it a volunteer position ? Who pays for the paper this printout is on , and the computer it was calculated with ?

There's something your leaving out , somewhere . . .

I've left nothing out. In one of my earlier posts, I'd stated that :

A) $15 per player is collected for the BCA membership fee (annually). That money goes directly to the BCA. The LO sees none of that.

B) An ADDITIONAL $15 per player is collected (league sanction fee) by the LO. Now, THAT money is what the LO is paid.
If there are 100 players playing in a season, at $15 per player, then the LO gets... $1500.

C) All of the weekly dues AND the tavern fees is what goes BACK TO THE PLAYERS.

The example you quoted from me is accurate. The LO only keeps the $15 per player league sanction fee. And in my particular league, there is a secretary and a treasurer, so the afforementioned $1500 has to be distributed between the three of them.

The paper that it was printed on ? The LO uses that SAME $15 PER PLAYER to offset those costs plus the ink cartridges PLUS the cost of keeping a dedicated fax line for receiving scoresheets PLUS the cost of maintaining the website (www.rochesterpool.com).

The computer it was calculated with ??? Yes, I'm sure that there are still people that don't own a laptop or a desktop. But I have yet to find anyone without a computer that wants to run a pool league. When that person shows up, I'm certain the issue would be addressed then.
Heck, there were guys runnin' pool leagues before computers, so I would guess that it's still possible to do it today.

And everyone knows going in that the $15 per player goes to the LO. There are no surprises...

 

[enzo]

this is a good question, and i didn't read through the entire thread, but here is what i think:

the apa pretty much destroys the quality of play in the united states (imo). you have replaced tournaments, and thus people getting in the "pit" and playing for some real money, with weekly drinking and "fun" for lack of a better word. im not saying you cant have fun, just saying i dont feel the apa encourages good play in any way. if we want to have top players, as we do in golf or tennis even, we'll get away from this, hopefully. my best example, you wont find no apa in the philipines, will you? those guys are getting in the pit daily, grinding it out. that is what makes good players. apa has taken almost ALL the local tournaments out, at least in my area. it is the "anti-pool" as far as im concerned, as i want to see one thing...... good pool playing.

 

[CK6Speed]

I joined an APA league for a few main reason only. To play and meet other people. I don't care to go or really want to go to Vegas, I don't even care how much money our team could win if we advanced far enough. I have a job and that is where I make my money. If I wanted to go to Vegas, I'd call my friends up and schedule a trip. APA Pool league is simply to play some pool for me. Win or loose I don't care. I don't even care who my team matches me up with for the most part. I play the table layout first, then maybe play my opponent if I see certain weaknesses. I'm only an 8-Ball SL6, so its not like I'm good at pool. It's all about going out with friends, having a good time, and playing others rather than ourselves for a change. Obviously I do want to play the best I can play, but that is it. I don't care how good or how bad my opponent plays. The only thing I care about in my match is how I play. If it is good enough to win, good. If not I go home and try again next week. Anyone wanting to make money in an APA league should really just enter tournaments and test their skills there. I keep qualifying for the APA singles tournaments, but I have never entered one yet. I'm kind of over the league and in house tournament thing already.

 

[Icon of Sin]

APA is geared more toward the low level players. The majority of people you hear complaining (such as myself) are on the higher side of the APA ranking system. Ever see someone who doesn't really play pool and asked them to join a pool league? There first reponse is generally "you don't want me I'm terrible", when in fact that is exactly what you want. You want someone that is gonna be a lower rated player and stay there so you can field a full team. If you are a Skill Level 3 in apa 8ball or 9ball, then you are one of the most valuable players on the league.

The most of the rules are geared towards the bangers. No push outs... hard to explain the push out strategy to a lower level player, so they just eliminate it altogether using the motto "ignorance is bliss". Have you ever tried gambling with someone who plays mainly apa and then called a push out and you have to explain what it is because they never heard of it and think you are cheating? That's a damn nightmare. Its best just to avoid that scenario altogether.

Ball count 9ball??? A bastardization of a great game. The only positive from it is the accurate ratings it can produce. This is also one of the biggest drawbacks as well. It is soooo much easier for a cheater to take advantage of another player. If joe bagger is a SL4 and is player jim honesty who is also a SL4 but joe bagger is crushing him cause he is underrated then it is easier for joe bagger to dog a few balls here and there to drive up the inning count and keep him rated lower then what he should be. These are the players that end up winning too. Sure you see a lot of honest teams snagging the trips to vegas, but the cheaters are the ones you see winning it multiple time. Hell, I can think of 2 teams in my area that go to vegas almost every year. Some players from thos teams going on multiple teams too. Absurd.

Now here is the rule that is said to be for the bangers but doesn't make any sense. The no jump cue rule. They take away the one thing that you could teach a SL3 to jump properly with. Makes no sense at all. This is kin of a blessing and a curse. Lower player plays a weaked safety, I can jump with my full cue when chances are they cannot. I will admit, it would be easier with the jumper though.

I could list more reasons to not like the apa and I could list a ton to stay in it at a high skill level (the reasons why I still shoot in it), but I typed this big ass post on my phone and my thumbs are starting to hurt.

 

[Lance Link]

It's nice to know where the money goes...

I think that leagues such as the APA are great for people that would not normally consider playing pool...

But in my opinion, due to many of the table rules regarding APA, that new player would most likely NOT get better simply because LUCK counts. What other league are you rewarded for basically poking at the balls and making something out of cluster-luck ?

(Now I'm aware that professional players 'get lucky' sometimes and make the nine, but that type of luck usually comes from an extension of thier originally planned shot, i.e. a good roll).

But please don't misunderstand...

If there is any league available in your area, and you have a passion for the game (like most of us), then YES, by all means, I suggest joining it. It's a great way to meet people and, at the same time, play the game we all enjoy.

However, if you have a choice of leagues to join, then I highly suggest looking into the dynamics of all of the choices you have, and base your decision on what you find. Become more well-informed about the leagues and thier history...
I'm quite certain you will talk to people from the APA that HATE the BCA and the TAP for whatever reasons.
I'm also certain you will talk to people from the BCA that HATE the TAP and the APA for various reasons.
I'm even certain you will talk to people from the TAP that HATE the BCA and the APA for completely different reasons.
And remember there are two sides to every story...

If you need new tires, and there's only tire place in the area, then you're going to have to pay thier price.
If there's more than one, then you're most likely going to shop around.
And the same tire may come with a better warranty at one place than the other, regardless of the price.

My overall point is that if you have choices in your area, shop around. Some of the BCA leagues have a "non-competitive" night in your area, if you're just looking for a night out. If you like what the BCA LO is offering, then play in it. If you like what the APA LO does, then play in that league.

I have yet to see a BCA-bashing thread, but I continue to find them for the APA.
Every now and again I spot a BCA thread, and it's about a rule question ("this happened in our league match last night, and we weren't sure how to call it").
All the APA threads I seem to find are about LO favoritism, low paybacks, and teams disqualified at the national level.

Isn't an alternate league at least worth looking into ?

And if there's not a league in your area, consider starting one. The governing body of the league you choose has the resources to not only help you get your league off the ground, but they can also help you grow it. It's in thier best interest to have as many leagues as possible...

The APA's website : www.poolplayers.com

The BCA's website : www.playbca.com

The TAP league's website : www.tapleague.com

 

[Lance Link]

And if I owned a bar that sponsored a team...

From what I know about the different leagues, I would have to sponsor a BCA team...

Let's assume that play starts at 7:00 at night...

If I sponsor an APA team, the captains and the first player from each team have to be present at 7:00 to start play.
Depending on the number of games or balls needed, the next two opponents may not have to show up until 8:30.
The first two players finish playing and leave, and this cycle continues until the last players are finished.
At any given time, I've had 4 to 6 people in my bar spending money.

The BCA teams play four rounds a night (it may be more rounds in some areas).
Each player plays once per round.
So at 7:00, there need to be at least 3 people from each team to start. Even if those three play the first three games (and the other two shuffle in during those games), I've got 10 people in my bar spending money.

As a bar owner, If I do the math, I'm makin' more money from the BCA players. All 10 are here earlier (versus 4 to 6), and all 10 have to stay until at least the first match in the last round.

And to know that the money I've put up to sponsor the team is going back to the players ? For me (as a 'bar owner'), that makes the choice an easy one.

 

[Factor]

Simple economics

I just don't understand all the APA bashing. It is a business and from my point of view, if I don't like a product, I don't patronize the business. If the product (or service) is that bad, then eventually the business either fails or has to change in order to continue. If there are enough customers to "carry" the business then maybe it doesn't fail or change. Either way, I can look elsewhere. For those that say there is no BCA around them, it isn't too difficult to sanction your own league. You just need to take the initiative to do something to make a change - kind of what you are paying a league operator to do. Run the business.
I don't disagree one bit that league operators make money, but like any independant franchise location, some are good at what they provide and some are not. Some are successful and some are not, but it's the customer that ultimately determines the success. It is a choice. I don't berate individuals for the choices they make at the grocery store every week. Maybe I buy different products because those are the products I feel deserve my money. It's all perceived value.

As for the luck factor of slopping balls in. It's like playing poker with a loose cannon. Yes, they are going to draw out on me once in a while, but I'll gladly take their money the large percentage of the time when they shouldn't even be in the hand. More often than not, the "slop" player will do something stupid that is to my advantage at the table. I'll take that percentage too.

Just my two cents. Actually that was more like a quarter.

 

[justadub]

I think that leagues such as the APA are great for people that would not normally consider playing pool...

But in my opinion, due to many of the table rules regarding APA, that new player would most likely NOT get better simply because LUCK counts. What other league are you rewarded for basically poking at the balls and making something out of cluster-luck ?

Do you or have you played APA? I ask this in all sincerity. I fail to see the "luck" or "slop" factor running rampant in our matches here locally. Again, perhaps we are simply different here, but I doubt that.

I can't recall more than maybe one or two slop shots total in all of my 12 matches this past session, from either myself or my opponents. Maybe that many. And I played a handful of SL3's, which had to be when they occurred. I'm far from the best player in our division. I also keep score for many of our matches, and truly would be surprised if there were more than 3 or 4 total in all 5 matches each week. If that many.

The whole slop issue is so overblown it amazes me to see it brought up over and over here. Again, this is my experience in my division only, so perhaps it is a total epidemic nationwide and we're somehow isolated and inoculated from it all. Perhaps.

The reason slop is allowed is to not have matches between beginners last all night. This is totally reasonable. APA is a league that is friendly to beginners. That is the point of it all. Allowing slop is totally inline with that philosophy. Anyone who has any experience at all will not have slop occur very often.

As for players learning the game being adversely affected by this silly little rule, I believe you're being overly-dramatic. Anyone who plays any amount at all will learn that the slop rule is only in effect during APA league play, and that they can't count on that when playing outside of league. And those who only play in an APA league aren't concerned about the so called "real" rules in any event, since those individuals won't ever be subject to those rules. So YOU won't have to explain the difference to them anyway.

Much ado about nothing, just another excuse to rail at the lowly APA player and make fun of them.

 

[snipershot]

Do you or have you played APA? I ask this in all sincerity. I fail to see the "luck" or "slop" factor running rampant in our matches here locally. Again, perhaps we are simply different here, but I doubt that.

I can't recall more than maybe one or two slop shots total in all of my 12 matches this past session, from either myself or my opponents. Maybe that many. And I played a handful of SL3's, which had to be when they occurred. I'm far from the best player in our division. I also keep score for many of our matches, and truly would be surprised if there were more than 3 or 4 total in all 5 matches each week. If that many.

The whole slop issue is so overblown it amazes me to see it brought up over and over here. Again, this is my experience in my division only, so perhaps it is a total epidemic nationwide and we're somehow isolated and inoculated from it all. Perhaps.

The reason slop is allowed is to not have matches between beginners last all night. This is totally reasonable. APA is a league that is friendly to beginners. That is the point of it all. Allowing slop is totally inline with that philosophy. Anyone who has any experience at all will not have slop occur very often.

As for players learning the game being adversely affected by this silly little rule, I believe you're being overly-dramatic. Anyone who plays any amount at all will learn that the slop rule is only in effect during APA league play, and that they can't count on that when playing outside of league. And those who only play in an APA league aren't concerned about the so called "real" rules in any event, since those individuals won't ever be subject to those rules. So YOU won't have to explain the difference to them anyway.

Much ado about nothing, just another excuse to rail at the lowly APA player and make fun of them.

So which one is true here? You say it doesnt happen, then you say the rule is so that it counts when it DOES happen? I worked at a pool hall and seen first hand the bs involved with the apa, so you can say im just picking on the poor little helpless apa player all you want, but I saw enough crap to make me never want to play. I had captains come ask me to join their team, and one of the first things they would all say is that sometimes I would have to lose to help the team. When I would say "So you want me to go all over town, spend my money at a bar thats got trash tables, pay $10 to the apa, pay a few more dollars in quarters, and lose on purpose?" My response was always the same. "No thanks". You can bash me if you like, but until you have played where its bad, you cant possibly expect me or anyone else to agree with your assessment that the apa is great.


Joe

 

[justadub]

So which one is true here? You say it doesnt happen, then you say the rule is so that it counts when it DOES happen? I worked at a pool hall and seen first hand the bs involved with the apa, so you can say im just picking on the poor little helpless apa player all you want, but I saw enough crap to make me never want to play. I had captains come ask me to join their team, and one of the first things they would all say is that sometimes I would have to lose to help the team. When I would say "So you want me to go all over town, spend my money at a bar thats got trash tables, pay $10 to the apa, pay a few more dollars in quarters, and lose on purpose?" My response was always the same. "No thanks". You can bash me if you like, but until you have played where its bad, you cant possibly expect me or anyone else to agree with your assessment that the apa is great.


Joe

I agree with you completely. If that's how it goes where you are, it really sucks. No argument.

No one had better ask me to lose. (I can do that all on my own, and I sure won't be trying to do it! :grin: ) I play to win, period. That mentality would make me think poorly of the whole thing, as well.

It's too bad people have to be like that.

BTW, when I said that I don't see much slop, I meant it. Maybe we're just fortunate here. But I understand why they allow it, for the beginners sake. I have had some slop in the past, just not a heck of a lot recently. Certainly not any amount I would call a lot. Oh well, just me again.

 

[Lance Link]

It's nice to know where the money goes...

Do you or have you played APA? I ask this in all sincerity. I fail to see the "luck" or "slop" factor running rampant in our matches here locally. Again, perhaps we are simply different here, but I doubt that.

I can't recall more than maybe one or two slop shots total in all of my 12 matches this past session, from either myself or my opponents. Maybe that many. And I played a handful of SL3's, which had to be when they occurred. I'm far from the best player in our division. I also keep score for many of our matches, and truly would be surprised if there were more than 3 or 4 total in all 5 matches each week. If that many.

The whole slop issue is so overblown it amazes me to see it brought up over and over here. Again, this is my experience in my division only, so perhaps it is a total epidemic nationwide and we're somehow isolated and inoculated from it all. Perhaps.

The reason slop is allowed is to not have matches between beginners last all night. This is totally reasonable. APA is a league that is friendly to beginners. That is the point of it all. Allowing slop is totally inline with that philosophy. Anyone who has any experience at all will not have slop occur very often.

As for players learning the game being adversely affected by this silly little rule, I believe you're being overly-dramatic. Anyone who plays any amount at all will learn that the slop rule is only in effect during APA league play, and that they can't count on that when playing outside of league. And those who only play in an APA league aren't concerned about the so called "real" rules in any event, since those individuals won't ever be subject to those rules. So YOU won't have to explain the difference to them anyway.

Much ado about nothing, just another excuse to rail at the lowly APA player and make fun of them.

Justadub, I played in an APA league for about six weeks (before the millenium, and that's all I will elude to my age).

I shot with a K-Mart stick I never changed the tip on, and within the first three weeks I was made an SL7, simply because I knew how to move the cueball from one end of the table to the other. Playing people that barely know how to make a bridge. That experience was not what I wanted from a league, and at that time I was far from being a 'solid player'.

I wanted to play, and learn from, better players. When I first joined our local BCA league, I took my share of losses. But I also learned from many great players (including the late Pat Howey) about why they played a shot the way they played it.

And I learned a great deal of ettiquete, on and off the table.

And this league taught me to 'play to win'. The rules of BCA play require me to call a ball and a pocket. In the APA, all I have to do is 'poke and hope' (which I'd seen MANY times in the six weeks I'd played). So yes, there is a considerable amount of luck involved with the APA rules.

The pride that these BCA players exuberated was what I wanted. I mean, these guys were good. I wanted to be that good (and still do).

Sandbagging to these guys meant going down to Charlotte Beach with a burlap sack...

Not only from my own experience, but from the posts on this forum, sandbagging seems to be rewarded in the APA.

If I were playing in an APA league today, and found out that the team that went to Las Vegas was disqualified for inaccurate averages ?? That would probably be the last time I play in that league.
Here I am, playing my best, and the LO's friends that have been 'suckin' out' the entire season get to Vegas, only to get kicked out of the tourney because of a handicapping issue ??

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's what I suggest to anyone reading this post...

Don't take my or anyone else's word for gospel.

Go online to any of the pool organizations and look up the LO for your area.

Then call that person.

Ask them to explain thier league to you.

Ask them how the handicap system works.

Ask them about dues.

Ask them how the money is paid back.

And see for yourself who has the players best interest in mind...

www.poolplayers.com

www.playbca.com

www.tapleague.com

And afterwards, if YOU'RE happy with the league that YOU choose, then that's all that matters.

All I've ever suggested is that the players do the research and be well-informed about the league they join.

 

[cardiac kid]

Interesting thing about this thread on the APA is a couple of common comments. One, sandbagging is encouraged. Two, losing intentionally is also encouraged.

Mentioned earlier in this thread I planned on playing intermittantly in a local APA league this fall. Have my reasons for doing so. My tenure will be very short if either of the two is asked of me. Discovered playing pool can really be fun. Took me over 50 years to learn that simple concept. My weekly 40 oz's of beer and a dozen hot chicken wings. Good friends, cold beer and the game of pool. Ah retirement!

Lyn

 

[justadub]

Justadub, I played in an APA league for about six weeks (before the millenium, and that's all I will elude to my age).

I shot with a K-Mart stick I never changed the tip on, and within the first three weeks I was made an SL7, simply because I knew how to move the cueball from one end of the table to the other. Playing people that barely know how to make a bridge. That experience was not what I wanted from a league, and at that time I was far from being a 'solid player'.

I wanted to play, and learn from, better players. When I first joined our local BCA league, I took my share of losses. But I also learned from many great players (including the late Pat Howey) about why they played a shot the way they played it.

And I learned a great deal of ettiquete, on and off the table.

And this league taught me to 'play to win'. The rules of BCA play require me to call a ball and a pocket. In the APA, all I have to do is 'poke and hope' (which I'd seen MANY times in the six weeks I'd played). So yes, there is a considerable amount of luck involved with the APA rules.

The pride that these BCA players exuberated was what I wanted. I mean, these guys were good. I wanted to be that good (and still do).

Sandbagging to these guys meant going down to Charlotte Beach with a burlap sack...

Not only from my own experience, but from the posts on this forum, sandbagging seems to be rewarded in the APA.

If I were playing in an APA league today, and found out that the team that went to Las Vegas was disqualified for inaccurate averages ?? That would probably be the last time I play in that league.
Here I am, playing my best, and the LO's friends that have been 'suckin' out' the entire season get to Vegas, only to get kicked out of the tourney because of a handicapping issue ??

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's what I suggest to anyone reading this post...

Don't take my or anyone else's word for gospel.

Go online to any of the pool organizations and look up the LO for your area.

Then call that person.

Ask them to explain thier league to you.

Ask them how the handicap system works.

Ask them about dues.

Ask them how the money is paid back.

And see for yourself who has the players best interest in mind...

www.poolplayers.com

www.playbca.com

www.tapleague.com

And afterwards, if YOU'RE happy with the league that YOU choose, then that's all that matters.

All I've ever suggested is that the players do the research and be well-informed about the league they join.

Well said. All of it.

 

[jbravo2984]

I'll simply address the title of this thread.

The APA ruined traditional Old School Pocket Billiards. Alcohol, loud music, bar tables with 8" pockets, slop shots, sandbagging, 8-ball on the break wins???... sigh... Yes, the APA has made pool more popular than it would have been without it. That is a good thing. Unfortunately, the other byproducts aren't. Leave it to America to bastardize yet another great thing in world history... Yes I'm American, and proud. Usually...

 

[cookie man]

Lyn, You are a recognized good player. You or your captain should insist to your LO that you are a 7 in 8-ball and a 9 in 9-ball. You have no reason to lose or be asked to lose.

Interesting thing about this thread on the APA is a couple of common comments. One, sandbagging is encouraged. Two, losing intentionally is also encouraged.

Mentioned earlier in this thread I planned on playing intermittantly in a local APA league this fall. Have my reasons for doing so. My tenure will be very short if either of the two is asked of me. Discovered playing pool can really be fun. Took me over 50 years to learn that simple concept. My weekly 40 oz's of beer and a dozen hot chicken wings. Good friends, cold beer and the game of pool. Ah retirement!

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

Lyn, You are a recognized good player. You or your captain should insist to your LO that you are a 7 in 8-ball and a 9 in 9-ball. You have no reason to lose or be asked to lose.

Already tried. Everyone starts as a 4 (Four). First two weeks I guess. Must be in the APA rule book somewhere. Incidentally, thanks for the nice comment. Hope I enjoy my every other week as much as my regular three nights of BCAPL. I'll let you folks know.

Lyn

 

[Lance Link]

Lyn, You are a recognized good player. You or your captain should insist to your LO that you are a 7 in 8-ball and a 9 in 9-ball. You have no reason to lose or be asked to lose.

I don't think it would go over very well if somebody asks Lyn to take a dive...