Why only 4 veneers?

[snipershot]

I see a ton of cues that are 4 point 4 veneer. Ive only seen a few 5 veneer cues, and I dont believe Ive ever seen a 6 veneer cue. Why not? is it that much more difficult to do? Im asking because with any luck, Ill be cutting my own points in the next few weeks, and Ive been thinking about different veneers and point wood and so on.

Joe

 

[Mc2]

I see a ton of cues that are 4 point 4 veneer. Ive only seen a few 5 veneer cues, and I dont believe Ive ever seen a 6 veneer cue. Why not? is it that much more difficult to do? Im asking because with any luck, Ill be cutting my own points in the next few weeks, and Ive been thinking about different veneers and point wood and so on.

Joe

Joe, when talking about mitered veneers, less is harder to do. I believe that 4 pint and 4 veneer stuck has to do with the titlist cues that where made. The more veneers you add, the smaller your point wood will end up. Oh and 4 is the easiest number to index. As a small side effect, you can directly determine how wide a gap you will have between points to how deep you cut. On a 4 point splice, if you cut to say .075" from center, then your gap will be twice that at .150".

Of course I could just be full of you know what.

LOL, Jim.

 

[tsp&b]

Here's one

Here's one.

 

[desi2960]

tsp&b

i would like to see that cue made with the veneer colors reversed, i think the points would stand out more.
just my way of thinking, it is a great looking cue very nice work

 

[rhncue]

i would like to see that cue made with the veneer colors reversed, i think the points would stand out more.
just my way of thinking, it is a great looking cue very nice work

I agree. That is why most light colored cues have a dark, outer veneer and dark colored forearms have a light colored veneer on the outside so as to outline the point stack. That is also a great example of what occurs to the solid point wood when five points are used. When more than 4 veneers are going to be used it is best to use thin veneer. I would like to try using paper veneers so as to out line each individual veneer but I've got over a 1000.00 worth of veneer in stock that I will never get all used in my life time so I hesitate tying up more money.

There is so many newer cue makers, henceforth, so many trying to think outside of the box to come up with something new and unique. Some times it works and some times is does not. I like bright colored veneers but I do feel they need a outline so as to make them not become one in the same with the forearm wood.

It has also already been stated by MC2, I believe, that the fewer the veneers the tougher it is to get a good, 90 degree mitered veneer and this is an absolutely true statement in my experience.


Dick

 

[scdiveteam]

There is so many newer cue makers, henceforth, so many trying to think outside of the box to come up with something new and unique. Some times it works and some times is does not. I like bright colored veneers but I do feel they need a outline so as to make them not become one in the same with the forearm wood.
Dick

Hi,

That is why there are classics in any serious discipline or endeavor. But experimentation is also good because it makes you think and gain new experience.

Creativity is not a function of veneer colors on a cue because everything that can be done has been done, IMO. Getting your point work to a result that is repeatable in all details is the area to sweat the blood of maximum effort each and every time. Therein lies the art of points, IMO.

Rick

 

[ELBeau]

Hi,

That is why there are classics in any serious discipline or endeavor. But experimentation is also good because it makes you think and gain new experience.

Creativity is not a function of veneer colors on a cue because everything that can be done has been done, IMO. Getting your point work to a result that is repeatable in all details is the area to sweat the blood of maximum effort each and every time. Therein lies the art of points, IMO.

Rick

Hi Rick- hope you're doing well. You've certainly been busy in your shop!
While I agree that veneer colors alone aren't a factor for creativity, repeatable points are not a function of creativity, either. Repeatable points with clean glue lines are a function of craftsmanship.
I don't believe that everything that can be done has been done in regards to veneer colors and combinations. For example, while someone may well have used wild veneer colors in their cues before Zinzola, I associate him with bringing that to the mainstream as recently as the last few years.
In the last month or so a cuemaker shared some creative veneer work with me that I've never seen before and can't wait until it makes it out to the world.
There will always be guys who hold to the classics and guys who experiment. What's really cool is when one guy does both!

Take care,
~Beau

 

[pdcue]

I see a ton of cues that are 4 point 4 veneer. Ive only seen a few 5 veneer cues, and I dont believe Ive ever seen a 6 veneer cue. Why not? is it that much more difficult to do? Im asking because with any luck, Ill be cutting my own points in the next few weeks, and Ive been thinking about different veneers and point wood and so on.

Joe

4 points with 4 veneers is what most people want.
Likely because, for decades, that was the definition of a custom cue,
unless you knew who Harvey Martin was.

Cues have more or less become fashion statements. We are in one of
those retro periods for cues. Not all that long ago, CNC points were
all the rage and few new cue buyers were open to the 'outdated'
look of a Hoppe.

I somewhat come down with Rick on this one.
Shufling the number of points, veneers, and colors doesn't quite seem
like the most productive use of my time. But, to each his own.

Dale

 

[snipershot]

Thanks for all the input. Im not sure what I will try when I get into cutting points, but it looks like its gonna be fun, lol.

Joe

 

[scdiveteam]

Hi Rick- hope you're doing well. You've certainly been busy in your shop!
While I agree that veneer colors alone aren't a factor for creativity, repeatable points are not a function of creativity, either. Repeatable points with clean glue lines are a function of craftsmanship.
I don't believe that everything that can be done has been done in regards to veneer colors and combinations. For example, while someone may well have used wild veneer colors in their cues before Zinzola, I associate him with bringing that to the mainstream as recently as the last few years.
In the last month or so a cuemaker shared some creative veneer work with me that I've never seen before and can't wait until it makes it out to the world.
There will always be guys who hold to the classics and guys who experiment. What's really cool is when one guy does both!

Take care,
~Beau

Beau,

I take that back about all combo being done should have said most. Tony Z has done some very cool things that are firsts with combos for sure.

I guess we are all lucky to have you as a supplier that has so many color choices for new looks.

Rick

 

[LGSM3]

4 points with 4 veneers is what most people want.Likely because, for decades, that was the definition of a custom cue,
unless you knew who Harvey Martin was.

Cues have more or less become fashion statements. We are in one of
those retro periods for cues. Not all that long ago, CNC points were
all the rage and few new cue buyers were open to the 'outdated'
look of a Hoppe.

I somewhat come down with Rick on this one.
Shufling the number of points, veneers, and colors doesn't quite seem
like the most productive use of my time. But, to each his own.

Dale

Dale, this is by no means a shot at you and certainly just my opinion. In my short amount of time in cue building i have heard that statement "most productive use of my time" all to much. Mostly relative to finances by folks who build cues for a living.

To me, this is a cop out and the safe road, so to speak. There are so many guys who are extremely talented but will never be who they could be because they are taking the safe road. I understand that experimenting is gambling, and alot of guys have families to feed, but they likely should have thought about that before making the plunge into cuemaking.

To sum it up: "i dont have the gentlemans permission to use his name so i wont and there is really no need to as everyone knows who it is" It also addresses both statements above as shown in red.

This guy far and away, has kicked ass 3 years in a row with the PEOPLES CHOICE AWARD. None of the cues were regular old 4 point 4 veneer cues so i would disagree that people prefer that style other than knowing its easily had, and somewhat cost effective. Next, i'm pretty sure that the goal was not to be most productive but to be creative in doing designs which he had not done before, which likely resulted in hours of trial and error/costly time. IMO, this is what it takes to be one of the greats and go down in history.

jmo, for what its worth

 

[pdcue]

Dale, this is by no means a shot at you and certainly just my opinion. In my short amount of time in cue building i have heard that statement "most productive use of my time" all to much. Mostly relative to finances by folks who build cues for a living.

To me, this is a cop out and the safe road, so to speak. There are so many guys who are extremely talented but will never be who they could be because they are taking the safe road. I understand that experimenting is gambling, and alot of guys have families to feed, but they likely should have thought about that before making the plunge into cuemaking.

To sum it up: "i dont have the gentlemans permission to use his name so i wont and there is really no need to as everyone knows who it is" It also addresses both statements above as shown in red.

This guy far and away, has kicked ass 3 years in a row with the PEOPLES CHOICE AWARD. None of the cues were regular old 4 point 4 veneer cues so i would disagree that people prefer that style other than knowing its easily had, and somewhat cost effective. Next, i'm pretty sure that the goal was not to be most productive but to be creative in doing designs which he had not done before, which likely resulted in hours of trial and error/costly time. IMO, this is what it takes to be one of the greats and go down in history.

jmo, for what its worth

Read much??

The OP asked a specific question which I answered based on personal
observation, with a peripheral nod of support to another poster's
opinion on what does and does not constitute "creativity".
Reference to productive-use-of-time was my own typically diplomatic
way of saying 'more veneers ain't more creative'.

I am, after all, well known for my dipolmatic responses.

So you barge in with keyboard guns-a-blazin to hijack this thread and try
to Rosemary Wood it into your own agenda.

The OP asked about why he sees so many cues of a certain type.
Perhaps I missed the part where he asked:
"how do I win the Peoples Choice Award?".

I most certainly missed the part where I said "don't use more veneers,
or waste time pursuing anything else".

Dale(who has said plenty of things that actually did warrent a reprimand)

 

[bbb]

This guy far and away, has kicked ass 3 years in a row with the PEOPLES CHOICE AWARD. None of the cues were regular old 4 point 4 veneer cues so i would disagree that people prefer that style other than knowing its easily had, and somewhat cost effective. Next, i'm pretty sure that the goal was not to be most productive but to be creative in doing designs which he had not done before, which likely resulted in hours of trial and error/costly time. IMO, this is what it takes to be one of the greats and go down in history.

jmo, for what its worth

who wins people choice my guess is the collectors and cue fanatics who vote
maybe not the mainstream pool player
sort of like middle america vs
los angeles or new york city for example

 

[LGSM3]

Read much??

The OP asked a specific question which I answered based on personal
observation, with a peripheral nod of support to another poster's
opinion on what does and does not constitute "creativity".
Reference to productive-use-of-time was my own typically diplomatic
way of saying 'more veneers ain't more creative'.

I am, after all, well known for my dipolmatic responses.

So you barge in with keyboard guns-a-blazin to hijack this thread and try
to Rosemary Wood it into your own agenda.

The OP asked about why he sees so many cues of a certain type.
Perhaps I missed the part where he asked:
"how do I win the Peoples Choice Award?".

I most certainly missed the part where I said "don't use more veneers,
or waste time pursuing anything else".

Dale(who has said plenty of things that actually did warrent a reprimand)

Sure, i read plenty, but if you noticed, i quoted you.
So i try to preface the earlier response, with what was genuinely meant to be my opinion, and not to pick on Dale. "specifically that first part was to head off one of Dales responses where he acts like a little girl" of course you followed through as usual.

Keyboard guns a blazin....really? i was politely stating an opinion

Sorry to hijack the thread....

 

[ELBeau]

Beau,

I take that back about all combo being done should have said most. Tony Z has done some very cool things that are firsts with combos for sure.

I guess we are all lucky to have you as a supplier that has so many color choices for new looks.

Rick

Hey Rick. I'm just happy to have so many customers willing to buy the veneers (yourself included).
Joe, 4 veneers works well in traditional 4 point cues and still shows a good amount of the point wood. 5 veneers can get a little tricky, but Showman pulls it off well.
As an alternative, some guys are using thinner veneers, which allows them to either show more point wood or use additional veneers while still showing a good amount of point wood. Some of Randy Mobley's cues are a good example of this.
Best of luck with the veneers and let me know if I can help. I have some thin veneer available in about half of my most popular colors if you're looking to try more than 4 veneers in a cue.

~Beau

 

[snipershot]

Hey Rick. I'm just happy to have so many customers willing to buy the veneers (yourself included).
Joe, 4 veneers works well in traditional 4 point cues and still shows a good amount of the point wood. 5 veneers can get a little tricky, but Showman pulls it off well.
As an alternative, some guys are using thinner veneers, which allows them to either show more point wood or use additional veneers while still showing a good amount of point wood. Some of Randy Mobley's cues are a good example of this.
Best of luck with the veneers and let me know if I can help. I have some thin veneer available in about half of my most popular colors if you're looking to try more than 4 veneers in a cue.

~Beau

Thanks Beau. When I run out of the stock I got from you, I might have to try some thinner veneers on the next order. Thanks also to everyones responses and pm. Its much appreciated.

Joe

 

[pdcue]

Sure, i read plenty, but if you noticed, i quoted you.
So i try to preface the earlier response, with what was genuinely meant to be my opinion, and not to pick on Dale. "specifically that first part was to head off one of Dales responses where he acts like a little girl" of course you followed through as usual.

Keyboard guns a blazin....really? i was politely stating an opinion

Sorry to hijack the thread....

Of course you quoted me - and you are obviously allergic to the truth.

If you want to gush like a pre-pubescent female over the work of a
prize winning cue maker, that is of no concern to me.

Doing it in a thread that is only marginally related to your opinion
is also, not my concern.

But when you twist my statements that not even someone with the
reading comprehension of a sixth grader could fail to understand, you make
it of concern to me.

If you really wanted to politely express your opinion, why didn't you just
quote the OP - or start your own thread about the abject stupidity
of playing it safe? Then you wouldn't have needed to pretend I had
said what you wished I did.

Dale(who sometimes writes like a slow sixth grader)