why not steel instead of slate?

S

smashmouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Diamond vs Brunswick thread has peaked my curiosity on this issue, steel has a far greater density, can be machined just as easily, and would eliminate the expensive import process

They've already started making table frames from steel so why not the playing surface?
 
smashmouth said:
The Diamond vs Brunswick thread has peaked my curiosity on this issue, steel has a far greater density, can be machined just as easily, and would eliminate the expensive import process

They've already started making table frames from steel so why not the playing surface?
Click to expand...

Why not plastic? Somebody beam down Scotty!

Yeah, once we reduce the cost of pool tables, pool popularity is going to sky rocket.
 
smashmouth said:
The Diamond vs Brunswick thread has peaked my curiosity on this issue, steel has a far greater density, can be machined just as easily, and would eliminate the expensive import process

They've already started making table frames from steel so why not the playing surface?
Click to expand...

Thick sheet steel is not real cheap. but I am sure you could make an acceptable table out of it.
However, by the time it was all said and done ,and it was high enough in nickel not to rust and pit,and thick enough to be rigid. it would probably cost a heck of lot more than slate does.

Jayman.
 
whitewolf said:
Why not plastic? Somebody beam down Scotty!

Yeah, once we reduce the cost of pool tables, pool popularity is going to sky rocket.
Click to expand...

This reply doesn't really make much sense to me... his question didn't infer that using solid steel instead of slate would sacrifice quality. He was simply asking that if steel is just as heavy, dense, cheaper, and could be machined to the most exacting tolerances, then why couldn't it be used instead of importing slate. Seems like a valid question to me but I don't know much about the characteristics of steel and/or slate in terms of playability....
 
From a physics standpoint, a few things come to mind. First is the compressibility of slate versus that of steel. That is, how much pressure is required to compress the materials a certain amount. Although I'm sure we're dealing in negligible amounts, that brought me to my second thought.

EDIT: Thoughts on tolerances to sudden shock. Fractures and the like. This is likely to be another point that could be considered. This would deal with impulses.

Coefficient of restitution. This is the coefficient that is used to determine final velocities given an elastic collision, such as between two billiard balls, or a ball and the table surface. The cloth plays as a damper between the two materials, so the amounts are likely negligible again due to a relative incompressibility of the two solid materials.

Thermal conductivity. The temperature of the table matters, and would a steel playing surface make much of a difference? I can't comment to thoroughly on this, but I'd like to know some concrete data on this.

I don't know what I'm trying to get at here, but this is the general thought process that came to mind when I was weighing the options.
 
Maybe steel changes temperature too fast and it affects the way the table plays. Just a guess.
 
I wonder if the biggest factor between the two is how each would handle moisture... in that I could see moisture on a steel table not being absorbed as it would into a slate bed... if that even happens I'm not sure. I'd like to see heated beds on every table to ensure some soft of consistency though...
 
Someone should email a structural steel association and a company that mines slate and ask them.

I'm too lazy.
 
negligible amounts is my guess also, I mean we're talking about thick steel here, stationary, that will not be supporting anything, whose sole job is to just stay put and remain flat in a more than likely temperature controlled environment

can it be machined to the same tolerances as slate? I guess that would be the first question
 
this could possibly lead to an all steel based table helds my magnets no?

they use steel backed cushions in Europe, in theory could you not attach frame/bed/rails in that manner?
 
I would think the large temperature coefficient of expansion of steel would cause the playing dimensions of the table to change too much.
 
Reactivity of the ball is the issue. Do some research on elastic modulus. I suspect that the resonant frequency also would affect the balls. Other materials tried in the past have made the balls less "lively", especially on the break.
 
I've considered this, but the idea would be not to subject it to temperature extremes, even so, how much would thick steel expand?

throw in some steel in the balls, a power supply, and you have automatic racking too!

this sounds wacky but I say it can work
 
pooltableproCP said:
Reactivity of the ball is the issue. Do some research on elastic modulus. I suspect that the resonant frequency also would affect the balls. Other materials tried in the past have made the balls less "lively", especially on the break.
Click to expand...

would the cloth not negate this factor to a large extent?
 
pooltableproCP said:
Reactivity of the ball is the issue. Do some research on elastic modulus. I suspect that the resonant frequency also would affect the balls. Other materials tried in the past have made the balls less "lively", especially on the break.
Click to expand...

Really? That's interesting especially since the balls roll on top of the cloth and never actually touch what's underneath...
 
1/2 inch thick steel alloy will run about $40 a square foot. For a 9 foot table you would need about 36 square feet. It would be very expensive!
Steve
 
As a table mechanic, I would surely hate to have to move a table knowing it had a steel bed. Not sure how you could seal the seams on a three piece steel bed and a one piece would be nearly impossible to move. I think the temperature factor would matter also, most metals expand the warmer they get so bees wax may not suffice. JMO.

Southpaw
 
Southpaw said:
As a table mechanic, I would surely hate to have to move a table knowing it had a steel bed. Not sure how you could seal the seams on a three piece steel bed and a one piece would be nearly impossible to move. I think the temperature factor would matter also, most metals expand the warmer they get so bees wax may not suffice. JMO.

Southpaw
Click to expand...
No seams -- make it tongue-in-groove and clamp the sections together with flanges. If it's machined well enough, there would be no visible joint. Some carom tables (with 2-inch slates) are machined straight and sharp enough that you don't use any kind of seam sealer.

For thermal expansion, carbon steel is about 6PPM/degF, so in a 20-degree temperature change, your 100-inch playing surface would become 100.012 inches. I think that's not enough to worry about. (I think slate is about a factor of 10 more stable.)

I've heard that metal tables tend to retain moisture.

I bet a metal table would be noisy.
 
Steel

Bob Jewett said:
No seams -- make it tongue-in-groove and clamp the sections together with flanges. If it's machined well enough, there would be no visible joint. Some carom tables (with 2-inch slates) are machined straight and sharp enough that you don't use any kind of seam sealer.

For thermal expansion, carbon steel is about 6PPM/degF, so in a 20-degree temperature change, your 100-inch playing surface would become 100.012 inches. I think that's not enough to worry about. (I think slate is about a factor of 10 more stable.)

I've heard that metal tables tend to retain moisture.

I bet a metal table would be noisy.
Click to expand...

The metal table will definitely have a different sound, and I am sure that it would have to be plated to inhibit rust. It would be a good experiment for someone,(or table manufacturer) to try. I seriously doubt that there is a cost justification since the price of steel is high. I just wonder about the playability.
 
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