Why Now (NACPBA & IPT Action Challenge)

[Flettir]

Hello everyone, I will apologize in advance for the length of this post (editorial).

To begin with I have been to the official web sites for both of these organizations and I have been reading what is on this and other forums about the NACPBA. I won?t go into my opinion of the IPT and what damage it did to men?s profession pool.

My question is why the push to cleanup and organize men?s profession pool.

I have found that when you can figure how to make money at something you can get backers for it. So how are they going to make money on this. It can?t be from TV and commercials because the IPT tried that and there is just not a market for it in the USA right now.

Not only that this is for BIG money. I would consider 22 million a year to be big money. So where does this kind of money come from? Usually it comes from huge corporations for advertizing.

Now why would huge corporations want to start advertizing in pool.

While reading a few things struck a chord with me and when put together they don?t look all that far off the mark, or pocket in this case.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jaden: I keep hearing this and I'm kind of flabbergasted. Look if 22 million dollars is set up in a varifiably escrowed account for the payouts and the tournament formats are what they claim with 20 tournaments in a year, this tour is all the professional elite would need. It's a commitment with dividends. I can actually see where this would be going. If the majority of the top professionals DO sign on then that would give this new tour the levarage against the other tours and what not to actually BECOME the definitve authority for professional pool. It's hard, without a track record, to know whether or not that would be a good thing or a bad thing, but with the current status of pool, it can't be too bad a thing after what the IPT has already done.

What he said did make sense, they would become the definitve authority for men?s professional pool.

There was also a lot of talk about the drug testing that the site called for.

Quote: Originally Posted by cueandcushion
I would like to see a list of current pros that wont gamble at an event, wont drink, can pass a hair follicle drug test, volunteer on a regular basis, always dress really well, behave well.

To which Blackjack posted this Quote:
Tommy Kennedy
David Sapolis
Steve Lillis
Mike Massey
George and Jeanette (Lee) Breedlove
Robin Dodson
Belinda Calhoun
... I bet if I paid Scotty Townsend a few bucks he wouldn't drink at an event, but he'd probably get plastered afterwards... With him, the cussing is another story, though. lol
The drug testing is a requirement for the IOC (International Olympic Committee) as it is part of the their anti-doping policy.

The last line there got a lot of random thought to drop into place for me.

The IOC (International Olympic Committee), if I am not mistaken some of the European and Asian players practice (and live) at their country?s national Olympic training facility. As far as I know billiards is not an Olympic sport, yet. But lets say that in the foreseeable future it is to become an Olympic sport. Olympics already has basketball, hockey, they even have flag waving on poles (why?). Why not a sport that is already played in almost every country in the world.

Quote from the NACPBA web site: Should the goal of changing the image of the game and evolving the game into a publicly accepted and recognized sport we will disband after three years. That is our mandate. That is our goal. That is our deadline. Should the road to this goal be seen as being achieved ether will be continued funding for an additional 7 years. At that time it is our hope that the NACPBA will be firmly established and self-sustaining.

Lets explore this avenue some more. On the NACPBA web site it said it would try this for 3 years and then if it was working it would extend for another 7 years. Ok, next years is the Olympics and 2 years after that they will be announcing the new events for the following Olympics, that is about 3 years. Ok so it is announced as an added sport. They will extend for 7 years, that would take them to 1 year after the next 2 Olympics to see if it is working.

Now back to the money. To play with them you have to sign up and agree to their conditions, including who can be you sponsor. Lets say we do go to the Olympics and have a gold medalist. Just for the sake of argument, it is Shane, who is on a roll this year, as the gold medalist. So now they want him on the box of Wheaties Breakfast of Champions. A picture and cover story for Sports Illustrated, etc, etc, etc. And who is going to get a cut of this money, the people who hold the sponsorship strings.

I am sure that as the things I read resonated and brought together thoughts for me, this may do the same for some of you on the board. If you have evidence of which I am totally lacking or can totally debunk my thoughts, that is ok. This is just what came together for me while I was reading.

 

[Scott Lee]

Flettir...I enjoyed reading your post. You make some good observations, and also point out some nice 'pipe dreams'. First...pool will not become an Olympic sport anytime soon. I'm certainly in favor of it, but it's not going to happen. Why? The IOC already has a full contingent of events, for both the summer and winter games. To add new sports, others must be dropped. Billiards is among a huge list of sports trying to get added to the Olympic curriculum. Unfortunately it is often political muscle (and $$$) that decide which sports will get added, in the event that something is dropped. Our sport does not have money or 'clout' behind it, at the IOC level. Sports are occasionally dropped, but not often...so the wait list is very long indeed.

It seems that the goal of the NACPBA is the "change the image" of pool. That is a lofty goal, and one that I wholeheartedly endorse and support. It would appear that this organization is prepared to "invest" huge sums of money towards this effort. Their 'stipulations' seem pretty reasonable to me. I've been trying to do my small part myself (to change the image), in my own way, for decades. When I 'perform' an exhibition I'm always dressed in a coat and tie, with shined dress shoes. That's in appreciation of my audience, and the people who paid me to be there. I am a professional...I dress and act like a professional...and I am paid like a professional. Pretty simple formula if you ask me.

It remains to be seen whether or not this is a 'real deal', or another scam like the IPT was. I spoke with Blackjack the other day, about Trudeau's new 'challenge match' venture...and he said he thought the concept was valid...although remains aloof at the probability of it's potential success, especially with the last IPT fiasco, which has still not been paid in full. I guess we'll know 'the truth' in a couple of months. Either the NACPBA is an honest gig, or it isn't! Time will tell...I, for one, hope it is!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[Flettir]

Either the NACPBA is an honest gig, or it isn't! Time will tell...I, for one, hope it is!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Thank You for the response, like I said in the post. If you know something please share. Thank You for what you already know about the Olympics, and there goes another nice idea, out the window. Even though I do think billiards should be there.

I also whole heartedly agree with your final thought and I, for another, hope it is!

 

[juegabillar]

Some info about Billiards and the IOC

The IOC (International Olympic Committee), if I am not mistaken some of the European and Asian players practice (and live) at their country?s national Olympic training facility. As far as I know billiards is not an Olympic sport, yet. But lets say that in the foreseeable future it is to become an Olympic sport. Olympics already has basketball, hockey, they even have flag waving on poles (why?). Why not a sport that is already played in almost every country in the world.

Here is some info about Billiards and the IOC taken from WPA website"

Ever since the 1950?s many attempts had been made in order for Billiards to possibly achieve Olympic recognition, but to no avail. Not only did Billiards have difficulties to comply with the definition of Sports that was valid at that point in time, but the International Olympic Committee (IOC) also demanded that there must be only one organisation representing all Billiards Sports. In order to fulfil the IOC?s condition, the three main Billiard divisions (Carom, Pool and Snooker) convened together in August of 1990 at a historic meeting in Bristol, England, where it was decided between them to form the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS) ? an umbrella organisation encompassing all kinds of Billiards. The following eighteen months was spent on developing a set of by-laws enabling the various divisions to work closely together, whilst still maintaining their independence. The inaugural General Assembly of the WCBS was held in Lausanne, Switzerland January 1992. A Board consisting of nine delegates was elected, three representatives from each of the founding members, Union Mondiale de Billard (UMB ? Carom), World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA ?Pool) and World Snooker Federation (WSF ? Snooker), and soon after the work to a possible IOC recognition commenced.

The applications for membership with the General Association of International Sports Federations (GAISF) and for the gaining of recognition of the IOC were submitted in 1992, and in October 1993 the WCBS were, for the first time invited as observers to the GAISF Congress & General Assembly in Lahti, Finland. However, the WCBS application failed to make it to the agenda of the AGM, and therefore the two WCBS representatives at this meeting, Mr. Andre Gagnaux and Mr. Jorgen Sandman were confined to listen and learn. In October of 1994, when the GAISF AGM took place in Monte Carlo, again Mr. Gagnaux and Mr. Sandman were invited as observers, but this time the WCBS application was on the agenda. At the time this point was to be discussed, Mr. Gagnaux and Mr. Sandman were asked to leave the room, a GAISF rule in order to allow discussion between the representatives on member IF?s. After what had seemed an eternity, the two WCBS representatives were invited back to the meeting and were told by the GAISF President, Dr. Un-Young Kim, that the AGM had decided to postpone any decision awaiting ?a more defined definition of Sports?.

WCBS applied for recognition by IOC

Meanwhile, the IOC had responded to the application for recognition by stating that the WCBS was too new as an umbrella body for Billiard Sports, and therefore they could expect to be waiting for another few years. The IOC also recommended to the WCBS to apply for membership of the GAISF ? ?whilst this is not a prerequisite, the IOC would see favourably on a WCBS membership with the GAISF?. In October of 1995, the GAISF Congress and General Assembly were held in Seoul, Korea and again the WCBS were invited as observers. Three WCBS representatives attended, Mr. Nigel Oldfield, Mr. Jorgen Sandman and Mr. Massimino Del Prete. They were busy distributing ?Right on Cue?, a brochure which had been developed for the purpose of informing the delegates at the AGM about the WCBS, and also hosted a cocktail party for around 500 attending officials. Whether it was the brochure and/or the cocktail reception that did the job, or if it was due to the IOC altered definition of Sports, we cannot be sure, but as of this AGM, the WCBS had finally become a member of the GAISF.

In July 1996, the IOC decided to grant the WCBS provisional recognition for two years, and in September of the same year the WCBS became a member of the Association of Recognised International Sports Federations (ARISF). An application for membership with the International World Games Association (IWGA) was also filed shortly afterwards. At the 1997 IWGA AGM it was decided that the WCBS would become a member of them as of January 1, 1998. The IWGA organises every four years the World Games, and even though the WCBS would now be a member, this did not automatically warrant participation at these Games. However, as new members of the IWGA, the WCBS did meet with the organising committees for the 2001 Akita World Games, and also submitted its application for participation with the IWGA.

IOC granted a the WCBS its outright recognition

On February 5, 1998, the IOC granted a the WCBS its outright recognition, and by that, it was now clear once and for all, that Billiard Sports were to be treated as one sport among others. Later on in the year the IWGA decided to accept the inclusion of Billiard Sports into the program of the 2001 Akita World Games, and four medals are to be competed for according to the following:

Carom
16 men to compete in a single elimination format, (3-cushion)

Pool
16 men & 16 women to compete in separate single elimination formats

Snooker
16 men to compete in a single elimination format, (Snooker)

The 1999 GAISF AGM decided to accept the WCBS as full members, and by that the WCBS must be deemed to have accomplished a great deal in its seven short years of existence. The WCBS will continue its efforts in order to also one day be accepted for participation in the Olympic Games, a dream now perhaps not that far from reality, but ten years earlier must have seemed an impossibility.

Jean Graus UMB President Exco Member
W. Y. Chin WSF General Secretary Exco Member
Jorgen Sandman WPA Treasurer Exco Member
Yung-Hui Tu WPA Vice President
Sindhu Pulsirivong WSF Vice President
Wolfgang Rittmann UMB PR Manager
Ian Anderson WPA Board Member
Jason Ferguson WSF Sports Director
Jean Claude Dupont UMB Vice Sports Director

Andre Gagnaux (UMB), who must be credited very much that the WCBS was at all founded, became the first President back in 1992, an office he carried until 1996. He took ill during the second half of 1995, at which time he passed on his immediate tasks to Jorgen Sandman who took over as President in January 1996, just one month before Mr. Gagnaux passed away. Mr. Pulsirivong replaced Mr. Sandman as President in December 1998, and in October 2000 Mr. Graus was elected. The office of President is passed around on a rotating order, so that all three divisions will take their turn at heading the organisation.

 

[our_auctionguy]

Venture Capitalism Royale

I was extremely skeptical of the validity of this NACPBA endeavor being on the up & up, but now after some research, I have done an about face and think it is legitimately funded and seriously in the planning phase.

Now, I ask myself why are they venturing into this sport in such a grandiose way? It seems a little over the top paying first place of $200K for each tournament winner. So, does that mean one or more of the top players is very likely to become a multi-millionaire his first year? History has so far shown the top is often the repeatable top. I may be crazy, but IMO $500K total per event would have sufficed as exhorbitant to put this on the map and leave some major breathing room and life expectancy if income expectations are not met in a timely fashion.

What is the true motive behind NACPBA? It isn't philanthropy. I think they are experimenting with the ultimate goal of making billiards and NACPBA sort of the PGA of Winter sports all the while trying to draw similar financially strong promotional advertisers, in both local and national markets. It has been pointed out by others that the billiards industry alone can't supply the advertising budget and promotional dollars to support them providing payouts at these levels.

So, who can? I can't see much similarity between the PGA fan and the Billiards fan. I also can't see the PGA fan converting. I do know a lot of avid pool players also play golf. But I don't believe the reverse analogy holds true. So, PGA advertisers on the upper end of the consumer price scale like Mercedes, BMW, and the likes aren't likely to jump on board. I think it is fair to assume from the broadcast radio interview that the television market is the ultimate media goal here. So how do you get the big money advertisers and time slots for mass audience appeal?

My only guess would be Sundays before the pre-game show of the weekly NFL game. If that could be secured, they could have a whole slew of multi-national companies that might want to be seen before the game because they couldn't buy any time slots during the pre-game or game. Regular game advertisers like Budweiser, etc also might want to semi-dominate that time slot as well to keep up their image with the sports bar crowd who will be waiting for the big game. Strictly positive thinking on my part. So now, when someone goes to check for the pre-game, they might get drawn into watching the finals of the weekly NACPBA tournament. If I were shelling out $1million a week+, I would definitely want some strong advertising dollars coming my way and though I know jack squat about advertising and television time slots, this would be a plausible goal. Strictly brainstorming.

You don't want any of what I smoke, it has the Surgeon General's warning on the pack.