Why Titlist?

Cdryden

Cdryden

Pool Addict
Silver Member
At the risk of sounding ignorant why is Titlist cues so popular for conversion? Is the but section completely redone or are parts of it saved? Is the original shaft used? I know this is day one stuff for most of you guys but no one has ever explained it to me. Also I noticed Dufferin is another popular cue used for this. Is it for the same reasons or different?

Thanks for the education!
 
Cdryden said:
At the risk of sounding ignorant why is Titlist cues so popular for conversion? Is the but section completely redone or are parts of it saved? Is the original shaft used? I know this is day one stuff for most of you guys but no one has ever explained it to me. Also I noticed Dufferin is another popular cue used for this. Is it for the same reasons or different?

Thanks for the education!
Click to expand...

Balabushka used them as did a few other cue makers way back. Beyond that, they were just mass produced house cues. I played in a pool room and all the cues on the wall were Titlists.
 
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They're cool looking old seasoned wood for the most part ... A piece of history ... Careful that history doesn't come apart when tapering ... I'm not so big on them when todays adhesives and cuts are superior to what was used on the Titleist ... I go for performance first , whatever gets the ball in the hole ... Usually a maker will save 30" of the butt to work with , make a shaft and install rings and pin , fit shaft , and finish ... Sounds easy , expensive endeavor ...
 
The Dufferins are a different animal.
There was a time when Duffs were about the nicest house cue you could get. They were also a little more money.
But the figuring of the wood that was used in the butt section was, and for the most part still is, some of the most spectacular you'll likely find in a house cue.
They offer a nice platform for a conversion.
 
Classic 4 point, 4 veneer, full-spliced goodness! If a Titlist were a car, I think it would be a '59 Corvette.
Mr H
 
Mr Hoppe said:
Classic 4 point, 4 veneer, full-spliced goodness! If a Titlist were a car, I think it would be a '59 Corvette.
Mr H
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That is not a very good analogy, They were not really anything exceptional, just house cues with veneers. They were not made to any special high standard. Most I have seen over the years have the veneers popping out and are falling apart. I have one in my shop that looks like a flower that has bloomed. To be honest, except for the veneers one would be better off getting an old seasoning Tru Balance with no veneers that has been in a rack for years. I think the veneers weaken the cues since so many just fall apart. I even remembering it happening in the pool room. You would grab a cue from the rack and you could feel all the veneers and the point of the splice would be sticking out sometimes. The house man would often have a few behind the counter he had buttered up with some glue and wrapped with rubber bands. Then he would sand them and put on some wax. I don't remember them having a very good finish on them at all, not like today. Maybe just some lacquer. I think to find a good one today would be few and far between. I would much rather have a cue maker build me a reproduction with todays materials and built to a high standard. You would have a better cue in my opinion.
 
macguy said:
That is not a very good analogy, They were not really anything exceptional, just house cues with veneers. They were not made to any special high standard. Most I have seen over the years have the veneers popping out and are falling apart. I have one in my shop that looks like a flower that has bloomed. To be honest, except for the veneers one would be better off getting an old seasoning Tru Balance with no veneers that has been in a rack for years. I think the veneers weaken the cues since so many just fall apart. I even remembering it happening in the pool room. You would grab a cue from the rack and you could feel all the veneers and the point of the splice would be sticking out sometimes. The house man would often have a few behind the counter he had buttered up with some glue and wrapped with rubber bands. Then he would sand them and put on some wax. I don't remember them having a very good finish on them at all, not like today. Maybe just some lacquer. I think to find a good one today would be few and far between. I would much rather have a cue maker build me a reproduction with todays materials and built to a high standard. You would have a better cue in my opinion.
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I'm sorry to disillusion you, but your experience is far from typical.
Where was this poolroom you refer to? - outdooes at the beach??

As to the OP's question.

The Tit;ist<and the predecessore> is the historically most important
cue ever made in America.

It was the basis for the Hoppe Pro - the most popular model 2 piece cue
of all time.

It was the starting point for Rambows, Bushkas, Paradice, Palmer, Viking,
Gina, Tad and more.

It is the very definition of a 'traditional' cue.

Again, for the OP, google "oldsplice"<or search AZ> for a site
with much good info

Dale
 
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I'm a die hard titlist fan.

Nothing compares to them, rich in history, great feel and a beauty in its own class.

You are holding a piece of history in your hands.
 
pdcue said:
I'm sorry to disillusion you, but your experience is far from typical.
Where was this poolroom you refer to? - outdooes at the beach??

As to the OP's question.

The Tit;ist<and the predecessore> is the historically most important
cue ever made in America.

It was the basis for the Hoppe Pro - the most popular model 2 piece cue
of all time.

It was the starting point for Rambows, Bushkas, Paradice, Palmer, Viking,
Gina, Tad and more.

It is the very definition of a 'traditional' cue.

Again, for the OP, google "oldsplice"<or search AZ> for a site
with much good info

Dale
Click to expand...
The Congress Billiards in Miami in the 60's and 70's. They also had them in many other pool rooms around and to feel the veneers was very common. There was nothing high end about those cues, they made them by the thousands. I will add though, the ones that have survived just through iteration are probably the cream of the crop.
 
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Thank you all for your answers. At least now I feel like I have a clue when I hear you guys talking about titlist conversions. And I can appreciate the history behind them. Personally I prefer a cue without points but I can see why alot of people like them. I love the look of old growth wood and the tight grain patterns.
Anyhow thanks for shedding some light on this for me, you guys are great!

Chris
 
prathers

i love the titlist and buy as many as i can find for conversions.

But on the other hand i had prathers make me a full splice one piece butt with titlist colored veneers a few years ago and i think it looked just as good, and played even better that any titlist conversion i have ever made.

i know it did not have the history, and was not an antique, but when you just get down to playability i believe the newer cues are just as good.

chuck starkey
 
macguy said:
The Congress Billiards in Miami in the 60's and 70's. They also had them in many other pool rooms around and to feel the veneers was very common. There was nothing high end about those cues, they made them by the thousands.
Click to expand...

'Congress Billiards in Miami' - so, how was the humidity in
Miami in those days?

I don't quite understand your obsession with Titlist not being
"high end". I would just point out that, for the time, they were about as
high end as a house cue could get. At the risk of repeating myself,
it is the classic look - and, IMHO the historical significance that
form the basis for the current popularity of Titlist.

Whether or not they were the best cue ever produced by
modern man, really has nothing to do with the question asked - IMHO.

If you were old enough to be in a poolroom in the 60s, I would think
you would be aware of the huge diference in expectations for
a cue back then as compared to today.

Dale
 
pdcue said:
'Congress Billiards in Miami' - so, how was the humidity in
Miami in those days?

I don't quite understand your obsession with Titlist not being
"high end". I would just point out that, for the time, they were about as
high end as a house cue could get. At the risk of repeating myself,
it is the classic look - and, IMHO the historical significance that
form the basis for the current popularity of Titlist.

Whether or not they were the best cue ever produced by
modern man, really has nothing to do with the question asked - IMHO.

If you were old enough to be in a poolroom in the 60s, I would think
you would be aware of the huge difference in expectations for
a cue back then as compared to today.

Dale
Click to expand...
The Congress was never closed, it was open 24 hours and the environment was pretty consistent although it was usually kind of cold. I was pretty much answering the OP question and they were a popular house period. Nothing special. I have a Balabushka that is made from a Titlist and it plays nice and he may have created the mystic with cuemakers trying to make pretend Balabushka's. A cue built from scratch today is a better cue in my opinion.
 
macguy said:
The Congress was never closed, it was open 24 hours and the environment was pretty consistent although it was usually kind of cold. I was pretty much answering the OP question and they were a popular house period. Nothing special. I have a Balabushka that is made from a Titlist and it plays nice and he may have created the mystic with cuemakers trying to make pretend Balabushka's. A cue built from scratch today is a better cue in my opinion.
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I would chime in on this thread, but pdcue seems to be reading my mind . . . I will, however, add the following tid bits to the discussion:

1) During the time that the Brunswick 4 point 4 veneer cue was known as the Titlist and Hoppe Pro, it was indeed their finest (most expensive and most ornate) offering. They did make them by the thousands, maybe even the tens of thousands, because they were just that popular. True, they were a house cue. But then again, most cues of the time were one piece "house cues" as most players did not carry their own cues from place to place in those days. The two piece version of the Titlist, called the Hoppe Professional was three times the price!

2) I too think the veneer problem that you have seen is the exception rather than the rule. Very true that today's adhesives are far superior, but I have atleast 50 of these cues myself, and haven't seen any extreme deteriation in the veneers. True, you can feel the veneers through the finish on many, but the laquer/polishes used 60 years ago didn't have the build up that today's automotive clear coats do. Refinish one with a good modern clear coat and problem solved! The structural integrity is fine, and I have yet to resort to glue and rubberbands to repair any of mine. ;)

3) The Titlist/Hoppe Pro/Carom King/26.5 experienced wide spread popularity in the US WAY before George Balabushka even made his first cue.

I couldn't agree more with the sentement that the Titlist and it's other forms (Hoppe Pro/Carom King/26.5) is undoubtedly one of the most significant cue models in billiards history. It was made by the thousands for about 60 years, used at one time or another by probably every significant US cue maker, and they are still prized and emulated today as the perfect blend of form and function in a billiard instrument.

Mr H
 
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Mr Hoppe said:
I would chime in on this thread, but pdcue seems to be reading my mind . . . I will, however, add the following tid bits to the discussion:

1) During the time that the Brunswick 4 point 4 veneer cue was known as the Titlist and Hoppe Pro, it was indeed their finest (most expensive and most ornate) offering. They did make them by the thousands, maybe even the tens of thousands, because they were that popular. True, they were a house cue. But then again, most players did not carry their own cues from place to place in those days. The two piece version of the Titlist, called the Hoppe Pro was three times the price!

2) I too think the veneer problem that you have seen is the exception rather than the rule. Very true that today's adhesives are far superior, but I have atleast 50 of these cues myself, and haven't seen any extreme deteriation in the veneers. True, you can feel the veneers through the finish on many, but the laquer/polishes used 60 years ago didn't have the build up that today's automotive clear coats do. Refinish one with a good modern clear coat and problem solved! The structural integrity is fine, and I have yet to resort to glue and rubberbands to repair any of mine. ;)

3) The Titlist/Hoppe Pro/Carom King/26.5 experienced wide spread popularity in the US WAY before George Balabushka even made his first cue.

I couldn't agree more with the sentement that the Titlist and it's other forms (Hoppe Pro/Carom King/26.5) is undoubtedly one of the most significant cue models in billiards history. It was made by the thousands for about 60 years, used at one time or another by probably every significant US cue maker, and they are still prized and emulated today as the perfect blend of form and function in a billiard instrument.

Mr H
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Many are not the vintage people think. You may know better then me, but weren't they also most recently ( last 25 years or so) made over seas for Brunswick? Those are many of the cues that cue makers get a hold of and convert passing them off as vintage Titlists.
 
macguy said:
Many are not the vintage people think. You may know better then me, but weren't they also most recently ( last 25 years or so) made over seas for Brunswick? Those are many of the cues that cue makers get a hold of and convert passing them off as vintage Titlists.
Click to expand...

Yes manufacture was outsourced in the later years, but not for 25 years. These cues were not as desirable, not due to the forearm or veneer quality, but rather due to major changes in overall design. The Brunswick Personal is the main example. The forearm was the same, but the rings, joint and grip were all . . . let's just say, of questionable taste. :)
Mr H
 
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Mr Hoppe said:
I would chime in on this thread, but pdcue seems to be reading my mind . . . I will, however, add the following tid bits to the discussion:

1) During the time that the Brunswick 4 point 4 veneer cue was known as the Titlist and Hoppe Pro, it was indeed their finest (most expensive and most ornate) offering. They did make them by the thousands, maybe even the tens of thousands, because they were just that popular. True, they were a house cue. But then again, most cues of the time were one piece "house cues" as most players did not carry their own cues from place to place in those days. The two piece version of the Titlist, called the Hoppe Professional was three times the price!

2) I too think the veneer problem that you have seen is the exception rather than the rule. Very true that today's adhesives are far superior, but I have atleast 50 of these cues myself, and haven't seen any extreme deteriation in the veneers. True, you can feel the veneers through the finish on many, but the laquer/polishes used 60 years ago didn't have the build up that today's automotive clear coats do. Refinish one with a good modern clear coat and problem solved! The structural integrity is fine, and I have yet to resort to glue and rubberbands to repair any of mine. ;)

3) The Titlist/Hoppe Pro/Carom King/26.5 experienced wide spread popularity in the US WAY before George Balabushka even made his first cue.

I couldn't agree more with the sentement that the Titlist and it's other forms (Hoppe Pro/Carom King/26.5) is undoubtedly one of the most significant cue models in billiards history. It was made by the thousands for about 60 years, used at one time or another by probably every significant US cue maker, and they are still prized and emulated today as the perfect blend of form and function in a billiard instrument.

Mr H
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Great comment, couldn't agree more, wish I had a quarter of your collection. :thumbup:
 
desi2960 said:
i love the titlist and buy as many as i can find for conversions.

But on the other hand i had prathers make me a full splice one piece butt with titlist colored veneers a few years ago and i think it looked just as good, and played even better that any titlist conversion i have ever made.

i know it did not have the history, and was not an antique, but when you just get down to playability i believe the newer cues are just as good.

chuck starkey
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I agree Chuck...those Prather blanks turn into some very fine players!!

I cannot say that I wouldn't love to have a wrapless Titlist conversion in my tiny collection. However, I do not care for the conversions where the handle has obviously been cut out, and new handle added, and then a wrap. Why?....because the very thing that made the Titlist play so well in the first place is gone...which is the full splice. Of course, this is just MY opinion, and I am sure there are many collectors of these cues that would disagree with me most whole-heartedly. :sorry:

Lisa
 
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