Why Pool is devastated by the new Smoking Laws.

[PoolSharkAllen]

The smoking laws are here to stay and they will only become more stringent. This is very bad news for pool.

According to the 2010 Surgeon General's Report on tobacco smoking:

"Cigarettes are responsible for approximately 443,000 deaths—one in every five deaths—each year in the United States. The chronic diseases caused by tobacco use lead the causes of death and disability in the United States and unnecessarily strain our health care system. The economic burden of cigarette use includes more than $193 billion annually in health care costs and loss of productivity.

More than 1,000 people are killed every day by cigarettes, and one-half of all long-term smokers are killed by smoking-related diseases. A large proportion of these deaths are from early heart attacks, chronic lung diseases, and cancers. For every person who dies from tobacco use, another 20 Americans continue to suffer with at least one serious tobacco-related illness. But the harmful effects of smoking do not end with the smoker. Every year, thousands of nonsmokers die from heart disease and lung cancer, and hundreds of thousands of children suffer from respiratory infections because of exposure to secondhand smoke. There is no risk-free level of exposure to tobacco smoke, and there is no safe tobacco product."​

The evidence is irrefutable that tobacco smoking can cause cancer, cardiovascular and pulmonary diseases, and has adverse reproductive and developmental effects. Consequently, we can only hope that stringent anti-smoking laws take place nationwide. In the long run, banning smoking in every pool room will be good for pool and for the patrons' health too.

 

[justadub]

Bottom line - Don't tell anyone else how to live their life, let them decide for themselves and 'live and let live'.

The problem with that stance is the non-smoker doesn't have a choice if the room allows smoking. Everyone gets the smoke, regardless of whether they want it or not. Sure, the non-smoker has the "choice" to not play pool at all, but how does that help the room owner, the player, or the game itself?

Compared with a non-smoking room, where everyone can breathe, and the smokers can go outside to have one when they wish.

That sure seems a lot more of a true "live and let live" philosophy. Literally as well as theoretically.

 

[OneIron]

I don't understand the militant mentality of many smokers. Their knee jerk answer is always "If you don't like smoking, don't go to pool rooms".

I'm not asking anyone to quit smoking. Just show common courtesy to those of us who are bothered by the smoke or for health reasons, have no choice but to avoid smoke. It's not a huge inconvenience to step outside to smoke. After all, you have to walk the same distance to go to the restroom.

Couple of the local non-smoking rooms have built a nice smoking area. What do the smokers do? Park themselves by the front door to smoke. Seems like a lack of civility...

 

[KRJ]

Really Paul. I'm a smoker and I can't believe you said this. No wait, yes I can. I've read some of the other things you've typed.




How about Joe Camel in a hoodie? I bet you'd just squirt yourself if Camel did this for the younger crowd. You'd be selling Joe Camel Paul's Pool Hall hoodies in about the time it took you to have them made.

But seriously Paul. I thought all this dress code BS was your way of doing your part to help pool halls the world over to change the image of pool.

So its ok to smoke in your pool hall and blow smoke all over your staff, yourself, and non smoking patrons as long as the smokers are not wearing hoodies and are wearing a pair of Dockers and Sketchers?

Should start selling for Snap On Paul. You could have a cube van with the logo on the side: I'm A Tool.

BAM, no you didn't Yes, seems strange, ok to smoke, but take off your hoodie !!

 

[KweaSr]

I ran tournaments for 3 locations in MA before and after their smoking ban, and while things were tough for about 3 months, in the long run the ban was good for pool and bar business. Within 6 months my crowds were back to normal, and within a year I was breaking records.

A LOT of people stay away from pool halls BECAUSE of the smoke. And even more of them don't eat or drink much because of it. In halls that offered a real menu, the per ticket average went WAY up after the ban.

Leagues also experienced an increase in players every night that they offered competition.

I DO know one hall that went under, but that is because they spent $30,000 on smoke eaters....and then 3 months later the ban went into effect. But except for that one hall, the rest of them are doing fine.


What I have seen is if a hall was sound before the ban it did fine. If it had issues before the ban, it had a harder time recovering from the initial hit when the ban kicked in. We have been through a tough economic time (which started BEFORE Obama, BTW), and so called pleasure businesses always are the first to get hit. Luxuries like jewelry, watches, entertainment like music, pool, and vacation destinations.....they all suffer the most, and get hit first.

 

[nobcitypool]

The only issue I have with this whole anti smoking campaign is more government control over personal choice. The mere thought that the Government can dictate smoke/no smoke to a private business owner should be reprehensible to all of you. Whether you like it or not, it is not illegal to sell, purchase or smoke tobacco products in our country (yet anyway). But you, as the local municipality government or state government for some reason can tell me now how to run my business. Do you think it is going to be okay when they determine you can't smoke in your personal car or your home? What's next?

Please tell me why it is justifiable to ban smoking due to health reasons but yet nothing is being done about all the obese fat ass people stuffing their guts at fast food restaurants and subsequently killing themselves from heart disease, high blood pressure and diabetes?

So we have a Government that cannot run their business without a significant revenue loss, year in and year out but yet we trust them to make decisions FOR US about what is GOOD FOR US???? And dictate to private business owners, who absolutely must run their business at a profit in order to stay in business, what they must do with their own private property??? And these same incompetent morons, who are all contributing to multi trillion dollar deficits, are investing time on no smoking legislation versus focusing solely on our economy and unemployment why??? Way to focus energy on the most important things.

 

[justadub]

Please tell me why it is justifiable to ban smoking due to health reasons but yet nothing is being done about all the obese fat ass people stuffing their guts at fast food restaurants and subsequently killing themselves from heart disease, high blood pressure and diabetes?

You realize, of course, that someone eating a triple cheeseburger nearby isn't exposing me to their cholesterol problems, don't you? The smoke generated by the smoker doesn't affect only the smoker, but anyone in the immediate vicinity.

I'm not interested in limiting peoples ability to smoke if they so choose. I'm just interested in not having to be exposed to it if I so choose. The outdoor smoking area resolves these issues, and the smoker doesn't loose his choice to smoke, just his ability to smoke where others would be exposed to it.

 

[smoooothstroke]

quote:

The smoking laws are here to stay and they will only become more stringent. This is very bad news for pool. Pool’s only hope is to break out of its current demographic. It has to be able to compete with the recreational options afforded by the higher demographic groups. This can only happen if our great game becomes more and different than what it is. Right now, it does not compete well.

IMO eventually this will happen once more states ban indoor burning of toxins in public.

One thing I would point out is that a state smoking ban is not the same as one business disalowing smoking.In that case smokers would just go down the street to an establishment where they can smoke.It appears to me that a high percentage of the pool players/customers where I play pool are smokers.They are not giving up pool because they cannot smoke in the building,they seam to be going outside to smoke.

IMO smoking bans have had an effect on pool but it is much less a factor then things like the economy and poker..

There are tons of peeps underempolyed right now and trying to scratch out a few bucks at the local pool room as.In a normal economy these peeps would be working and instead would be trying to spend a few bucks at the local pool room..

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

The smoke generated by the smoker doesn't affect only the smoker, but anyone in the immediate vicinity.

I'm not interested in limiting peoples ability to smoke if they so choose. I'm just interested in not having to be exposed to it if I so choose. The outdoor smoking area resolves these issues, and the smoker doesn't loose his choice to smoke, just his ability to smoke where others would be exposed to it.

Having a outdoor smoking area does not necessarily resolve the issue of secondhand smoke. Oftentimes, there are so many smokers congregating outside that pool players who are playing indoors near the entrance can still smell the smoke wafting in as people enter and leave the pool room.

 

[justadub]

Having a outdoor smoking area does not necessarily resolve the issue of secondhand smoke. Oftentimes, there are so many smokers congregating outside that pool players who are playing indoors near the entrance can still smell the smoke wafting in as people enter and leave the pool room.

I agree with you. Still, an outdoor smoking area is not quite the same thing as standing by the front door. At least here, where smoking has been banned indoors for quite some time.

The places I play at all have outdoor smoking areas, separate from the front door. Yes, there is still a door where some smoke can get in, but that is a miniscule fraction of what it would be, compared to what would have been generated indoors in the first place. Most non-smokers will trade for that in an instant.

And when a place actually tries to work within the system, to accommodate the smokers, it can work out well. There are 3 different places where I hang out and play here. They all have area's that provide shelter from the elements if need be, and are fenced in to comply with alcohol laws, so that smokers can take their drinks with them, if they wish. They have nice patio style chairs and tables at one of the places, well kept picnic style tables at the other two, so when the weather is nice, it is actually a preferred spot for patrons to go and hang out when they aren't shooting. Many non-smokers, like myself, will go outside and accompany our friends to enjoy the atmosphere and not have to take in the smoke at the same time.

It can be done. It does work. It is just a matter of the establishments trying to work within the system to satisfy as many people as possible.

 

[skogstokig]

there are pros and cons like with everything else... now more people bring their kids to a pool hall. i never used to see parents bring 7-10 year olds to smoke-filled pool halls, but now i see that.

"my" pool hall has two designated smoke rooms which is nice if it's rainy outside

 

[nobcitypool]

You realize, of course, that someone eating a triple cheeseburger nearby isn't exposing me to their cholesterol problems, don't you? The smoke generated by the smoker doesn't affect only the smoker, but anyone in the immediate vicinity.

I'm not interested in limiting peoples ability to smoke if they so choose. I'm just interested in not having to be exposed to it if I so choose. The outdoor smoking area resolves these issues, and the smoker doesn't loose his choice to smoke, just his ability to smoke where others would be exposed to it.

I think you missed my point. I'm all for banning smoking in public places and government owned facilities. However, nobody is forcing you to go into a privately owned establishment where the owner has chosen to allow smoking on his property. If you have an interest in not being exposed to it, simply don't go in. I don't believe our Constitution provides you or anyone else with an inalienable right to dictate to a business or personal property owner how they operate their business. If that business owner believes they're business benefits by allowing smoking, and thereby loses your business, they should be allowed to do so and not controlled by some pompous government bureaucrat who can't even run their own business without deficit spending.

You think you're not being exposed to that obese individual's cholesterol eating habits? Really? How about when that individual is too fat to work and is collecting unemployment for food stamps? How about when that individual ends up in the hospital ringing up hospital bills in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range that are being paid for with government tax dollars or results in raising your health insurance rates? Tell me how that doesn't negatively impact you and every other tax paying citizen?

Don't believe Government control of your life ends with a smoking ban. That's just a a start. Wake up and look around, every single year our Government is taking more rights away and attempting to control your life and your freedom more and more. Slowly but surely.

If you're so concerned about second hand smoke, why are internal combustion engines still allowed? The poisons and carcinogens exhausted by automobiles, trucks, trains and buses are far more hazardous to your health than second hand smoke. Ever driven by a coal fired electricity generating facility and seen what comes out of those big stacks? Funny how those hazards are ignored and all the people so concerned about being affected by second hand smoke aren't vigorously lobbying their Senators and Representatives to outlaw cars and electricity.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

The only issue I have with this whole anti smoking campaign is more government control over personal choice. The mere thought that the Government can dictate smoke/no smoke to a private business owner should be reprehensible to all of you. Whether you like it or not, it is not illegal to sell, purchase or smoke tobacco products in our country (yet anyway). But you, as the local municipality government or state government for some reason can tell me now how to run my business. Do you think it is going to be okay when they determine you can't smoke in your personal car or your home? What's next?

Please tell me why it is justifiable to ban smoking due to health reasons but yet nothing is being done about all the obese fat ass people stuffing their guts at fast food restaurants and subsequently killing themselves from heart disease, high blood pressure and diabetes?

So we have a Government that cannot run their business without a significant revenue loss, year in and year out but yet we trust them to make decisions FOR US about what is GOOD FOR US???? And dictate to private business owners, who absolutely must run their business at a profit in order to stay in business, what they must do with their own private property??? And these same incompetent morons, who are all contributing to multi trillion dollar deficits, are investing time on no smoking legislation versus focusing solely on our economy and unemployment why??? Way to focus energy on the most important things.

NPR is down the hall, third door on the right. You'll fit in there quite nicely.:grin-square:

Edit: BTW, I sympathize with your position on Big Gub, just that it never touched on the subject at hand - whether smoking regs are hurting pool.

 

[Chopdoc]

I think you missed my point. I'm all for banning smoking in public places and government owned facilities. However, nobody is forcing you to go into a privately owned establishment where the owner has chosen to allow smoking on his property. If you have an interest in not being exposed to it, simply don't go in. I don't believe our Constitution provides you or anyone else with an inalienable right to dictate to a business or personal property owner how they operate their business. If that business owner believes they're business benefits by allowing smoking, and thereby loses your business, they should be allowed to do so and not controlled by some pompous government bureaucrat who can't even run their own business without deficit spending.

You think you're not being exposed to that obese individual's cholesterol eating habits? Really? How about when that individual is too fat to work and is collecting unemployment for food stamps? How about when that individual ends up in the hospital ringing up hospital bills in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range that are being paid for with government tax dollars or results in raising your health insurance rates? Tell me how that doesn't negatively impact you and every other tax paying citizen?

Don't believe Government control of your life ends with a smoking ban. That's just a a start. Wake up and look around, every single year our Government is taking more rights away and attempting to control your life and your freedom more and more. Slowly but surely.

If you're so concerned about second hand smoke, why are internal combustion engines still allowed? The poisons and carcinogens exhausted by automobiles, trucks, trains and buses are far more hazardous to your health than second hand smoke. Ever driven by a coal fired electricity generating facility and seen what comes out of those big stacks? Funny how those hazards are ignored and all the people so concerned about being affected by second hand smoke aren't vigorously lobbying their Senators and Representatives to outlaw cars and electricity.

Your response may not be popular, but I have to agree with it.

Education, not legislation, is the answer.

As far as places of business, if they provide an environment that is too uncomfortable for too many people, then they will lose business. They will either change to keep their customer base, or they won't.

Banning smoking does not achieve the intended result. In other words it does not work.




.

 

[SouthernDraw]

I'm a non smoker that believes the gov't has no right placing a ban on a private business, but that being said it is nice to go to a poolroom and not have the red stinging eyes from smoke and the smelly clothes.

As for pool, my area rooms are doing better than before, which surprises me. I believe this will be good for poolrooms and maybe not that good for table manufacturers. Because pool reaches beyond the lower income levels that you often see at poolrooms. This has always been known by manufacturers and probably why they don't care so much about pool as a sport, like we in the poolroom see it. They are busy making high price furniture tables that play terribly and have a high markup. This just gives one group of potential pro supporters one less reason to stay away from poolrooms.

"Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars." ---Casey Kasem

 

[Johnny9]

The pool rooms, restaurants, bowling alleys, etc., are all hurting from these laws. I am a courteous smoker, who would prefer to at least have a smoking area or smoking section in these establishments while I am playing, or eating. I definitely do not want to infringe on the rights of non smokers

 

[nobcitypool]

NPR is down the hall, third door on the right. You'll fit in there quite nicely.:grin-square:

Edit: BTW, I sympathize with your position on Big Gub, just that it never touched on the subject at hand - whether smoking regs are hurting pool.

Actually, I think it does. I think the Government sticking their noses in private business owners business is bad for everyone, including pool players.

BTW, I think there are more common sense solutions that could serve everyone. Why couldn't local government get together with business owners, whose business could potentially be negatively impacted by smoking bans, and develop a compromise? How about tax credits, for those owners who wish to retain smoking establishments, who invest in hi end air purification systems and even putting up some walls in their building to truly segregate the smokers and non smokers? I've been in numerous cigar shops and hi end cigar bars that have these type of air filters and they do an amazing job. Perhaps not the 100% perfect solution for the non smoker but perhaps the perfect compromise so that everyone can win.

It should be evident to everyone the USA has a very negative environment for business. Why do you think so many companies have moved off shore? It isn't just the cheaper labor. Keep rooting for all these laws and regulations, which put people out of business, and someday in the not too distant future, second hand smoke will be the very least of your worries.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Like I mentioned, I am a smoker but have cut down considerably. I also chew
so that takes the craving away for the most part.

When I play pool which is as many times a week as work will allow, I am there to play, not smoke. I might duck out for one during the evening.

Restaurants for sure. I don't want to pay $120 for two and have someone blow smoke in my direction.

And you can't blame people for not wanting stinky clothes.

Most places around here have smoking decks. No big deal, it takes 5 minutes to have a quick puff outside.

In the winter, the bars have heated decks. Even when its 30 below, you can keep warm enuff for one smoke.

Our one pool halls has a small covered smoking shed. Its never been an issue here.

The pool hall owner told me that if his wife wasn't running a side business
in the same building, that he wouldn't be able to make a go of it.

Smoking isn't going to make you or break you. Plain and simple.

Ironic that the two threads Paul has started. On one hand he is concerned that the smoking ban might affect his business, yet he potentially turns away possibly hundreds in revenue because of how people are dressed.

Gotta get the priorities in order I think.

 

[KRJ]

Actually, I think it does. I think the Government sticking their noses in private business owners business is bad for everyone, including pool players.

BTW, I think there are more common sense solutions that could serve everyone. Why couldn't local government get together with business owners, whose business could potentially be negatively impacted by smoking bans, and develop a compromise? How about tax credits, for those owners who wish to retain smoking establishments, who invest in hi end air purification systems and even putting up some walls in their building to truly segregate the smokers and non smokers? I've been in numerous cigar shops and hi end cigar bars that have these type of air filters and they do an amazing job. Perhaps not the 100% perfect solution for the non smoker but perhaps the perfect compromise so that everyone can win.

It should be evident to everyone the USA has a very negative environment for business. Why do you think so many companies have moved off shore? It isn't just the cheaper labor. Keep rooting for all these laws and regulations, which put people out of business, and someday in the not too distant future, second hand smoke will be the very least of your worries.

For heaves sake, I've said this before.....

If I"m polite enough to walk the 30 feet to take a dump so as not to disrupt the pool playing experience of the customers around me by not doing it in a pail next to the table, a smoker can walk 30 feet in the other direction and smoke to his delight outside the front door.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Actually, I think it does...

That's what we are debating, and I'm not so convinced that anti-smoking legislation has devastated pool. If a state enacts a smoking ban then all pool halls are in the same boat. So the issue isn't about losing customers to the room down the street that still allows smoking. It's about the number of smokers that will give up pool altogether because they can't smoke in the pool room. The assumption is that there will be more smokers giving up pool than the number of people that might take the game up or return to the game if provided a smoke free environment.

Given this, I'm not so sure that non-smoking is a net loss for the industry, especially taking into account the potential increase in revenues from the kitchen if food is served in a smoke free room, and the potential for more family participation.