Why Pool is devastated by the new Smoking Laws.

Paul Schofield said:
I am clearly saying that this is a demographic issue. Each recreational activity has its own and very different demographic.
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My personal opinion is that THIS had caused pool's decline more than any other factor. Intentionally or not, the sport of pool has molded itself to lower and lower income demographics. That is the root of MANY problems. Why advertisers don't want us. Why pool rooms are in worse neighborhoods than 50 years ago. Bad economies hit lower income people harder meaning less money for pool rooms.
 
2012

It's 2012, I am sorry but where is this just taking effect?

Also, It's 2012 if you still smoke your a f*cking addict.

sorry if I offend, but Phillip Morris is not your Friend!
 
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We moved buildings about 5 months ago, and we decided to change to nonsmoking (although we do have a small smoking room in the back). We only moved 4 doors down from our old building, and compared to the same periods of time last year BUSINESS HAS BEEN MUCH BETTER in the NONSMOKING!!! It is wonderful! Most of our clients like it, even some of the ones who smoke. We have gained many, many new customers as a result. We also let people under 21 in during the day, and we have attracted many families that come in and play pool together.
We didn't go nonsmoking because we were forced to; we just took the risk, and it has been paying off. Plus my clothes smell so much better, and I am having an easier time breathing :o)
 
Hey now, be careful you two. We can't have any actual success stories interfere with the smokers doom and gloom scenarios...
 
cueandcushion said:
Hi Paul. Got your private message asking me about the new Clean Air Act Law in St. Louis that prohibits most public areas from smoking and how it has affected our business.

We have been smoke free about 13 months now.

A short history. Our store is mostly retail and our 17 table billiard parlor accounts for about 9% of our income on the average. Some years more some less. Due to most retail customers being sensitive to smoke we have always had a strong desire to clean and keep smoke damage to a minimum. We admittedly have not always been successful. Smoke will get into everything and everywhere and leave an odor and a stain. Due to my lung problems, and to help reduce the smoke we installed 4 commercial smoke eater machines in the 80s to reduce smoke. We also installed a 36 inch ventilation fan which removes air from the building. Even with all this we had issues with smoke. Many customers would comment about the smoke when coming in the first time. Many customers that were used to bars or places without theses measures would comment how it was barely noticeable. We spent about 10 man hrs every week cleaning trying to keep the level tolerable for non smokers.

Jan 1,2011

This is when the Clean Air Act went into effect. Most smokers called it the Anti Smoker law or something similar. It was titled with some politically correct phrase but I don't have the link for the official title. For two years about 50% of our hardcore smokers informed us they would not be back after the law went into effect so that is what we expected. Before the law took effect we constructed an outdoor area with bench for smokers. We also had warning signage of when it was going to happen. When the ban took effect we saw a change about 30 days into the new year. Our business started growing. The 145 businesses (approximately) in the St. Louis County area that got smoking exemptions became saturated with heavy smokers. This had the effect of pushing out many light smokers and non smokers. Two pool rooms near us went under, both had smoking exemptions and allowed smoking. Our business kept going up. Ladies and couples on dates would stay longer due to not having to worry about smoke odor on their clothes. We have lost about 2 customers that I know of that cannot play pool because of not being able to smoke. I know we currently have added to our regulars many smokers because they have light habits and would rather take a smoke break than play in a room that has TOO much smoke. During the past year I also took up the task of repainting our entire drop ceiling and our walls. I also took 100% of every picture off the walls in the past year and scrubbing the paneling of smoke residue. I think this effort to make our place look better and smell better had a positive effect on the casual player and brought back many players that had given up pool due to the smoke factor. Our air conditioning bills are lower now due to less residue on the coils. Our tables need less cleaning because of nicotine making the rails sticky. I am still working on the room to this day. Still cleaning. Still painting the drop ceiling. I started on this project again this week. I know we are lucky to still be surviving in this bad economy but all I can do is make heart felt efforts to do the right thing and work extra hours hoping the public will take notice and give pool another chance.

Final tally. Our pool business went up about 20% or more since the smoking ban went into effect. Ball park guess. Havent gone over the books yet.
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What an *EXTREMELY* interesting first hand perspective. Here's the thing...you take a proactive approach, seem to really CARE about your business, and put in hard work to make it the best it can be. I think if other room owners took your approach, they would at very least not have some of the problems they claim were because of non-smoking laws.

Thanks for sharing this inspiring story.

KMRUNOUT
 
billiardchick7 said:
We moved buildings about 5 months ago, and we decided to change to nonsmoking (although we do have a small smoking room in the back). We only moved 4 doors down from our old building, and compared to the same periods of time last year BUSINESS HAS BEEN MUCH BETTER in the NONSMOKING!!! It is wonderful! Most of our clients like it, even some of the ones who smoke. We have gained many, many new customers as a result. We also let people under 21 in during the day, and we have attracted many families that come in and play pool together.
We didn't go nonsmoking because we were forced to; we just took the risk, and it has been paying off. Plus my clothes smell so much better, and I am having an easier time breathing :o)
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That wasn't so hard to do, was it? I bet it was scary, though. Glad to hear it!

No guns needed. :cool: If the govt guns do come out and force the whole town/state to go non-smoking (I bet they do), there goes your competitive edge, maybe?

Jeff Livingston
 
billiardchick7 said:
We moved buildings about 5 months ago, and we decided to change to nonsmoking (although we do have a small smoking room in the back). We only moved 4 doors down from our old building, and compared to the same periods of time last year BUSINESS HAS BEEN MUCH BETTER in the NONSMOKING!!! It is wonderful! Most of our clients like it, even some of the ones who smoke. We have gained many, many new customers as a result. We also let people under 21 in during the day, and we have attracted many families that come in and play pool together.
We didn't go nonsmoking because we were forced to; we just took the risk, and it has been paying off. Plus my clothes smell so much better, and I am having an easier time breathing :o)
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Bravo...it is great to see the "demographic" of people smart enough to respect their own health gain success!! This story adds further support against the sad claim that non-smoking laws killed pool rooms.

Thanks a lot for sharing, and for respecting yourself and your clients health and comfort. Odd...marketing to the "higher" demographic, attracting smarter people that earn more money...appealing to their desire to live and continue to live...who would have thought that might work ;-)

KMRUNOUT
 
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chefjeff said:
That wasn't so hard to do, was it? I bet it was scary, though. Glad to hear it!

No guns needed. :cool: If the govt guns do come out and force the whole town/state to go non-smoking (I bet they do), there goes your competitive edge, maybe?

Jeff Livingston
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I agree it ought to be intelligent business decisions, not government mandates, that lead to people scraping the sludge off their businesses and appealing to a more profitable demographic.

KMRUNOUT
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Bravo...it is great to see the "demographic" of people smart enough to respect their own health gain success!! This story adds further support to the sad claim that non-smoking laws killed pool rooms.

Thanks a lot for sharing, and for respecting yourself and your clients health and comfort. Odd...marketing to the "higher" demographic, attracting smarter people that earn more money...appealing to their desire to live and continue to live...who would have thought that might work ;-)

KMRUNOUT
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Yes, it was a bit scary to start with. We weren't really sure how going nonsmoking would affect us. We had a few of our heavy chain smokers complain about it when they found out, so we were nervous, but they all still come in! One guy that came in the old building quite regularly with his wife and is a heavy smoker complained a lot before the move. After the move, him and his wife still come in but they come in even more often and bring their 12 year old daughter in with them during the day now. He came up to me after we moved and said he actually likes this much better. He doesn't mind going in the backroom or outside to smoke, and now he is willing to bring his daughter in there, which he would never have done at the old place. I would say SUCCESS!! :D We have lots of stories like that.
 
Paul Schofield said:
This thread is about what the new smoking laws mean to pool. This thread is not a rant about who has got what rights and the heavy hand of government.

The new smoking laws are a catastrophic blow and a dagger through the heart of the business of pocket billiards. How can this be? Many restaurants and bars that have rid themselves of smoking have actually seen their sales recover and increase. If this is true then this must also extrapolate to poolrooms. It doesn’t. We have lost more than 70% of our poolrooms.

The answer sits in the governments demographic reports on smokers. Its eye opening and easy to see why some businesses benefit and others are destroyed.

1. The more educated an individual is, the less likely he/she smokes. A person with a mere high school education is 8X more like to smoke than a person with a college education beyond a bachelor degree.
2. In parallel, the higher a person’s income and net worth is, the less likely a person smokes. At the same time, the closer a person’s income approaches the poverty line, the more likely a person smokes.
3. Looking at a graph of smokers from the ages of 18 to 80, the closer a person is to the age of 18, the more likely the person smokes.

Who is our clientele? Take a look at the big picture. When a restaurant disallows smoking, and its customer base is from the 2nd and 3rd tier (5 tiers) of the demographic scale, smokers are replaced with many more non-smokers. This is because the smoker to non-smoker ratio heavily favors the non-smokers in this demographic.

The business of pool draws heaviest from the lowest fifth of the demographic scale. The highest percentage of smokers is in this group. Pool appeals to this group and our poolrooms are built to serve this group. Tell them that they can’t smoke in a poolroom and who replaces them? The smoker to non-smoker ratio in this demographic is much different than the tiers above them.

The smoking laws are here to stay and they will only become more stringent. This is very bad news for pool. Pool’s only hope is to break out of its current demographic. It has to be able to compete with the recreational options afforded by the higher demographic groups. This can only happen if our great game becomes more and different than what it is. Right now, it does not compete well.
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Excellent post, Paul! I think you've hit the nail on the head. I wonder how many folks in the higher demographic groups avoid bars and pool halls because of smoking? I know of many in my area who have quit league play because of smoking and the associated risks. Generally, these are the folks with more disposable income to spend.

I'm a Liberterian so I'm really torn on the issue of smoking bans. From a purely selfish standpoint, I would like to see smoking banned in bars. But I also don't like to see government interference in private business except where public health and safety is concerned.

Many argue that customers aren't forced to spend their money at smoking establishments but, in a sense, they are. In most areas, the choice is either to breathe bad air or quit playing pool. I'm giving serious consideration to quitting all league play due to the poor air quality in most bars.

Since most smokers are unwillling to consider voluntarily stepping outside to smoke, maybe a good compromise would be to legislate minimum air quality standards in bars. Then the business could decide whether to ban smoking or install an air filtration system. :cool:
 
cueandcushion said:
My personal opinion is that THIS had caused pool's decline more than any other factor. Intentionally or not, the sport of pool has molded itself to lower and lower income demographics. That is the root of MANY problems. Why advertisers don't want us. Why pool rooms are in worse neighborhoods than 50 years ago. Bad economies hit lower income people harder meaning less money for pool rooms.
Click to expand...

You said it much better than I did. :)
 
Yes, but No

Here in CO we've been thru the drill.
Remember when it was ok to smoke on an airplane, I know you have been there. The law initially affects business, but in the long run in CO the opposite affect is the norm. Your employees that don't smoke, the equipment that's used in the business doesn't have the nicotene buildup, and the smell of your patrons when they go home, doesn't affect their loved ones that Don't smoke. If I go to los angeles, I come home with a sore throat (air quality), if I go play in OK (smoking state) I return with the same cough and allot of times headaches from the nicotene and lack of Oxygen in the room. I tend to Not eat in smoky rooms and go elsewhere to enjoy a meal without the intrusion. Paul, yes a controversial topic, but one many pregnant women would avoid during their pregnancy....Smoke. I find it no different than going into a Cigar Bar and walkin out with nefarious concerns. People will always complain, but they will eventually like the outside patio provided for their addiction.
 
Paul Schofield said:
This thread is about what the new smoking laws mean to pool. This thread is not a rant about who has got what rights and the heavy hand of government.

The new smoking laws are a catastrophic blow and a dagger through the heart of the business of pocket billiards. How can this be? Many restaurants and bars that have rid themselves of smoking have actually seen their sales recover and increase. If this is true then this must also extrapolate to poolrooms. It doesn’t. We have lost more than 70% of our poolrooms.

The answer sits in the governments demographic reports on smokers. Its eye opening and easy to see why some businesses benefit and others are destroyed.

1. The more educated an individual is, the less likely he/she smokes. A person with a mere high school education is 8X more like to smoke than a person with a college education beyond a bachelor degree.
2. In parallel, the higher a person’s income and net worth is, the less likely a person smokes. At the same time, the closer a person’s income approaches the poverty line, the more likely a person smokes.
3. Looking at a graph of smokers from the ages of 18 to 80, the closer a person is to the age of 18, the more likely the person smokes.

Who is our clientele? Take a look at the big picture. When a restaurant disallows smoking, and its customer base is from the 2nd and 3rd tier (5 tiers) of the demographic scale, smokers are replaced with many more non-smokers. This is because the smoker to non-smoker ratio heavily favors the non-smokers in this demographic.

The business of pool draws heaviest from the lowest fifth of the demographic scale. The highest percentage of smokers is in this group. Pool appeals to this group and our poolrooms are built to serve this group. Tell them that they can’t smoke in a poolroom and who replaces them? The smoker to non-smoker ratio in this demographic is much different than the tiers above them.

The smoking laws are here to stay and they will only become more stringent. This is very bad news for pool. Pool’s only hope is to break out of its current demographic. It has to be able to compete with the recreational options afforded by the higher demographic groups. This can only happen if our great game becomes more and different than what it is. Right now, it does not compete well.
Click to expand...

Paul,

You're so full of sh itt they could make you a guano factory.............

Kim
 
Pool and smoking

Pool and smoking do not go hand in hand....Focus on good habits when it comes to pool and drop your bad habit, smoking. You'll be happier and so will everyone else!

I play in an in-house APA league where the bar has allowed smoking ONLY in the billiards room and not anywhere else in the large establishment. Believe me, this is and has been a disaster because the ventilation is near zero. It just gets worse and worse as the night goes on. The chain-smokers and the rest of the patrons who don't even play pool come to the billiards room to puff their smoke and then walk back out....leaving it worse than it was....
People who smoke believe that it's a right when truly it's only a privilege, and folks, it's being taken away all over the place....deal with it.

At least the bars aren't non-drinking....then you might see a sharp decline in your business ;)

Yes, people will whine and complain at first but just like everything else they will adjust and deal with it. Smokers rights? Really?! We can train dogs not to crap in the living room...I think you get my point here...GO OUTSIDE!
 
cueandcushion said:
Hi Paul. Got your private message asking me about the new Clean Air Act Law in St. Louis that prohibits most public areas from smoking and how it has affected our business.

We have been smoke free about 13 months now.

A short history. Our store is mostly retail and our 17 table billiard parlor accounts for about 9% of our income on the average. Some years more some less. Due to most retail customers being sensitive to smoke we have always had a strong desire to clean and keep smoke damage to a minimum. We admittedly have not always been successful. Smoke will get into everything and everywhere and leave an odor and a stain. Due to my lung problems, and to help reduce the smoke we installed 4 commercial smoke eater machines in the 80s to reduce smoke. We also installed a 36 inch ventilation fan which removes air from the building. Even with all this we had issues with smoke. Many customers would comment about the smoke when coming in the first time. Many customers that were used to bars or places without theses measures would comment how it was barely noticeable. We spent about 10 man hrs every week cleaning trying to keep the level tolerable for non smokers.

Jan 1,2011

This is when the Clean Air Act went into effect. Most smokers called it the Anti Smoker law or something similar. It was titled with some politically correct phrase but I don't have the link for the official title. For two years about 50% of our hardcore smokers informed us they would not be back after the law went into effect so that is what we expected. Before the law took effect we constructed an outdoor area with bench for smokers. We also had warning signage of when it was going to happen. When the ban took effect we saw a change about 30 days into the new year. Our business started growing. The 145 businesses (approximately) in the St. Louis County area that got smoking exemptions became saturated with heavy smokers. This had the effect of pushing out many light smokers and non smokers. Two pool rooms near us went under, both had smoking exemptions and allowed smoking. Our business kept going up. Ladies and couples on dates would stay longer due to not having to worry about smoke odor on their clothes. We have lost about 2 customers that I know of that cannot play pool because of not being able to smoke. I know we currently have added to our regulars many smokers because they have light habits and would rather take a smoke break than play in a room that has TOO much smoke. During the past year I also took up the task of repainting our entire drop ceiling and our walls. I also took 100% of every picture off the walls in the past year and scrubbing the paneling of smoke residue. I think this effort to make our place look better and smell better had a positive effect on the casual player and brought back many players that had given up pool due to the smoke factor. Our air conditioning bills are lower now due to less residue on the coils. Our tables need less cleaning because of nicotine making the rails sticky. I am still working on the room to this day. Still cleaning. Still painting the drop ceiling. I started on this project again this week. I know we are lucky to still be surviving in this bad economy but all I can do is make heart felt efforts to do the right thing and work extra hours hoping the public will take notice and give pool another chance.

Final tally. Our pool business went up about 20% or more since the smoking ban went into effect. Ball park guess. Havent gone over the books yet.
Click to expand...

Great Post....nuff said :)
 
I'm at the bars at least (3) nights a week here in NC. The business has not declined at all. In fact, it may have increased. There are more people coming out that didn't want to deal with the smoke,etc. I can't imagine going back to the way it was years ago.

***The US Amateurs in FL didn't allow smoking in the bar during matches this past year..:thumbup:. Smoking is allowed in FL.APA heard feedback from everyone from 2010. It looks like smoking in bars may take business away rather than other way around??
 
All I know is I only like to be in bars/pool rooms I can smoke in. That said, I have no idea how I'd feel about it if I quit. My guess is the opposite. So the real question is, are there more pool players who smoke (or tolerate smoke), or more who do not? Tough to say.

Anyway, it's always funny for me when people try to find THE reason why something happens. Generally, it is a mix of not one but MANY different variables.
 
Atlatlien said:
All I know is I only like to be in bars/pool rooms I can smoke in. That said, I have no idea how I'd feel about it if I quit. My guess is the opposite. So the real question is, are there more pool players who smoke (or tolerate smoke), or more who do not? Tough to say.

Anyway, it's always funny for me when people try to find THE reason why something happens. Generally, it is a mix of not one but MANY different variables.
Click to expand...

But the point is, you don't have to quit. Just take it outside. :cool:
 
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