If your opponent tries to get your attention to say you are on 2 fouls, or he wants to call a ref or someone to watch a shot or call a time out, he won't have to jump up and down in front of you waiving to make sure you see him.
Why music players are banned in most tourneys?
- Thread starter Espartaco_7
- Start date
Please ship it to me, PM sent with address....:grin-square:
Banks
Banned
Concealing a "tell" is different, though. You're not actively blocking out your opponent.
Same thing in my opinion. I played a set awhile back with a guy wearing headphones. It annoyed me a bit but no biggy. I was just trying to make analogy to a different game.
B.Carson:
Actually, no (on the hypocritical thing, that is). Let me explain. I used to run the 8-ball leagues at the now-defunct Danbury, CT branch of the Boston Billiards franchise. Believe me, I've seen it all. One particular problem we had, was this very topic of earsets and music players. It's bad enough that the opponent is openly showing you disrespect by not wanting to "be in your company." It's quite another when you're trying to get that opponent's attention when he's bouncing and jiving to the beat, and even signing in mid-air at some of the lyrics he must be listening to. We ultimately had to BAN the use of any listening device -- including Bluetooth phone earsets -- from use when a match is under way. Yes, we had that situation, too -- where coaching was covertly being performed through Bluetooth. Now keep in mind this was prior to the introduction of cell phones that look like music players (the Danbury branch of Boston Billiards was shutdown in January 2009). I can only imagine the huge opportunity that exists for covert "coaching" that can be done through a cell phone that "looks like" a music player -- as another poster mentioned.
What I was trying to tell you -- albeit in a rather razor-sharp way -- was that playing a two-person game that requires communication, but yet you want to shut that opponent out by wearing earsets / music player (as if you're practicing on your own), is extremely disrespectful. Honestly, it surprised me that you wanted (needed?) this explained, but I apologize for my obtuseness.
What seems to be clear, though, is that courtesy doesn't fall under the realm of "common sense." Different folks (and different eras -- this actually seems to pinpoint the problem) have different ideas of what's "acceptable behavior" during a match.
The fact that opponents may not actively talk to each other continuously during the match is not an invitation to don a music player. Nor is it considered acceptable to offer the excuse of "well, if I'm not listenin' to my tunes, I won't play my best." For that latter one now tells the opponent that you have a built-in excuse *no matter what* the outcome of the match is. If the player that wants to don a music player isn't allowed to, he/she will say, "well, there you go -- that's why I lost -- I can't play without my tunes." If the player that wants to don the music player is allowed to, if he/she wins, they point to the music and say he/she was listening to a jammin' tune. The opponent loses that argument either way.
Many of the well-known 9-/10-ball tours (e.g. Joss, TriState, Predator) do not allow music players for this reason.
And, if we throw league into the picture, the picture takes on a new hue -- that player in music la-la land is nearly unreachable by his/her own teammates, unless those teammates get up and approach the table or otherwise perform some outlandish sharking movement to catch the player's attention.
Finally, the excuse of wanting to don a music player to have something else to listen to besides the house music (or jukebox, etc.) doesn't carry weight in the places I've seen. How in the world can you hear your "tunes" through those little earbuds when there's a loud jukebox booming house music all around you? Unless you're trying to mesh your tunes with the booming house music to create a sort of "white noise" that's better to listen to, the answer is you can't.
-Sean
Banks
Banned
Yeah, that's pretty much what people have been trying to say.. take off the headphones and focus on the game.
First, thanks for realizing you were a little harsh in your response and giving me a full explanation.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the subject. I sometimes use earbuds and many others use them in the tournys I play in. I have never been asked not to use them and it has never been an issue. I always remain alert to what is going on and will remove them pretty quickly when they are talking. That is unless I'm shooting then they should be quiet anyway.
I'm personally against the use of headphones mostly because I agree it is disrespectful to the game and to the opponent. I can also see the point about coaching but don't play many tournaments so that's less of an issue for me.
So that's the side I come down on, I don't get bent out of shape about it though. There are some people that I like that I have seen or heard of using headphones. I'm slightly disappointed but I still like them and don't make an issue out of it.
So that's the side I come down on, I don't get bent out of shape about it though. There are some people that I like that I have seen or heard of using headphones. I'm slightly disappointed but I still like them and don't make an issue out of it.
I don't get bent out of shape about it either, although it does frustrate me on a much larger level than a stupid set of headphones.
It's the general decay of our societies moral fiber. Its the fact that what was once common courtesy is now nonexistent and as exemplified by these very posts, not even understood as such.
Not only this topic but a hundred other examples of this exist today. Any one of them seem insignificant on their own merit, but as a whole they are shameful and frustrating to see.
Its everything from the pants hanging off your ass, to pulling up to a neighbors house in your car blaring music and parking the wrong way on the street and beeping your horn to call your friend out.
Its everything from not granting way in a shopping mall for a mother and her children to pass your path as you both walk in different directions by each other and not give it even inkling of thought, to loud swearing conversations in front of parents with their children in public places.
Its everything from slowing your walking pace in a crosswalk as you stop traffic while you walk across the street, to yapping on the cell phone while you drive and cut off another driver as you indifferently drive along.
Its everything from giving a 10 year old an iPhone account, to an 8 O'clock bedtime for young kids, rather than irresponsibly allowing them to stay up till 10 or 11 watching garbage sex or violence filled television shows.
I can certainly go on and on, but ironically there is no point to doing so since these lost courtesies are multiple generations past now and most don't even know what the hell I'm talking about.
Its the frustration of thinking what the continued degradation of our society will look like in the next 20 years.
They don't get it cause they can't get it. It's no longer there to be gotten.
Its not just the headphones.
It's the general decay of our societies moral fiber. Its the fact that what was once common courtesy is now nonexistent and as exemplified by these very posts, not even understood as such.
Not only this topic but a hundred other examples of this exist today. Any one of them seem insignificant on their own merit, but as a whole they are shameful and frustrating to see.
Its everything from the pants hanging off your ass, to pulling up to a neighbors house in your car blaring music and parking the wrong way on the street and beeping your horn to call your friend out.
Its everything from not granting way in a shopping mall for a mother and her children to pass your path as you both walk in different directions by each other and not give it even inkling of thought, to loud swearing conversations in front of parents with their children in public places.
Its everything from slowing your walking pace in a crosswalk as you stop traffic while you walk across the street, to yapping on the cell phone while you drive and cut off another driver as you indifferently drive along.
Its everything from giving a 10 year old an iPhone account, to an 8 O'clock bedtime for young kids, rather than irresponsibly allowing them to stay up till 10 or 11 watching garbage sex or violence filled television shows.
I can certainly go on and on, but ironically there is no point to doing so since these lost courtesies are multiple generations past now and most don't even know what the hell I'm talking about.
Its the frustration of thinking what the continued degradation of our society will look like in the next 20 years.
They don't get it cause they can't get it. It's no longer there to be gotten.
Its not just the headphones.
Very good point.
"Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use."
—Emily Post
—Emily Post
http://www.emilypost.com/
Jeff Livingston
Because their little shark moves won't work if you can't hear them. If you're talking to your opponent for anything other reason than calling a foul or informing that they are on two you are sharking.
So, if you're talking to your opponent like "standing in a grocery store line" you are sharking. This is a perfect example of why i wear an Ipod.
Interesting discussion ... I appreciate all the replies even though this was not my thread (sorry OP :frown
. I had no idea that using headphones was considered such bad form by some. I surely do not think it's part of the "degradation of our moral fiber" as some have eluded to.
I will ask the other player before the match if they mind from now on. If they frown upon it then I wont use them. If they end up being rude and talk the entire time I'm shooting then Ill put them on and they can deal with it.
. I had no idea that using headphones was considered such bad form by some. I surely do not think it's part of the "degradation of our moral fiber" as some have eluded to.I will ask the other player before the match if they mind from now on. If they frown upon it then I wont use them. If they end up being rude and talk the entire time I'm shooting then Ill put them on and they can deal with it.
If I was in a tournament and some goofball walked up with headphones in I'd go ahead and forfeit the match. Total disrespect for your opponent. I know that if I have something to say that I'd blow a gasket the first time I said something and then he replied "what?" as he was digging out his phones or turning it down so he could hear me. Headphones, cellphones etc... There is no room in a pool hall for them....if you're at the table. "Background noise disturbs me". Man up and quit your crying, Sally, your garter is showing. If something like music in the background disturbs you because it's not your type of music then you probably shouldn't be playing in the first place. Noise and pool halls go together. It's been like that for a long time.
For the record, yes, I wish it was quieter, but it is what it is. I surely don't miss shots because a frickin' Duran Duran song came on in the background.
MULLY
For the record, yes, I wish it was quieter, but it is what it is. I surely don't miss shots because a frickin' Duran Duran song came on in the background.
MULLY
Interesting discussion ... I appreciate all the replies even though this was not my thread (sorry OP :frown
(snip).
Yes, it IS part of the degradation of our moral fiber. Really.
Manners are necessary to a civil, peaceful society. Extremely necessary.
Think about what manners really convey.
Here's an example of such modern tech being damaging to real Persons... At league, I'm running out the table, really into the game. I make a great shot, a really great shot that will allow me to finish the runout. man, it felt good! I happen to look at my teammates and I see what they thought of that shot (I'm the old fart but better player) and what is it I see? Four guys looking down at their phones with their thumbs typing away, oblivious to their physical environment.
Just a pool shot? No, it is more than that. It is a willful disregard for the Persons in one's physical environment as if those Persons are less valuable than a phone. That behavior harms those who have few manners more than it does the dissed. Opportunities lost, reps lost, etc. It all ties together.
Rant over.
Jeff Livingston
Your example has nothing to do with headphones or the phones themselves. The actions you describe are the due to the peoples disinterest. If it were not the phones they would be off playing beer pong or something. THEY were not interested in your match. I watch every shot and say "good shot" when it applies with or without headphones.
You don't have to yell at me or jump up and down to get my attention. I pay attention and if you attempt to speak to me I will remove a bud if necessary and listen.
When will you guys get it? A person will be oblivious to you by choice so don't blame a device
Next
B.Carson:
Thank you for receiving my previous post well -- on the good terms that it was meant. To help elaborate on what chefjeff and 3andstop were getting at, if you don't mind, I'll take the opportunity to reply to your reply to cheffjeff.
I have to agree with both 3andstop and cheffjeff. *Something* happened along the way where certain "obvious" courtesies are no longer considered obvious by a subsequent generation.
You say not to blame the device, and I heartily agree. However, these folks aren't blaming the device. They are blaming the people using them at the most inappropriate time. The blame is on the *people*, not the device. And as 3andstop mentions, it goes far deeper than "just a set of earbuds." It is the cranium that those earbuds are installed on.
Let's take a different example, to see if I can help better explain the point. Dress codes in certain establishments -- whether that establishment be a pool hall, restaurant, club, what-have-you. You may *say* that the dress code is extreme, that the person "having to put on" that particular formal means of clothing doesn't normally do so in everyday life. "A dirtbag wearing a tuxedo is still a dirtbag, so why even bother with enforcing a dress code upon him?" That's the point you're trying to get across in this earbud business -- that you want to wear your earbuds, and this overrides any perceived courtesy issues, so why the big deal? "My wants are my wants, and screw what everyone else thinks."
This is the larger issue the aforementioned folks were getting at. That *something* has decayed or got lost from one generation to the next. And it's just not that a certain generation has to be "taught" what courtesy is, but that it's not *obvious* it's a courtesy that is the core issue. Pretty soon, holding doors open for people will, in time, drop off the radar, and a certain generation won't realize it to be "obvious" that it's courteous to hold the door open for someone.
Does that help explain it?
-Sean
P.S.: network security, eh? CISSP / SANS GIAC / CCIE + Security (written) here.
