Williams... UPA... Rankings... What the?!?!

Gremlin,

I remember several months ago Yobagua decided to leave the forum. I'm sad to see you've made the same decision. There are a few of us that have gone toe to toe with you over several issues. Having a place to vent or discuss with others is what keeps people from doing physical damage to one another. Perhaps like Yobagua, you'll change your mind. Who will keep us informed of the day to day goings on of the fairer sex in pool? Someday, I hope to meet you. As I've told you in my PM's, I respect your positions, even if I disagree with them. Until tomorrow..... :(
 
I've just read most of this thread but not every word. I would like to add a small comment about my experience.

A while back I posted a thread politely asking how the UPA points sytem worked. I got various responses and some useful info, but the one thing that was not explained was how the points system worked. It was suggested that I contact the UPA via email which I did. After several weeks I had not received a reply so I posted again on the forum. A while later I got a very short email from the UPA suggesting I give them a call. Nothing wrong with that except that I'm currently based in Australia and I would have appreciated an explanation via email. Now I have no axe to grind or any history with anyone involved with the UPA, I simply asked for what I consider to be basic standard info about the tour.

Firstly I would expect this info to be published on the website?

Secondly if not I would have thought this info would have been lying around in a document somewhere ready to be emailed to any eager new member?

The fact that this info is so elusive, rightly or wrongly invites suspicion.

This is the only tour I have come across that doesn't publish its points system on its website, why is this? Yes you can't please everyone and obviously some people will never like the UPA. But as an outsider looking in you could do a lot worse than publish your points system ASAP!
 
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what's the point?

wrong or right i've sent a few emails to the upa regarding different issues. obviously they are busy and I somehow doubt they have a whole staff waiting for our emails. the best i can say is call them. in fact, that's what you say they do. from what i know, the point system is simple. it's based on the bracket and how far you get in it. the number one spot gets 100 points and it breaks down from there.

i think the part that i don't buy is that people on this forum don't understand the facts, granted maybe the upa is still catching up to people's requests, but it seems that people always somehow to the conclusion that the upa is somehow "suspect." why can't the conclusion be that the upa dealing with other squeky wheels and they are just catching up to themelves?

why do you always assume the negative for the upa? instead of the lack of info, and that's all it is, "inviting suspicion." why can't it be more like,

the upa responded that you give them a call and you want to save a dime. it's obvious that people know the point system, and it's not secret information.

how about this, send them an email that says to put the info on the website, and see what they say. better yet, i'll do just that.

i'll copy and past their response so that you haters can come up with something new.
 
Cuteone said:
wrong or right i've sent a few emails to the upa regarding different issues. obviously they are busy and I somehow doubt they have a whole staff waiting for our emails. the best i can say is call them. in fact, that's what you say they do. from what i know, the point system is simple. it's based on the bracket and how far you get in it. the number one spot gets 100 points and it breaks down from there.

i think the part that i don't buy is that people on this forum don't understand the facts, granted maybe the upa is still catching up to people's requests, but it seems that people always somehow to the conclusion that the upa is somehow "suspect." why can't the conclusion be that the upa dealing with other squeky wheels and they are just catching up to themelves?

why do you always assume the negative for the upa? instead of the lack of info, and that's all it is, "inviting suspicion." why can't it be more like,

the upa responded that you give them a call and you want to save a dime. it's obvious that people know the point system, and it's not secret information.

how about this, send them an email that says to put the info on the website, and see what they say. better yet, i'll do just that.

i'll copy and past their response so that you haters can come up with something new.
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I think that would be a great start, looking in as a neutral the fact that they don't publish this info certainly warrants a little suspicion. Being the only tour that I know that doesn't do this adds weight to this. Asking me to call them instead of email me a "hard copy" again adds to this (it would have taken two seconds to attach the relevant info to the email they sent me).

Let me say again I am merly passing on my experience as I wanted to find out for myself and NOT judge them on other peoples experience. In my book, "They're too busy" and "give them a call" just doesn't wash when it comes to certain infomation, especially when they have had a website for some time, and have just rebuilt it! They are a professional organisation after all.

If I was building a pool tour website one of the first things I would list that needs to go on the site would be how the ranking system works (but then I buld websites for a living). The fact that this this is not on the site, like it or not, invites suspicion.
 
Well, not that I am a UPA hater but any organization that is billing itself as "the governing body of men's professional pool" ought ot have someone on staff who could respond to relevant questions in a timely manner through email. It is also NOT a huge deal to put it up on the website. The fact is that the "UPA" does NOT respond to phone calls or emails in any kind of consistent or timely manner. I don't know if other professional organizations handle their business that way but I would hope not.

I also find that it is super pretentious of the UPA to not allow any women who want to, to play on thier tour. Yeah, I understand that the men cannot play on the women's tour. I do think that if a woman were to agree not to play on the women's tour then the UPA should allow her to play on theirs. The UPA allows handicapped (wheelchair) player to play in their events even though the able-bodied members of the UPA are not allowed to play in the wheelchair events on the NWBA tour. Thus they are guilty of promoting a double standard.

John
 
onepocketchump said:
I also find that it is super pretentious of the UPA to not allow any women who want to, to play on thier tour. Yeah, I understand that the men cannot play on the women's tour. I do think that if a woman were to agree not to play on the women's tour then the UPA should allow her to play on theirs.
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I didn't know women were excluded from the UPA, but it is billed as the "governing body of men's professional pool," as you so rightly point out.

The women's "governing body of women's professional pool," or the WPBA, has been in existence longer than the UPA and seems to have successfully marketed and entered the broadcast arena as well as maintain contact with its members on a consistent basis. Their website is extremely well done and provides the necessary information needed. The players' bios are intriguing and a plus.
 
cardiac kid said:
Incidently, Gremlin may recognize my "handle". I can get out of the first round of a professional event without a bye. Making the top thirty two at the DCC nine ball will attest to that.
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ROTFLMAO! Those buy-backs sure do come in handy! :D
 
cardiac kid said:
Last year, Keith Mcready almost won the US Open sponsored by Budweiser. In a lighter moment, I suggested that as a "part owner" of "Bud", he would be a perfect candidate to appear in their advertising. That is one problem facing both corporate America and the billiard world. Another is flagrent illegal drug use by some competitors to improve or create their performance. One single arrest. Not even a conviction, would send most of the sponsors packing again. I haven't even got to cutting up backers or throwing matches.
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What you did was in a lighter moment say Keith is bad for the sport. I have nothing against you Cardiac Kid, but that was way out of line, like a slap in the face to Keith, especially since he posts here. That is basically like trying to embarass him, but saying it in such a tone as if you have "the right to do that" because you have such a sophisticated opinion about the game. Again, no offense to you, but I think you owe him an apology.
 
[I certainly understand what you are saying. I'm tickled to
death when you respond to one of my posts. Some people
think when a well known name responds that makes them
familiar with them. It's an ego thing. Please continue to
post. I have always enjoyed your contributions. Plus, it
makes me feel a little more a part of the pool community.



QUOTE=Keith McCready]I'm not hiding from my past, whether mine is more colorful than yours or not.

I post on AzBilliards Discussion Forum to interact with fans, players, and others who have a passion for the game, like I do. I still enjoy the game myself. So what little years I do have left in my playing capabilities, I'm hoping to still be able to enjoy them, without getting nitpicked by a guy I don't even know.

I don't believe you've been where I've been, not saying you would want to be either. There's been a lot of fun times and there's been a lot of sad times, but I still wouldn't trade it for nothing. This isn't the first time I've answered a post by you relating to me, but I am glad to know it is the last. Maybe we can get back to discussing pool and give these readers something better to read about.[/QUOTE]
 
opinions are like ....

for the most part all this boils down to opinions. just seems to me that everyone thinks their opinion is the way to go. you act like the upa is trying to hide rankings from the public. give it a break already. then someone sqawks in about women being on the upa? compares it to wheelchair players? to compare the issue of men and women to handicap issues should be more of a thread on relevent issues. guys, get off the internet and go play some pool.
 
Cuteone said:
for the most part all this boils down to opinions. just seems to me that everyone thinks their opinion is the way to go. you act like the upa is trying to hide rankings from the public. give it a break already. then someone sqawks in about women being on the upa? compares it to wheelchair players? to compare the issue of men and women to handicap issues should be more of a thread on relevent issues. guys, get off the internet and go play some pool.
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Gremlin, only you would make an alias pretending to be female.
 
let's not get any more silly with the crap than what you arlready have. Gremlin don't even respond to them not accepting the fact that there are at least two right thinking adults on this forum.

i'm just a girl
 
drivermaker said:
Ssssay ssssavage, who says being a "cuteone" is necessarily a female?
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LOL you're right, I forgot that when girls are attracted to guys most of them say that he is "cute".
 
Cuteone said:
...specifially my fav alvarez.
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You're in good company, Cuteone! My girlfriend says Frankie Alvarez is "cute" as well! ;)

Looking forward to hearing about the World Summit of Pool in New York City the end of this month! :)
 

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Cuteone said:
let's not get any more silly with the crap than what you arlready have. Gremlin don't even respond to them not accepting the fact that there are at least two right thinking adults on this forum.

i'm just a girl
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Well if you really arent Gremlin, then my apologies, but I find it funny that you often show up in threads that he is in and always agree with him and call everyone else dummies.

So please tell me, how do you know what is "right thinking"? How can you be right and everyone else be wrong, when everyone else thinks they are right? It's all a matter of opinion. Unfortunately it is very rare that you will find someone, even a "right thinking adult" that will admit that they are wrong after recieving new information that proves that they are "wrong".

You know what bothers me are those TV shows and movies when people argue, it's so dumb. Two people get into a heated argument, and suddenly one person makes this incredible point, the music stops, and the person who won the argument walks away. The other person just stands there, with a look of shock and awe on their face, and soft music starts playing. It's like they are trying to say, "wow, you so proved me wrong, I bow before you". Well that is just bullcrap. Arguments don't end like that, they go on and on and on, people keep cutting each other off and never get to finish a sentence. I suppose many people think that they can win arguments like this, and they are puzzled when it doesn't happen. Well I've just explained why. Sorry I got carried away :D
 
Gremlin said:
"If you want to do something for pool sponsor a pool player" ("Gremlin")
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Yes, sponsor a pool player cuteone, but don't go stalking the WPBA players like Gremlin does. I'm not joking about Gremlin either.
 
I don't know Gremlin but from seeing this thread and reading his nonstop obsessive comments about the WPBA, it's safe to say I don't feel a need too.
 
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