Why isn't spalted maple used more in cues?

[Subsonic2u]

Sorry I got off the subject

To those that provided good info and pics, thank you.

I did forget to add that apparently the spalted wood in my Q handle must have been "cross cut" as the designs are not long as in the pic of that beautiful guitar. The designs on the handle are more roundish, oval, oblong, not long, running the length of the handle as in the guitar. If I ever get some pics, I'll post them here. Thanx for the constructive info.

 

[BrooklynJay]

Since I posted the photo (from www.bunnbass.com which deals in high end instruments) let me clarify that the spalted beechwood in the photo is only a top and bottom layer sandwiching a mahogany core. the bass isn't made completely of spalted wood.

I posted in response to the phrase that spalted wood "is NOT ever suitable for cues or much of anything else for that matter."

I think that spalted wood, as in any wood, would be fine for cues if quality pieces are used and inspected properly.

 

[macguy]

First let me say that the pic of the quitar is a stunning beauty. Wow

Macguy: I just re read my posts, and I never once came close to saying that I did not believe what I was being told as to the cause of spalting. In fact, I don't even c how u arrived at that opinion. All I know is that it is indeed wood that is in the process of rotting. I live in PA and most of the wood I burn is maple. I c spalted maple probably almost daily during the wood burning season. In the early stages it is still heavy and solid with beautiful markings. In the late stages it becomes soft, light and spongy, hardly worth burning. Now after u read this, if u still want to say I don't believe what I'm being told, then say what u want. I was on AZ late last nite and saw several of your posts, and each one was negative, agressive, and designed to start an argument. Especially the ones about Grady. If you're on the rag, just read and don't make posts until your period is over. AZ does not need counter productive posts designed to create arguments. Perhaps that's how u get your enjoys, but we don't need your problems.

Do you also post under the name Brooklyn Jay, that is who the response is to. I don't recall even making any responses to you at all. The reason my response was phrased as it was, was in direct response to this statement.
Quote
"I'm sure if the wood was rotten in any way that it would effect tonal qualities and not be used in an instrument. For a cue I would think it's fine."

I think my question was not out of place. Please read the threads before making knee jerk comments.

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Since I posted the photo (from www.bunnbass.com which deals in high end instruments) let me clarify that the spalted beechwood in the photo is only a top and bottom layer sandwiching a mahogany core. the bass isn't made completely of spalted wood.

I posted in response to the phrase that spalted wood "is NOT ever suitable for cues or much of anything else for that matter."

I think that spalted wood, as in any wood, would be fine for cues if quality pieces are used and inspected properly.

I have built thousands of fine cues and I can promise you that there is no way that spalted wood is suitable for any cue. The wood is rotten - period - nothing else to be said about it. You can inspect it from now until the end of time and it will always be rotten and there is no such thing as a quality piece.

I know other cuemakers use it in their cues and they should be ashamed of themselves. There are many kinds of beautiful woods suitable for cues and it is not necessary to use wood that has started to rot just because it is pretty to the unsuspecting novice.

 

[MVPCues]

First let me say that the pic of the quitar is a stunning beauty. Wow

Macguy: I just re read my posts, and I never once came close to saying that I did not believe what I was being told as to the cause of spalting. In fact, I don't even c how u arrived at that opinion. All I know is that it is indeed wood that is in the process of rotting. I live in PA and most of the wood I burn is maple. I c spalted maple probably almost daily during the wood burning season. In the early stages it is still heavy and solid with beautiful markings. In the late stages it becomes soft, light and spongy, hardly worth burning. Now after u read this, if u still want to say I don't believe what I'm being told, then say what u want. I was on AZ late last nite and saw several of your posts, and each one was negative, agressive, and designed to start an argument. Especially the ones about Grady. If you're on the rag, just read and don't make posts until your period is over. AZ does not need counter productive posts designed to create arguments. Perhaps that's how u get your enjoys, but we don't need your problems.

Sorry Subsonic, (and I see macguy responded as well), but macguy's question was not inappropriate. While he sometimes can be viewed as negative or challenging with perhaps a surly attitude, he simply asked someone if they disbelieved what they were being told about how spalting occurs. Also, he did not quote you but someone else, and he was responding to this I believe:
"I'm sure if the wood was rotten in any way that it would effect tonal qualities and not be used in an instrument."

That statement does lend me to believe that the original poster doubts the association of the word "rotten" with spalted woods that are used in musical instruments. That is not correct thinking. If a luthier thought he could use spalted wood and get away with it, he would use it, despite whether other luthiers would use it or not. Same as cuemakers.

You did state in a post "However that is not spalted, just highly figured grain. It sure is purty tho. "

If you are talking about the veneer on the guitar body, then that is not correct. That wood is definitely spalted, and by its very definition underwent a stage of rot.

The spalt lines in a piece may be very defined but some of the integrity of the wood itself may remain. Sometimes spalt lines are not strong and the entire piece is nearly basalt wood properties. Sometimes the wood is impregnated with pentracryl, sometimes it undergoes heavy vacuum and is treated with something else, sometimes it is just sealed very well, but regardless, spalted wood has undergone a rotting stage. Some cuemakers might use it only for inlay or sleeves, some might find some that are still rather hard and stable and core it for a forearm, some might have a place stabilize it, some might never touch it, but in the end it is still wood that has had some level of rot attack it during its existence, despite sometimes being quite attractive.
Kelly

 

[Subsonic2u]

Early Stages vs Late Stages

Mr. Wadsworth, u have a top reputation as a Q maker. A very fine reputation. I have never owned one of yours, but have friends that do. They speak very highly of your quality. In fact, I've never heard a complaint of any of your Qs.

I have to agree with u if u are speaking of wood in a later stage. I think the key is to get it in the very early stage when it is still heavy and solid. Almost the same as maple that is not spalted. As I said before, I have seen and cut spalted maple daily during the cold months for about 40 years. I'm glad that there are many other Q makers that do not share your opinion about spalted wood. Perhaps they are very careful to choose only the correct wood. My Q is about 3 years old and still very solid and as good as new. If it ever "falls apart", I'll b sure to make a post here on AZ.

Just read another post. I definately called the wood in the guitar spalted. U can c it. All spalted wood IS in the stages of rot. Some, in the very beginning stages remains in good shape, it is still solid and can b used in some applications in woodworking. In the later stages, forget it. It's hardly good for anything except fertilizing the forests.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Lots of spalted woods are used in very high end basses and is very sought after. I'm sure if the wood was rotten in any way that it would effect tonal qualities and not be used in an instrument. For a cue I would think it's fine.

The wood shown in use here is a veneer, bonded to a much more stable hardwood.

I've had several pieces of spalted maple just shatter on the lathe.
Hard and soft wood swirled together may look awesom but it is not easy to work.

I'd question the stability and strength even after a piece is "stabilized".

 

[MVPCues]

Just read another post. I definately called the wood in the guitar spalted. U can c it.

Perhaps the quote "However that is not spalted, just highly figured grain. It sure is purty tho. " was talking about the olivewood. Your post was after both pictures were posted, the guitar body being the most recent.
Kelly

 

[JoeyInCali]

Take a 1.5 by 1.5 by 12 to 18 inches of spalted maple and bounce it off the cement floor.
Then tell me if it's good for cues ( forearm or handle ) or not.

 

[daytonajoe]

Here's one

here is a nice Richard Chuddy in spalted maple

http://www.cornerstonecustomcues.com/cues/lrgcues/014d.html

 

[Craig Fales]

There is a fungus amungus...LOLz...http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/Articles/Spalting_a_Fungus_Amongus.asp
________

 

[Cuedog]

Lighter?

Since spalted wood it is rotting wood, does that make it lighter than the same type maple, etc. that is healthy? Is the drying time equivalent to normal drying times?

Thank you

Gene

 

[Cuedog]

?

Can anyone respond to the above? Thank you.

Gene

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Yes, it feels lighter, spongy...porous.

I don't know why drying times would differ, unless the wood is that damp to start.

 

[DaveK]

I've learned a lot from this thread ... unfortunately I learned that I have a spalted fence

Dave

 

[AHilton]

Can I help?

Hello all,

I'm the owner of the website link that Showboat posted above concerning the Fungus Amongus article. I tried to keep that article as short and generalized as possible. Unfortunately, that leaves out a whole lot of details and explainations.

If anyone has specific questions about spalting, spalted wood, figure, grain or just any wood in general, I'd be happy to try to answer them. Our family business is (and has been for at least 4 generations before me) wood and related fields. We commercially spalt some species of wood for various companies and I am a professional woodturner myself.

I'm no expert on cue-making though. I've made a few dozen over the years but it's not my specialty.

- Andrew Hilton
Hilton Handcraft of the Ozarks

 

[Cuedog]

AHilton

Andrew...you have a PM.

Gene

 

[alstl]

Hello all,

I'm the owner of the website link that Showboat posted above concerning the Fungus Amongus article. I tried to keep that article as short and generalized as possible. Unfortunately, that leaves out a whole lot of details and explainations.

If anyone has specific questions about spalting, spalted wood, figure, grain or just any wood in general, I'd be happy to try to answer them. Our family business is (and has been for at least 4 generations before me) wood and related fields. We commercially spalt some species of wood for various companies and I am a professional woodturner myself.

I'm no expert on cue-making though. I've made a few dozen over the years but it's not my specialty.

- Andrew Hilton
Hilton Handcraft of the Ozarks

I will be in your neck of the woods in a couple weeks to see Loretta Lynn at Branson.

 

[AHilton]

Cuedog:

I assume you mean the timestamp on that message of mine? Yep. I have no idea why that happened. We'll see what this message gives.

Alstl:

I hear that Loretta Lynn does a good show. If you get the time, get in touch with us while you're in the area. We're an hour and a half northwest of Branson.

 

[Chris]

Cuedog:

I assume you mean the timestamp on that message of mine? Yep. I have no idea why that happened. We'll see what this message gives.

I think he means private message. Look at the top of the page, and about 1/3 way down your screen on the left it should say "Welcome AHilton," "you last visited: _____" and have a link to "Private Messages."