cluelesscuer
New member
Do you think the many 7 ft Valley bar boxes will start to replaced by 7 ft diamond bar boxes in bars more often in the future?
Will Diamonds replace Valleys?
- Thread starter cluelesscuer
- Start date
I don't think so.
While I much prefer to play on Diamonds, Valley hit the nail on the head when it came to having a pool table in the bars.
What does a bar owner want to happen to his pool table? To have people put money in the table. The faster games can be over the faster people have to put in more money. For the average bar room player this happens much faster on a Valley than on a Diamond.
While the demand from players to have Diamond tables has strengthened, if I owned a bar I would probably have to go against my personal preferences and install Valleys for this reason.
Woody
While I much prefer to play on Diamonds, Valley hit the nail on the head when it came to having a pool table in the bars.
What does a bar owner want to happen to his pool table? To have people put money in the table. The faster games can be over the faster people have to put in more money. For the average bar room player this happens much faster on a Valley than on a Diamond.
While the demand from players to have Diamond tables has strengthened, if I owned a bar I would probably have to go against my personal preferences and install Valleys for this reason.
Woody
cluelesscuer
New member
Yea...this kind of what I am thinking...that they won't.
I guess this leads to my second question, how come more people don't buy 7 ft Valleys for their homes?
I am the first person who hates 7 ft bar boxes and even more sore, crappy ones like Valleys. I am a 9 ft guy. But the most pool in leagues and bars is played on 7 ft Valleys. Not too mention, that 7 ft Valleys are relatively inexpensive to get.
I guess this leads to my second question, how come more people don't buy 7 ft Valleys for their homes?
I am the first person who hates 7 ft bar boxes and even more sore, crappy ones like Valleys. I am a 9 ft guy. But the most pool in leagues and bars is played on 7 ft Valleys. Not too mention, that 7 ft Valleys are relatively inexpensive to get.
I don't think they will ever dominate like the Valley tables. I think they will make continued inroads but Valley tables are kinda like the Brunswick Gold Crowns, there are just so many of them out there.
Valley tables will be around for a long time. I have heard that some league players don't like playing on Diamonds. For most folks, bar table equals a Valley table.
Ken
The bar owner at the bar I play league at wants to replace his valley bar tables with Diamond but he said the expense of the tables isn't worth it.
That being said I feel if a bar owner was a league player and was buying new tables they would consider it. Depends on the priorities.
For the record someone mentioned owning a 7 foot Valley at home. I have one. I mostly play bar boxes and that was about the only size that would fit in the room I wanted to put in a table. It's an older one (1972) and not coin operated but does the trick. Plays just like the ones at the bars here locally.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
That being said I feel if a bar owner was a league player and was buying new tables they would consider it. Depends on the priorities.
For the record someone mentioned owning a 7 foot Valley at home. I have one. I mostly play bar boxes and that was about the only size that would fit in the room I wanted to put in a table. It's an older one (1972) and not coin operated but does the trick. Plays just like the ones at the bars here locally.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
If you put Ridgeback rails and Simonis cloth on a Valley they are ok. In my area you can by used Valleys for $6-800 all day. A used Diamond is three times that, not even close.
If money were no object, I would have at least one Diamond table, but alas, I will have to make do with my Gold Crown.
If money were no object, I would have at least one Diamond table, but alas, I will have to make do with my Gold Crown.
Looking from another perspective.
In our area, most bars that have pool tables, the tables are the property of an entertainment group. The owner of the bar doesn't own the tables, but get a take of the money spent on them. This isn't necessarily the case of "pool bars" in which there are maybe 4 or more tables and they do tourney's etc.
So it would actually have to be the entertainment group that would need to decide to invest in the more expensive, better quality Diamond's, not necessarily the bar owner.
In our area, most bars that have pool tables, the tables are the property of an entertainment group. The owner of the bar doesn't own the tables, but get a take of the money spent on them. This isn't necessarily the case of "pool bars" in which there are maybe 4 or more tables and they do tourney's etc.
So it would actually have to be the entertainment group that would need to decide to invest in the more expensive, better quality Diamond's, not necessarily the bar owner.
So the bar I play out of has a new valley, plays and looks like a diamond I asked the owner for a diamond (he is a friend) neways apa teams are losing their minds, I just keep saying that won't fall here anymore
Since the diamond smart tables come with different pocket cuts, you can still get a diamond smart table with buckets.
The biggest obstacle will be the cost of replacing the valley tables. This is the case in the DFW area.
However, for room owners that are wanting to attract more business in the form of leagues or a new place looking to put in tables for the first time, the smart tables are an attraction.
An example is Jamaica Joe's in Oklahoma. Nothing but diamond smart tables (I want to say around 14 or so.). Just about packed every night with leagues and or tournaments, and seem to be beating the pants off other venues in the area that have something besides DST.
my $.02
The biggest obstacle will be the cost of replacing the valley tables. This is the case in the DFW area.
However, for room owners that are wanting to attract more business in the form of leagues or a new place looking to put in tables for the first time, the smart tables are an attraction.
An example is Jamaica Joe's in Oklahoma. Nothing but diamond smart tables (I want to say around 14 or so.). Just about packed every night with leagues and or tournaments, and seem to be beating the pants off other venues in the area that have something besides DST.
my $.02
Here in the Valley of the Sun no because most bars have table own be a THIRD PARTY Vending Company. The owner split the money in the bar box for space taken by the tables, it is a win, win for the bar owner who ge their cut of the money. Also these Vending Company often do the same with bar top games.
Most smart bar owner know the profit fom a bar is booze sales, and serious pool player are not big drinkers of spirits.
Most smart bar owner know the profit fom a bar is booze sales, and serious pool player are not big drinkers of spirits.
I see Diamond marketing their equipment to a different segment of the pool playing population than Valley. As such, I don't see them competing directly.
A smart owner should know his/her customers, and how to maximize revenue. If your customer base is catering mainly to league and higher level players, then you install 9' tables, high quality equipment (cloth replaced on regular basis). If your revenue stream is derived mainly from casual drinkers, and date night bangers then you would invest accordingly.
A smart owner should know his/her customers, and how to maximize revenue. If your customer base is catering mainly to league and higher level players, then you install 9' tables, high quality equipment (cloth replaced on regular basis). If your revenue stream is derived mainly from casual drinkers, and date night bangers then you would invest accordingly.
Last edited:
I feel sorry for all you folks. Here in Portland and surrounding areas, many/most bars have been changing out their Valleys for Diamonds. In most cases if you want pool league in your bar you better get the Diamonds because there are Diamonds down the street.
It's the customer who drives this. The first place around here to get Diamonds was the Midway. Everyone played there, everyone wanted their APA and bca teams there and when players wanted just to play, Midway was the place to go. Didn't take long for other bars to see the hit to their revenue. Now I can count 20 bars within 20 miles who have at least 2 Diamonds.
It's the customer who drives this. The first place around here to get Diamonds was the Midway. Everyone played there, everyone wanted their APA and bca teams there and when players wanted just to play, Midway was the place to go. Didn't take long for other bars to see the hit to their revenue. Now I can count 20 bars within 20 miles who have at least 2 Diamonds.
Here's a question for you, who is the major buyer of the Valley tables? Lets see what you really know, then I'll tell you how and why Valley will close its doors sooner or later
I agree with many that Diamond tables probably won't replace Valley tables...mostly because Valley tables are provided and distributed by vendors.
However, the lucky players have diamonds to shoot on...they are much nice to play, and quite frankly...if you are tuned in to a diamond...every other table is easy to shoot on.
Bar owners are clueing in to this trend...but only true pool hall owners that fully support their players and the game will go Diamond. The marketing strategy by diamond is very smart...don't compete directly...steal the big venues (Vegas) and make offers that a room owner can't refuse.
The market on valleys is sick though, I know around here, you have to have a table provided by the gaming company or none at all...if you want their poker and keno machines. And of course..no vendor puts out diamonds...at least not in Montana.
However, the lucky players have diamonds to shoot on...they are much nice to play, and quite frankly...if you are tuned in to a diamond...every other table is easy to shoot on.
Bar owners are clueing in to this trend...but only true pool hall owners that fully support their players and the game will go Diamond. The marketing strategy by diamond is very smart...don't compete directly...steal the big venues (Vegas) and make offers that a room owner can't refuse.
The market on valleys is sick though, I know around here, you have to have a table provided by the gaming company or none at all...if you want their poker and keno machines. And of course..no vendor puts out diamonds...at least not in Montana.
Here's a question for you, who is the major buyer of the Valley tables? Lets see what you really know, then I'll tell you how and why Valley will close its doors sooner or later
I've not seen any "new" valleys anywhere I've been in quite some time. I've seen new Diamond tables in 3 pool halls/bars in the recent years. I don't know what the new valley tables even look like.
Just an observation from a man in Alabama. May be different other places, but I kind of doubt it.