Why Is There Such A Stigma Concerning Adam / Helmstetter Point Blanks And Cues
- Thread starter manwon
- Start date
Here is a Spain blank that was ordered at the time of the sheet I referenced.
That is 1967
Obviously before he was doing the maple handle....
JV
That is 1967
Obviously before he was doing the maple handle....
JV
classiccues said:Here is a Spain blank that was ordered at the time of the sheet I referenced.
That is 1967
Obviously before he was doing the maple handle....
JV
Hello JV, were all his early blanks Full Splice like the one pictured or did he also make Short Spliced Blanks?
Also JV, can you help identify the maker or makers of the cues in the photo below.
Thanks for the photo's JV
manwon said:
According to the pricing sheet I posted of Burtons you could buy them short and long.
I like the Paradise as Burtons and the other three as Palmers, maybe not the far right? Tough pic.. would have liked to see them close up individually...
JV
Old Palmers
The above was a first catalog cue.
This might have been a pre-catalog concept cue. But it was very old.. Also obviously full splice.
WICO point Palmer
JV
The above was a first catalog cue.
This might have been a pre-catalog concept cue. But it was very old.. Also obviously full splice.
WICO point Palmer
JV
classiccues said:Here is a Spain blank that was ordered at the time of the sheet I referenced.
That is 1967
Obviously before he was doing the maple handle....
JV
Adams also made Full Spiced Cues and Short splices that were also intern spliced to the cues handle. I suppose Burton use a similar technique. I have a photo of a 1960's vintage Spain short splice but I just have not been able to find it.
Below are two cues by Adam from the 1970's, a Full and a Short Splice in the same photo.
classiccues said:Old Palmers
The above was a first catalog cue.
This might have been a pre-catalog concept cue. But it was very old.. Also obviously full splice.
WICO point Palmer
JV
JV, what is th approximate time frame that Bob Meucci started making the WICO Blanks?
What Catalog would you estimate the Palmer in the above photo be from?
manwon said:
I see some confusion already... a short splice historically is a prong blank that ends abruptly at the a joint. What you are showing here is a long prong, like the one I showed, but that short splice you are referencing is what Burton worked on perfecting in the 90's, ironically similarly being used much earlier as you have shown. Below is also a Burton Spain from the 90's..
In Burtons blank memoirs he does reference the true short splice and his opinions on the inferiority of that blank and the use of the "A" joint.
JV
manwon said:
??? Don't know.. I didn't bring that point up... But probably mid to late 60's. 66/69 for that Palmer..
JV
TATE said:
http://www.proficientbilliards.com/cues/Palmer/idcustommix/pages/DSC02162_jpg.htm
http://www.proficientbilliards.com/cues/Palmer/MOP_butt_cap/pages/DSC03777_jpg.htm
Tate,
I have come across those blanks on ocasion.But they are not Adam forearms. they are knock offs from china.They generaly have either fewer or thinner veneers. the one with the blue veneer is very common on 1970's china / tiawan cues. it looks close, but the blue is not an adam dye color.
I will post picks of the ones they are copies of.
for the most part, the old adam blanks are first rate! as good as any ever made. But unfortunatly they did turn loose of some with very un-even points.
I have one spain blank cue left, of the few i have had in my collection. It is certainly a nice one, But no better by any means than many of my adam blanks.
Jayman.
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What you are showing here is a long prong, like the one I showed, but that short splice you are referencing is what Burton worked on perfecting in the 90's, ironically similarly being used much earlier as you have shown. Below I see some confusion already... a short splice historically is a prong blank that ends abruptly at the a joint also a Burton Spain from the 90's..
Here I could be wrong, but I think in a true Full Splice Cue the wood in the points will extent all the way to the cues Butt. Now the cue I refered to as short splice is just that from a cue makers point of veiw. However, it could also be called a non-standard Full splice because the handle is again spliced to the forearm. I do understand your point Jv, I just do not know what to really call this construction.
Here is a very interesting form of point construction, the cue below has 9 veneer's over a very very small point. Anyone want ot guess who made it?
It was on a cue from the Lou Butara series made in the 1980's I think.
Here I could be wrong, but I think in a true Full Splice Cue the wood in the points will extent all the way to the cues Butt. Now the cue I refered to as short splice is just that from a cue makers point of veiw. However, it could also be called a non-standard Full splice because the handle is again spliced to the forearm. I do understand your point Jv, I just do not know what to really call this construction.
Here is a very interesting form of point construction, the cue below has 9 veneer's over a very very small point. Anyone want ot guess who made it?
It was on a cue from the Lou Butara series made in the 1980's I think.
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hangemhigh said:
I asked him about it. He was only exposed in a limitted way to the overall cue market at the time. Burton had all the industry knowledge. He really didn't know who else was doing what. He had a very narrow job, to build full splice blanks for George Balabushka. He told me he just used straight maple for the forearm. He told me he had a hard time telling some of the Adam blanks from his own work.
Chris
manwon said:
I'm referring to the V splice as the way the handle is attached (I suppose it could be called a butterfly too).
These cues are: left side, a Paradise Diamond King (not with a Spain blank, one of his last cues), 2nd cue is a Viking built on a Palmer forearm, third from the left is a Palmer 1st catalog Model 5 from about 1965, far right is a Palmer 1st catalog Model 9. You can see all three blanks are the same, with the Paradise being built from the same basic material, same measurements, and a very similar forearm.
Chris
The way the handle is attached
manwon said:
The first Spain I have shown from 1967 is his 29" long ebony blank. The second Spain I have shown was his revamped "full splice". Even though the prong wood doesn't continue the full length they are considered a full splice. A shorty splice is 13" long.
Joe