Williams... UPA... Rankings... What the?!?!
- Thread starter Billiard Architect
- Start date
Gremlin said:cuteone,
Just read this thread now! Manley Shot, Celtic, Johnny "V". The over the hill gang trying to impose there narrow minded, out dated ideas in a billiard forum.
Manley shot doesn't play well enough to get out of the first round without a bye. Celtic and Johnny "V" never heard of them? Cardiac, Luke, Pelican, sjm and cuteone are the only members I recognize in this thread.
This is just another time consuming lecture by "Manleyshot" and "Celtic" on their ideas about pool. A couple of do nothings. What have you done for pool?
Charlie Williams has done for pool, just a small list below.
1. Charlie Williams founded the UPA.
2. Charlie Williams was elected the first president of the UPA.
3. Charlie Williams resigned as president of the UPA 1/1/04.
4. Charlie Williams operates Dragon Productions and promotes pool.
5. Charlie Williams is the Player Rep. for Brunswick Billiards.
6. Charlie Williams has started the Brunswick Billiards Korean Tour.
7. Charlie Williams supports the Boys and Girls Clubs of America.
8. Charlie Williams is a nice person. LOL
9. Charlie Williams recognizes the entertainment value of having women play
pool.
10. My God son will be reading Charlie's name on a plaque in the BCA Hall of fame some day.
11. Charlie Williams plays pool well enough to be a threat to any pro he plays.
12. Charlie Williams is a BCA 9-Ball Champion.
Hell, I could go on until I run out of space but I won't.
Cheers,
"Gremlin"
Hey Gremie: I am beginning to get the impression you like Charlie
Later, Pel
Gremlin said:Charlie Williams has done for pool, just a small list below.
1. Charlie Williams founded the UPA.
2. Charlie Williams was elected the first president of the UPA.
3. Charlie Williams resigned as president of the UPA 1/1/04.
4. Charlie Williams operates Dragon Productions and promotes pool.
5. Charlie Williams is the Player Rep. for Brunswick Billiards.
6. Charlie Williams has started the Brunswick Billiards Korean Tour.
7. Charlie Williams supports the Boys and Girls Clubs of America.
8. Charlie Williams is a nice person. LOL
9. Charlie Williams recognizes the entertainment value of having women play
pool.
10. My God son will be reading Charlie's name on a plaque in the BCA Hall of fame some day.
11. Charlie Williams plays pool well enough to be a threat to any pro he plays.
12. Charlie Williams is a BCA 9-Ball Champion.
Hell, I could go on until I run out of space but I won't.
Cheers,
"Gremlin"
Excellent post on Charlie Williams, Gremlin. I'm sure that, just like me, you and Charlie would probably be willing to concede that he has made a mistake or two along the way. Also, nobody would deny that there will always be some conflicts of interest when a player rather than a businessperson runs the show in pool. I wouldn't call myself a big Charlie Williams advocate, but the bigger picture is that Charlie has done and continues to do a lot for our game.
One constant in the history of men's pool is that seemingly every player that has taken the initiative to try to better their sport by participating in the formation and sustaining of a new tour has been controversial and has had to withstand a lot of undeserved abuse.
Ask a Ray Martin, Pete Margo, Allen Hopkins, and other founders, about the controversial formation and subsequent administration of the PPPA in the 1970's. Ask CJ Wiley about the formation and subsequent administration of the PCA in the 1990's. They'll all tell you they had to listen to a lot of crap in the early days.
For some reason, the men have, all too often, failed to show admiration for and respect to players that have taken the initiative to form new tours to try to better their sport, despite the fact that each has created income opportunities in the game.
I have complete respect for those on this forum that, very knowledgeably, choose to take exception to certain aspects of the administration of the pro game, which sometimes means taking shots at the UPA and its operations. I believe that the scrutiny of the pro game on the forum is constructive, serving the good of the game.
Still, we all need to take a step back and take a look at the bigger picture. Charlie, just like Ray Martin, Pete Margo, Allen Hopkins, and CJ Wiley before him, is a pool visionary with a great work ethic and commitment to the game. We can only hope that a few more like him come along at some point.
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drivermaker
Banned
sjm said:
SJM...as usual that was a very articulate and well thought out post. However, I'm not sure about the above statement regarding Charlie and Cuteone. I think if Charlie just said as much for all to hear, that there wouldn't be so much animosity coming from all different directions. When you start something new and take the bull by the horns, there are bound to be mistakes and a few toes stepped on. But I think if Charlie said, "hey...in trying to get this up and running the best I know how, which wasn't always the best, I fucked up a few times here and there but I did my damndest and at least it's still going" that would have humanized him and a lot would have been forgiven. But the impression that he throws off to most is that he's an obnoxious Napoleanic little prick with an ego as large as the Milky Way and he could give a rat's ass less about what anyone else thinks. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I've been to UPA events myself and he's at the front table handling things and interacting with patrons coming in, as well as his female assistant, I can't say that there was anything very endearing about him. Sure, he's a one man show as well as a player in the event with a lot on the table, but it's about friendliness and personality too and that's not projected, not there nor anywhere else down through the troops.
Gremlin said:
Gremlin, you are correct about this, and yet I still think the debate can serve a purpose because I am of the opinion that some of the true powerbrokers in our sport read the posts on our forum. Some of them, such as Luke Riches of Matchroom, engage in online conversations with members of the forum, and, in doing so, express enthusiasm and appreciation for some of the ideas presented by those who post. I'm quite sure many other decision makers in the pool business read, and are influenced by, some of the posts on the forum.
You are absolutely right, though, nothing will be settled on the forum, and yet, the free exchange of ideas can serve the greater purpose if those who post do so constructively and with vision.
Perhaps I'm just an idealist.
sjm said:
I agree with you. The free exchange of ideas through debate on this forum can push people to new measures in our sport. Actually someone else said it better than me.
There is a continual exchange of ideas between all minds of a generation. Journalists, popular novelists, illustrators, and cartoonists adapt the truths discovered by the powerful intellects for the multitude. It is like a spiritual flood, like a gush that pours into multiple cascades until it forms the great moving sheet of water that stands for the mentality of a period. Auguste Rodin (1849–1917
Well seeing how Gremlin ignored me, I am free to talk about him as I please. Johnny V started this thread with a legitimate question about the UPA and these are just a few of the friendly comments Gremlin had to say;
"Something smells fishy????? Take some Altoids for your bad breath.
Try understanding the ranking system before trying to slam Charlie."
"Just read this thread now! Manley Shot, Celtic, Johnny "V". The over the hill gang trying to impose there narrow minded, out dated ideas in a billiard forum.
"Manley shot doesn't play well enough to get out of the first round without a bye. Celtic and Johnny "V" never heard of them?"
"A couple of do nothings."
"bunch of crackpots in a billiard forum."
"They are nothing but old bar flies obsessed typing fabrications"
"They are all on my "ignorant" list now"
I am really disappointed that we will not have the pleasure of his friendly intellectually stimulating comments as much anymore. His constant obsessive talking about the WPBA is what gets me through the day. His many contributions to this forum will be sorely missed.
"Something smells fishy????? Take some Altoids for your bad breath.
Try understanding the ranking system before trying to slam Charlie."
"Just read this thread now! Manley Shot, Celtic, Johnny "V". The over the hill gang trying to impose there narrow minded, out dated ideas in a billiard forum.
"Manley shot doesn't play well enough to get out of the first round without a bye. Celtic and Johnny "V" never heard of them?"
"A couple of do nothings."
"bunch of crackpots in a billiard forum."
"They are nothing but old bar flies obsessed typing fabrications"
"They are all on my "ignorant" list now"
I am really disappointed that we will not have the pleasure of his friendly intellectually stimulating comments as much anymore. His constant obsessive talking about the WPBA is what gets me through the day. His many contributions to this forum will be sorely missed.
If the UPA put forth as much effort as Cuetone in getting their message out, this thread most likely would never have even been initiated. Cuetone has provided more information than the UPA web site has to date. There are UPA members who paid their membership fees and never heard from the UPA again until renewal time. Should they have picked up the phone and called the UPA and said, "Hey, remember me?"
The UPA ranking system should have been available for all to see, whether on the UPA web site or in print. The lack thereof should not necessitate a member to rely on the telephone to keep up with the happenings of "the governing body of men's professional pool," as they bill themselves. A member of any organization should be kept informed by the administration.
A fair and equitable ranking system is needed, but this ranking system utilized by the UPA to date is flawed, leaving aside the self serving contract, code of conduct, and whether you like or dislike Charlie Williams.
If the results of the current UPA ranking system is taken into consideration as a means of a selection criteria for next year's BCA and WPC, as the UPA tour currently sits, only the 32 UPA members who were selected by the UPA to attend the BCA Open will be qualified for next year's WPC, BCA, and other tournaments like it, as it makes up a large percentage of the ranking points on the current six tournament UPA tour. Once again, therein lies the inequity.
The UPA ranking system should have been available for all to see, whether on the UPA web site or in print. The lack thereof should not necessitate a member to rely on the telephone to keep up with the happenings of "the governing body of men's professional pool," as they bill themselves. A member of any organization should be kept informed by the administration.
A fair and equitable ranking system is needed, but this ranking system utilized by the UPA to date is flawed, leaving aside the self serving contract, code of conduct, and whether you like or dislike Charlie Williams.
If the results of the current UPA ranking system is taken into consideration as a means of a selection criteria for next year's BCA and WPC, as the UPA tour currently sits, only the 32 UPA members who were selected by the UPA to attend the BCA Open will be qualified for next year's WPC, BCA, and other tournaments like it, as it makes up a large percentage of the ranking points on the current six tournament UPA tour. Once again, therein lies the inequity.
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drivermaker
Banned
Gremlin said:You can't be typing about: drivermaker, JustPlay, DeadPoked, LastTwo, and TATE. They are nothing but old bar flies obsessed typing fabrications in a forum so they can sit around holding on to their computer mouse while they laugh. They are all on my "ignorant" list now.
"Gremlin"
At least I made the top of the list...the rest of you guys are just going to have to try harder.
I resent being called an old bar fly...I haven't been to a bar in years. LastTwo could be a bar fly, I have no idea, but he is young, so that's incorrect.
I do laugh a lot, especially at he erudite posts of "Sir" Gremlin.
"Ignorant" list is fine..."Shit" lists are another story, although sometimes that can be just as good if it belongs to a gremlin, a gnome, elf, or fairy.
drivermaker said:
I don't really drink much, especially now that school is back in session. The only time I'll have a beer is when I eat fish- sushi or fried.
I don't understand how we are "barflys" when Gremlin admits that he drinks half a bottle of Crown Royal everytime he goes online. Oh wait, he drinks it at home, so I guess that makes him a homefly? Nah, just an alcoholic.
In case you guys are curious why Gremlin tends to act like a cranky snob all the time, it's because not many people like him in real life. Many of the WPBA players talk trash about him, and he hears it, but pretends to ignore it. He acts like he is such a huge fan of all them, but in reality, he annoys them. A couple of them have told me that he "stalks" them, and it kind of creeps them out. Pretty sad, huh?
drivermaker
Banned
DeadPoked said:drivermaker I'm glad to see your proud to top the list of ignorant bad breath over the hill do nothings narrow minded out dated ideas crackpot old bar flies.
I actually think he was trying to do it in alpha order which should have had you first, but he was too soused to figure it out and botched our names. That's o.k., I'll take first for now.
manly dot
somehow I doubt the upa is worried about getting information out to 13 people on this forum. 5 of which who are going to complain about one thing if not another. obviously not everyone in the upa feels the way you do, and obviously large companies don't have the problem with them you seem to have.
you keep on sharing your frustrations on this forum, don't practice, and don't get anywhere in the sport you love. the upa is definately better off without someone like you as a member any way.
thanks for the pics gremlin and kieth.
somehow I doubt the upa is worried about getting information out to 13 people on this forum. 5 of which who are going to complain about one thing if not another. obviously not everyone in the upa feels the way you do, and obviously large companies don't have the problem with them you seem to have.
you keep on sharing your frustrations on this forum, don't practice, and don't get anywhere in the sport you love. the upa is definately better off without someone like you as a member any way.
thanks for the pics gremlin and kieth.
Cuteone said:
Looking at the UPA track record, it is evident that the UPA isn't worried about getting information out to 13 people on this forum and the 5 of which who are going to complain about an unfair, inequitable, and faulty ranking system.
Cuteone said:
This is exactly the climate of the current UPA. If you have an aspiration to be a professional pool player and play in major tournaments around the world, join the UPA and become member, sign a legally binding contract that only serves the UPA, pay the dues, and, of course, "don't call us, we'll call you." The communication has been nonexistent, with the exception of the Cuetone. If you feel you have been forgotten as a UPA member and left out of the loop, then according to Cuetone, the UPA is better off without you.
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manlyshot said:
Instead of complaining about everything from the outside, Why don't you join the UPA and help fix the things you find wrong. Too much effort? Not enough time? What's the problem?
cardiac kid said:Instead of complaining about everything from the outside, Why don't you join the UPA and help fix the things you find wrong. Too much effort? Not enough time? What's the problem?
Cardiac Kid, this is a constant theme with you and, quite frankly, doesn't make a bit of sense.
If I give my money to an organization that bills itself as the "governing body of men's professional pool," I place my trust in this organization to delivery on its mission. To date, the UPA has ignored its membership, as expressed by several UPA members on this forum.
If I were to join a laborers union, as an example, and I never heard from them again after they took my monies, never received any of the promised benefits after signing a self serving legally binding contract, are you suggesting that I should go out and form my own laborers union because I feel like I got ripped off?
It was the union who asked me to be a member. This is how a union works, in unison, and the organization who controls the union has a duty to deliver to its membership in return for this unison. To suggest that I should create another union because I am not content is crazy. This is what you are suggesting, Cardiac Kid.
I do not wish the UPA to fail. If anything, men's professional pool is sorely in need of a platform to launch a campaign to promote the sport here in the United States.
Let's not forget the faulty ranking system that only benefits a few UPA members at the top and ensures their high-ranking positions in the future to attend the next BCA, WPC, and other tournaments like these. Every single UPA member who did not attend the last BCA Open is deprived of the benefits of being a UPA member since this tournament accounts for one-sixth of the total ranking points in the season. Capisce?
The current ranking system that exists is flawed and needs to be overhauled or done away with altogether. It is unfair, not equitable, and is a travesty. Whoever gave the UPA, a men's organization with less than a year's track record, the authority to be the governing body and utilize a ranking system with only six tournaments on a tour should have their head examined, but from what I understand, those persons are no longer responsible for this bad judgment.
The BCA Open should not have been a tournament where UPA members acquire ranking points since it was limited to only 32 players. It is unfair to every other UPA member who did not attend the BCA, considering it accounts for a sixth of the ranking points one can acquire in the current UPA Tour.
Cuetone's response is very typical of the current theme at the UPA. To expect its membership to pick up a phone to inquire about any matter is not the way most businesses are run, especially an organization that is the governing body of men's pool. This is what will in the end destroy the current UPA, unless they express a different attitude.
I know of at least eight people that I have personally spoken to, previous UPA members, who did not renew their membership because of this very reason. I am sure there are others out there. The current UPA is not representative of men's professional pool in the United States and never will be if it takes on the attitude of Cuetone's.
Since the professional pool players are a very small minority of the public, the UPA may think it can get away with this injustice. I hope not. For your sake, Cardiac Kid, I hope they take a turn for the better, see the error of their ways, and make a positive change, to begin with the flawed ranking system that only benefits a few. The communication is getting better with the new web site, but if I were the UPA, I would not have Cuetone being its mouthpiece in this forum. It reflects negatively on the UPA.
Manlyshot,
It is a constant theme from me! You complain about the UPA in General or Charlie Williams specifically. If they fix one thing, you move and complain about another. Your constant theme appears to be complaining about the UPA. If they are so bad, why are all the best players members? Why did Corey, Frankie and the rest of your "wronged" group join and sign? I joined. Why don't you? I'm certainly no threat to win a UPA event. I guess you aren't either. I don't even fulfill the dictionary description of "professional". I have ideas. So do you. Why waste your energy complaining when they, according to you, obviously need help. I'm sure Robert Lipson and the BOD would be thrilled to have another set of helping hands. And your voice.
It is a constant theme from me! You complain about the UPA in General or Charlie Williams specifically. If they fix one thing, you move and complain about another. Your constant theme appears to be complaining about the UPA. If they are so bad, why are all the best players members? Why did Corey, Frankie and the rest of your "wronged" group join and sign? I joined. Why don't you? I'm certainly no threat to win a UPA event. I guess you aren't either. I don't even fulfill the dictionary description of "professional". I have ideas. So do you. Why waste your energy complaining when they, according to you, obviously need help. I'm sure Robert Lipson and the BOD would be thrilled to have another set of helping hands. And your voice.
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