Williams... UPA... Rankings... What the?!?!

[Billiard Architect]

Is there a chart of UPA Sanctioned Event Point Breakdown/Distribution? I was curious because I wondered who would be considered for the Mosconi Cup and I see Charlie Williams name in third place? How is this possible? I haven't seen him winning in a while. I have seen Alex P, Tony Robles and Jeremy Jones who are all ranked below CW. So how does the point system work? How is it possible that he gets killed in the Super Billiards Expo, leveled in the BCA Open and ties for 17th-24th in the Master Billiard 9-Ball Challenge (Big Apple Challenge) (all UPA Sanctioned Events) and still ends up with a 3rd place ranking?

Something smells fishy IMO...

Johnny "V"

 

[Billiard Architect]

Something smells fishy????? Take some Altoids for your bad breath.
Try understanding the ranking system before trying to slam Charlie.

Thank you for you hygiene suggestion...

I don't think I was slamming Charlie Williams, I think (I could be wrong) I was asking about the point system for the UPA and how they get distributed. So going with what you said they went by the seeding until August when the third event was played?

Again I ask what was the basis of the seeded ranking if it is based on the last 10 events. How is it possible that someone that had their ass handed to them in 4 events (including the mosconi cup) could be ranked third. You could insert any name in the third position I could care less. I want to know if there is a list of UPA events and the point distribution presented on the internet because I think the seeded list may be incorrect. (not Charlies fault)

 

[Pelican]

Hey Grem, you do have to admit it sometimes appears that some folks are over ranked.

Just my two bits worth, later, Pel

 

[Williebetmore]

it sometimes appears that some folks are over ranked. Pel

What do you mean by that?

Signed,
Anna Kournikova

 

[Cuteone]

upa new site?

fact of the matter is that mosconi cup asked for ranking list after upa big apple event. mosconi cup is for top u.s. from upa ranking list. parica is not considered u.s. he does not get u.s. invites as he in not a citizen of u.s.

at least don't assume that your ignorance means that the upa is somehow wrong or crooked.

once again, i argue that it would be easier for to call the damn number on the site and ask as opposed to log on a faceless forum and talk about things you don't really understand and all the while infer that someone else is wrong or misleading.

ps. Gremlin did you see the new upa site?

 

[fluidstroke]

Gabe played in the Atlanta event.

 

[Pelican]

What do you mean by that?

Signed,
Anna Kournikova

Just that.

Signed,
Jeff Gordon

 

[Billiard Architect]

once again, i argue that it would be easier for to call the damn number on the site and ask as opposed to log on a faceless forum and talk about things you don't really understand and all the while infer that someone else is wrong or misleading.

You know as well as I do that calling the number would do me no good. Basically it is their rules and that is fine. I just don't agree with them. (the same as some of the pro players). I guess I can bring the question up again when people that are ranked 22nd are playing in the Mosconi Cup. (if it doesn't happen I will be surprised and I will be the first to eat crow.)

 

[jer9ball]

Not sure if I'm off topic or not...but Alex is Canadian and so he can't play in the Mosconi cup. Isn't the Mosconi cup for US vs Europe?

 

[sjm]

Not sure if I'm off topic or not...but Alex is Canadian and so he can't play in the Mosconi cup. Isn't the Mosconi cup for US vs Europe?

You are correct. Alex would be ineligible.

 

[manlyshot]

You are correct. Alex would be ineligible.

And so is every single UPA member who was not invited to the last BCA Open, other than the 32 chosen ones. Danny Basavich, a UPA member, didn't receive his UPA ranking points, even though he was eligible and ranked in the top 32.

As per the UPA website: "UPA professionals will want to gain ranking points by attending the event. Rankings are important for invitational events such as The World Championships, All-Japan Open, Mosconi Cup Team .... etc. ).

Players will want attend to improve or hold their seeding status by attending all UPA Sanctioned Events.

When a UPA sanctioned event is limited to 32 players on a tour with only six tournaments, the idea of improving or holding seeding status is a joke.

 

[JustPlay]

Could someone on this forum please tell me when Charlie William's UPA became the governing body for the Mosconi Cup? Gabe Owen can not be on the Mosconi Cup because the US Open is not sanctioned by the UPA and is boycotted by the UPA (even though Gabe should be on the Mosconi Cup Team).

 

[manlyshot]

Could someone on this forum please tell me when Charlie William's UPA became the governing body for the Mosconi Cup? Gabe Owen can not be on the Mosconi Cup because the US Open is not sanctioned by the UPA and is boycotted by the UPA (even though Gabe should be on the Mosconi Cup Team).

Industry members and powers-that-be at the BCA granted "Charlie Williams' UPA", a newly formed men's professional pool organization with less than a year's track record, the right to be the governing body in an effort to promote the sport via high-profile events such as the Mosconi Cup, WPC, and lucrative overseas tournaments.

Robert Lipson is the current president of the UPA. The upcoming World Summit of Pool to be held at Grand Central Station, NYC, held on the exact same days as a tournament in Saudi Arabia as it was last year, looks like it is going to be a huge success, even though Efren Reyes and Francisco Bustamante will not be in attendance and have committed to the 8-ball tournament in Dubai.

To his credit, Charlie Williams' Dragon Promotions is keeping the current UPA Tour alive by devoting necessary resources to the majority of the upcoming scheduled events. It must be difficult for him to keep the UPA ball rolling, handling the preparations, meeting logistical deadlines, administrate, and then have to compete with the other UPA Touring Pros, some of the best players in the world.

 

[Luke Riches]

Could someone on this forum please tell me when Charlie William's UPA became the governing body for the Mosconi Cup? Gabe Owen can not be on the Mosconi Cup because the US Open is not sanctioned by the UPA and is boycotted by the UPA (even though Gabe should be on the Mosconi Cup Team).

The UPA is not the governing body of the Mosconi Cup. As the event's promoter we have granted the UPA four spots in the six man USA team.

They give these to the top four players on their Seeding Rankings on a designated date. The other two players are selected by ourselves based on various factors including performances in major events.

These additional two players are not obliged to have any connection with the UPA.

Although the UPA do not sanction the US Open, I don't believe that it was 'boycotted' by the UPA as with one or two exceptions, almost all the players on their ranking lists participated.

I hope this clears this up.


Luke Riches
Matchroom Sport

 

[tom haney]

Hey Grem, you do have to admit it sometimes appears that some folks are over ranked.

Just my two bits worth, later, Pel

What do you mean by that? signed Roy Jones Jr.

 

[cardiac kid]

justplay,

There are two simple reasons why Gabe Owen will not be on the Mosconi Cup team this year.

One, he has too few UPA ranking points to get him involved. In Golf, the Ryder Cup is equivalent. Winning the Masters or the US Open will not get you on the team. It's consistancy over a year or more play, not the results of one event. Also look at the list of professional pool players used by the BCA. Gabe is not listed!

Second, Gabe may not have signed a UPA player contract. Without one, he'll never be ranked. He then must compete with Earl and other non UPA members for the two available slots for American players. Perhaps it's not politically correct or a popular way of choosing players but its the way Luke Riches has chosen to promote his event. You might ask him how the European team is chosen.

 

[Luke Riches]

justplay,

There are two simple reasons why Gabe Owen will not be on the Mosconi Cup team this year.

One, he has too few UPA ranking points to get him involved. In Golf, the Ryder Cup is equivalent. Winning the Masters or the US Open will not get you on the team. It's consistancy over a year or more play, not the results of one event. Also look at the list of professional pool players used by the BCA. Gabe is not listed!

Second, Gabe may not have signed a UPA player contract. Without one, he'll never be ranked. He then must compete with Earl and other non UPA members for the two available slots for American players. Perhaps it's not politically correct or a popular way of choosing players but its the way Luke Riches has chosen to promote his event. You might ask him how the European team is chosen.

As I mentioned above, we take the top four players from the UPA Seeding Ranking and then nominate two other players as we see fit.

To reiterate: those two players do not need to have any connection with the UPA whatsoever. Neither do they need to have signed a UPA player contract.

I think that is clear enough.

With the case of the European Team, our agreement with the WPA / EPBF says that we will take the No.1 player ranked on the Euro Tour on a certain designated date and then three players who are ranked within the Top 16 of the Euro Tour rankings.

The other two players are players we feel will add to the event through their achievements and ability. These two do not have to hold a Euro Tour ranking.


Luke

 

[berry]

there are 6 players and only 4 will be picked by the UPA and two will be picked by Matchroom......... (see post Luke)

We both responded at the same time.................. LOL

 

[Billiard Architect]

So are they going to use the seeding or the calendar rankings to select the 4 players? Luke when was the invite? If it was before the Big Apple then I would assume by the ranking rules that they will use the Seeding instead of the Calendar because only two sanctioned events had been played.

Again I ask what justifies the seeding ranking? You may call it ignorance if you like but no one has been able to prove that the seeding rankings reflect anything other prefered status.

 

[cardiac kid]

As I mentioned above, we take the top four players from the UPA Seeding Ranking and then nominate two other players as we see fit. To reiterate: those two players do not need to have any connection with the UPA whatsoever. Neither do they need to have signed a UPA player contract. I think that is clear enough.

Luke,

Thanks for the re-post. I understand your point. As a UPA member, I was merely attempting to clarify a point from the American view. As in past years, you have chosen to add Earl to the American team for obvious reasons. He is a great player and a crowd draw. Justplay feels that Gabe Owen should be added to the team based on the results of one tournament. If you feel that qualifies him to represent the best of what America offers, that is your decision and yours alone. Regardless of the controversy here, thanks for helping to make the game of pocket billiards more visible. I wish we had someone like yourself to promote the game on our shore.