Will this shutdown finish off most pool halls in the US?

grindz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Smart money should be cash rich right now, and the opportunities for low cost
leases and space will probably open up. Whether someone chooses pool/bar
as their choice of business model is any ones guess.

td
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
well run businesses usually survive and do better because the poorly run competition gets wiped out as it should.

maybe more owners will be in their rooms to expand good will instead of never being there and having a minimum wage person that doesnt care one bit about the joint, and why should they.
 

JusticeNJ

Four Points/Steel Joints
Silver Member
I work in real estate and this looks bad. I doubt your average pool hall has enough cash on hand to just ride out a few months of no business. Especially if you're out here in the East Coast where rental rates are through the roof along with everything else.

That being said, landlords aren't excited to lose a bunch of tenants either. They've got mortgages and property taxes to worry about too. Not having a paying tenant is bad news. Plus, if you manage to evict a tenant right now, who are you going to fill the spot with? Unless its an "essential business," don't expect people to be beating down your door. It's also just harder to rent space in a building with a bunch of vacancies. No body wants to open up shop in some deserted building.

I'm hoping that the best path forward is a work out plan between landlord, tenant, and bank, maintaining existing relationships. I don't know how useful these SBA loans will be. When 2008 hit, I saw landlords offering "rent credits" so the amount of rent remained the same on the books, but let the tenant stay at a reduced rent, just to keep them in the space.

I'm not holding myself out as a guru here, but if anyone owns a pool hall and rents the space and is feeling anxious about their predicament, feel free to PM me.

Best of luck out there to everyone.
 
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MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i expect pool to take a huge dive
pool was hurting before and will be worse for the near future

the government spending will destroy the dollar and possibly the country

This was also said in 2009 after we bailed out the banks and were considering big stimulation.

when has even 1 government program worked ?

I think WW2, the interstate highway system, Social Security, Medicare, Income Taxes,...

they went to viet nam and can not explain why to this day

To test out our 1955-1965 military advancements.

they destroyed education

The teacher unions and NEA did not help

the prisons do no rehabilitate

This fall squarely on the backs of republicans.
But, to be fair, the rehabilitation in the 1970-1980s did not work so well, either.

for every 3dollars collected for social security one dollar has been paid out in benefits and the program is bankrupt

This is a congressional problem, for 50 years, congress raided SS funds to pay for other government "stuff". They knew all along that they would end up where we are today (lacking Corona virus situation.)

now they think spending money they don't have will cure things

The alternative is 70% of all (A L L) businesses close and 70%-85% unemployment.
Any business without 6-months of cash flow in a safe deposit box earning zero interest fill fail under the current situation. Approximately no business is in that situation.

We are faced with a situation where::

1) if we send people back to work to prevent a recession/depression, 1%-3% of the world population will simply die (D I E). {This may be a dramatic underestimation}

2) If we let the economic situation (idle factories, shelter at home) persist without doing anything, the Great Depression will look like a minor hick up in world GDP.

3) On the other hand, if we mortgage our future, we might be back on a level keel in a decade.

So, you get to pick door #1, door #2, or door #3.
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That being said, landlords aren't excited to lose a bunch of tenants either. They've got mortgages and property taxes to worry about too. Not having a paying tenant is bad news. Plus, if you manage to evict a tenant right now, who are you going to fill the spot with?

This is the problem with "leveraged financing".

Why does a 20 year old pool hall not (N O T) own its own building ?

Same reason a local gun store uses bank financing to put guns on the shelves so people can buy them with credit cards !! Where this fails in in these massive downturns where either the banking system freezes up (2008) or where the productivity of the world goes to 0.000 for several months.
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
This was also said in 2009 after we bailed out the banks and were considering big stimulation.



I think WW2, the interstate highway system, Social Security, Medicare, Income Taxes,...



To test out our 1955-1965 military advancements.



The teacher unions and NEA did not help



This fall squarely on the backs of republicans.
But, to be fair, the rehabilitation in the 1970-1980s did not work so well, either.



This is a congressional problem, for 50 years, congress raided SS funds to pay for other government "stuff". They knew all along that they would end up where we are today (lacking Corona virus situation.)



The alternative is 70% of all (A L L) businesses close and 70%-85% unemployment.
Any business without 6-months of cash flow in a safe deposit box earning zero interest fill fail under the current situation. Approximately no business is in that situation.

We are faced with a situation where::

1) if we send people back to work to prevent a recession/depression, 1%-3% of the world population will simply die (D I E). {This may be a dramatic underestimation}

2) If we let the economic situation (idle factories, shelter at home) persist without doing anything, the Great Depression will look like a minor hick up in world GDP.

3) On the other hand, if we mortgage our future, we might be back on a level keel in a decade.

So, you get to pick door #1, door #2, or door #3.


Excellent Post!

:)

TFT
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Sad to say that this thread poses a question that's not unreasonable.

The question posed, however, is one that pertains to all businesses. We are in a period in which, for many businesses, revenues have dried up in the presence of unavoidable costs, whether it is rents, leased equipment, utilities, salaries, loan interest, depreciation, etc., virtually nobody can fade all the costs. In addition, accounts receivable, generally viewed as highly liquid assets, will prove harder to collect than in the past.

Who will survive? On the surface, it would seem that only those that have put a lot of money away for a rainy day will, and, of course, such businesses are the best bets for survival. In fact, though, those with a winning business model will likely find a way out of the woods even if they are cash poor, because businesses with a winning track record of earnings will have easiest access to financing when these very thick economic clouds clear.

It is the marginally profitable and the unprofitable businesses that face possible extinction, a sad reality for so many. Those already on their last financial legs may find themselves unable to keep things going, and the marginally profitable may find themselves less and less financially sustainable.

I don't think pool halls are any different than any other small businesses in that they face the exact same challenges as all the others. In the end, the supply of pool halls will equal the demand for them, and if there will be a minor, or even major, transformation in the pool scene, when the smoke settles, I think the poolhall scene will provide what we who love pool require.
 
It's survival of the fittest. If you sit around waiting to get destroyed, you will be.

If the owner has resources, they will survive. Here's what I would do:

I would make sure I have enough credit to get me though to better times.

I would tell the landlord I'm on rent holiday until reopening. Period.

I would use this time to make repairs, remodel, updates, rethink my game plan, rework my menu's and business plan.

I would buy a couple of ball washer's and sanitize the tables and equipment when reopened and I would advertise that fact.

I would contact the SBA and see what loans and grants might be available.

I would pay very careful attention to the fiscal reliefs being provided small businesses though the government packages.

Great post.
 
its the slumlords type property owners who wont give them a chance during this time, they have no interst in covid19 or what it does to business and money, and they rather have it closed than let someone not pay even when closed by government rules. I knew this woman in manhattan, she kept an apartment closed in the upper east side for 3 years than give it less than 15K a month in rent. so she forwent couple hundred K in rent money income. who knows how they think. lets hope its not terrible

I will never understand these owners way of thinking. They would rather have the place sit empty then to make the rent affordable for a small business. My home pool hall sat empty for years after it closed down back in around the year 2000, because the landlord kept increasing the rent every year, until the pool hall eventually ran out of business.

In the end, he could not afford the $2,000 per month rent, for the pool hall.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Gold Member
Silver Member
The long term concern I have is this question:

Will we ever be the same again?

Will we shake hands, stand close when we talk, touch things without washing our hands? Hug? Kiss? Play pool? Touch screens?

Unfortunately, pool falls into the category of germy activities. We touch the cloth that hundreds of others have touched, the racks, and balls. We talk with friends in bars.

There will be those of us who will be more cautious than ever. Who wants even a simple, annoying common cold? Strep or the flu? Pink eye? Or the occasional Covid 19 that will still pop up long into the future.

Now that we are aware, what will we be?
 
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MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The long term concern I have is this question:

Will we ever be the same again?

My parents never forgot the conditions they lived through in the Great depression.

Will we shake hands, stand close when we talk, touch things without washing our hands? Hug? Kiss? Play pool? Touch screens?

Slowly over a decade, this stuff will return to (ahem) normal.

Unfortunately, pool falls into the category of germy activities. We touch the cloth that hundreds of others have touched, the racks, and balls. We talk with friends in bars.

Would you rather talk to enemies at the bar !!!

{Sorry, sarcastic mode flare up in progress.....}

There will be those of us who will be more cautious than ever. Who wants even a simple, annoying common cold? Strep or the flu? Pink eye? Or the occasional Covid 19 that will still pop up long into the future.

Now that we are aware, what will we be?

Nobody ever wanted to be sick--E V E R.

However, almost everybody wants to have what used to be normal human relations with way more than just family. The outgoing seem to need 20-200 rather close friends, the introverted may only need 5-20. But we all need more than what we find in our family at home.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
The long term concern I have is this question:

Will we ever be the same again?

Will we shake hands, stand close when we talk, touch things without washing our hands? Hug? Kiss? Play pool? Touch screens?

Unfortunately, pool falls into the category of germy activities. We touch the cloth that hundreds of others have touched, the racks, and balls. We talk with friends in bars.

There will be those of us who will be more cautious than ever. Who wants even a simple, annoying common cold? Strep or the flu? Pink eye? Or the occasional Covid 19 that will still pop up long into the future.

Now that we are aware, what will we be?

I believe the answer is "Yes" because the human race will adapt to the need for greater precaution and greater intervention in the area of vast biological threats.

If you go back to the fourteenth century, some were concerned, during and in the aftermath of the Black Plague, that the contaminated bodies of those that had died from plague posed an enormous threat to those that survived them, and they were right … but necessity is the mother of invention and in the wake of the black plague came the idea that even common people should be buried in boxes, now typically know as coffins, but even this came with a few problems. It was eventually determined that these boxes needed to be a few feet under ground so that animals could not dig them up. Man adapted, and found many more sanitary ways, and society survived, as did the people's way of life.

The aftermath of Corona is likely to have some kind of modern equivalent of this pattern, in which people better learn to eliminate or control the conventional, biological and chemical threats posed by the environment and surroundings without compromising their way of living.

Count me as an optimist.
 

3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Those with a shaky busi ess model trying to run it like its 1968 will likely die but if they were a solid business with food, bar and marketing they should come back just like any other sound entertainment venue.

Sent from the future.

Hope you're wrong about traditional pool rooms.
My basement will be the only carom table in town if you're right.
 

WildWing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most of the pool rooms will killed off with the no smoking laws and the recessions of 2000, 2001, and 2008. This one will not help, and yes, will kill off some more.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My home room is using the down time to remodel its bar.

Regrettably, many pool rooms exist on the financial edge and will undoubtably go under without the beneficence of the bank/landlord.

Lou Figueroa
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
I will never understand these owners way of thinking. They would rather have the place sit empty then to make the rent affordable for a small business. My home pool hall sat empty for years after it closed down back in around the year 2000, because the landlord kept increasing the rent every year, until the pool hall eventually ran out of business.

In the end, he could not afford the $2,000 per month rent, for the pool hall.

Question is valid but if the owner has a large portfolio of properties, it could not be a big deal to let one building sit empty, as a tax write off.

We have this NE cornor in Peoria everything that goes into this strip mall dies, of the 13 - 15 rental spaces 3 or 4 of the businesses are there over two years. I call it come & go mall.

Owner of property let's it go to CRAP, does not keep clean, pave asphalt, or seem to care. Apprently owner own like 100 of these properties around USA. This one apprently don't matter.

The other three corner strip mall property's thrive.
 
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