Women and pool

Mr. Wilson said:
Ok, don't flame me too bad :)

For the life of me, I can't understand why....... at the professional level..... there needs to be a separate division for women.

Dave
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So that accomplished women players who cannot (by skill) compete against the men on a regular basis have a place to compete heavily. I don't understand why this question comes up so much. In the present state of skill sets, if we had no women's tour, we'd have very few women professionals. Is that what we're after?

As of this writing, the professional women can play in Viking Tour events, Joss Tour, SE 9-ball tour etc. I have no idea whether or not they can participate in the UPA sanctioned events. But, let's be real about it. They need their own tour to be able to grow their side of the sport as well as grow their talent.

They have been free to play in the Derby City Classic, the greates stomping ground of skill for pool.

On the amateur side, without a women's division, several of these excellent female players would never have a chance at competing let alone winning and gaining national exposure, tournament titles, and all the benefits that come with it. Do you really think we should shut that avenue down? Is that what you're asking? Or do you just want to see how some of the top women stack up against the men?

Fred
 
Williebetmore said:
LS77,
You know I'm a big fan of Sarah's; but I've never seen any of the women break at near the speed of the men. In our recent "pool school", several of the women pro's were clocked at 19mph at their best (trying for their fastest break). Helena T (at the same table) achieved only 21 mph. The men pro's break around 25 or 26 mph during competition (including George B., who at the same tables tried 2 breaks for maximum speed, and clocked 34 mph then 37 mph). Do you think Sarah and Tiffany break that much harder than Helena?? When I observed Sarah at DCC 2 years ago, her break looked great, but still not as hard as most of the men - maybe she will weigh in on the subject (I value her opinion over mine).
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Both Tiffany and Sarah can break over 26 mph. Tiffany would walk into VF and win that break contest every time. Her highest posting may have been 28 mph, but certainly over 26.

Fred
 
landshark77 said:
while Corr hasn't scored a first place finish on the Joss tour, she does get up there in the ranks.
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Karen won a Joss tour event and has placed in the top three several times.

Fred
 
Fred Agnir said:
Karen won a Joss tour event and has placed in the top three several times.

Fred
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And so I have been corrected. Thanx Fred and everyone else who pointed this out. I shall now go hang my head in shame. :(
 
Open Tournaments

In other sports everyone competes in the same tournament. The open champion is the highest score (man, woman, jr or vet etc.). Then there is a womans champ, a senior champ, jr champ etc.

I think some similar system in billiards would be very good for the game.
 
dedapr said:
In other sports everyone competes in the same tournament. The open champion is the highest score (man, woman, jr or vet etc.). Then there is a womans champ, a senior champ, jr champ etc.

I think some similar system in billiards would be very good for the game.
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There's a veteran's champion? Or did you mean a veterinarian champion?

Even poker, one of the very few true open competitions (cuz it's mostly mental, as opposed to, say, pool) they don't do what you've described.

Fred
 
I would say that only about 25% of the women on the WPBA Tour now could be competative on the top men's tour's. Like Allision Fisher / Kelly Fisher / Karen Corr / Jeanette Lee and a few more. but in no way would any of them be ranked in the top 20 at the end of a season. There are just too many top men players out there. Just IMHO. Johnnyt
 
Hmm...

Perhaps it is not yet fair to compare the relative skills of men vs. women professional pool players. Although the popularity of pool is picking up quickly for women, many more men play the game presently than do women, and this has always been true. I think that most will agree with me that for any given pool hall, at any given time, serious men's players will greatly outnumber their serious female counterparts. Naturally, given a much larger pool of total players to choose from, you will be able to find many more male players that play at a high (pro) level than female players. I think that in reality the numbers reflect this. For example: many here seem to agree and Joss Tour results will reflect that Karen Corr can hang with the men's pros; by that rationale, Allison Fisher could probably do the same since she has beaten Karen with some regularity in competition. Now, I think that most here would agree that Allison and Karen have thus far proven to be a cut above the rest of the female pros. So the question is: how many more men play pool seriously than do women out there in the world? 15 to 1? 20 to 1? Let's say it's 15 to 1. Multiply 15 by 2 to get 30, and that's how many Karen Corr/Allison Fisher caliber players the women would have if they had as many participants in the game. And you can bet that out of those 30 Corr/Fisher clones, there would be one or two female players that stand out above the rest.

Bottom line: I just don't think it's fair to judge skills between the sexes in pool until the total number of men and women who are playing pool is more even.
 
Maybe men vs women is something that pool could use? Or how about a mixed scotch doubles event? A few years ago I saw Ga-Young Kim give Danny Hewitt a run for his money, 11-8 I believe the final score was.
 
elliott said:
When did they let women start playing pool, anyways?
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In all seriousness, it was not all that long ago when women were not allowed into pool halls. They're still not in the Augusta National Golf Club membership, sorry Martha ;)

Dave
 
Fred Agnir said:
Both Tiffany and Sarah can break over 26 mph. Tiffany would walk into VF and win that break contest every time. Her highest posting may have been 28 mph, but certainly over 26.

Fred
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I think I might be smelling fish....yep...I smell fish alright. As in embellished big fish story of the one that got away. 28 miles an hour is one hell of a break for anyone, even a strong male player. For either one of them to be breaking at that speed or even 26 would be kinda like a woman throwing a 90 m.p.h. fastball on a baseball mound; long jumping 26 feet; pole vaulting 18.5 ft; and running the 100 meter in 10 seconds flat. IT AIN'T BEING DONE AND IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, not in this century at least. I would really like to see this done and verified for a fact with a 100% accurately calibrated speed gun.
For me....I'll bet it all that it's a "no can do"
 
drivermaker said:
I think I might be smelling fish....yep...I smell fish alright. As in embellished big fish story of the one that got away. 28 miles an hour is one hell of a break for anyone, even a strong male player. For either one of them to be breaking at that speed or even 26 would be kinda like a woman throwing a 90 m.p.h. fastball on a baseball mound; long jumping 26 feet; pole vaulting 18.5 ft; and running the 100 meter in 10 seconds flat. IT AIN'T BEING DONE AND IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, not in this century at least. I would really like to see this done and verified for a fact with a 100% accurately calibrated speed gun.
For me....I'll bet it all that it's a "no can do"
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I saw sarah radared at VF in 2003 or so and it was definitely over 24.6 which 'my horse' did. I dont think she even hit them more than one time as she beat the 24.6 first crack IIRC and took the cash.
 
Nostroke said:
I saw sarah radared at VF in 2003 or so and it was definitely over 24.6 which 'my horse' did. I dont think she even hit them more than one time as she beat the 24.6 first crack IIRC and took the cash.
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That's great...but the difference between that and 28 is light years away. Sure you think...hey, that's only 3-4 mph, but in break speed that's almost like measuring seconds in an Olympic speed race, and THAT'S considerable.
1 second in a 100 meter dash for them is about a 10- 12 meter difference or 15 yards in distance, that's one hell of a gap to have the fastest man in the world blowing off the fastest woman in the world by 15 - 18 yards when there's ONLY about 1.5 seconds between them in time.
 
drivermaker said:
That's great...but the difference between that and 28 is light years away. Sure you think...hey, that's only 3-4 mph, but in break speed that's almost like measuring seconds in an Olympic speed race, and THAT'S considerable.
1 second in a 100 meter dash for them is about a 10- 12 meter difference or 15 yards in distance, that's one hell of a gap to have the fastest man in the world blowing off the fastest woman in the world by 15 - 18 yards when there's ONLY about 1.5 seconds between them in time.
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Sarah has discussed her break speed in her forum in several threads. You can view them here. I don't believe Fred would speak of something he is not sure of, so I would say he is correct about Tiffany's break speed. All I know is that they both have one hell of a break.
 
Fred Agnir said:
They have been free to play in the Derby City Classic, the greates stomping ground of skill for pool.

Fred
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No more Fred- The WPBA barred the ladies from the DCC this year even though the DCC was willing to pay the WPBA Recognition or Sanctioning fee.
 
landshark77 said:
Sarah has discussed her break speed in her forum in several threads. You can view them here. I don't believe Fred would speak of something he is not sure of, so I would say he is correct about Tiffany's break speed. All I know is that they both have one hell of a break.
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OK...good post LS. Sarah said 27 on a 9', the 7' doesn't count. I'd like to have it proved and would be willing to either win or lose some money on it.

As far as Fred goes, I have a lot of respect for him, but he's made some boo-boo's on occasion and he isn't always right or the final word. I'm sure as hell not either, but I'll go out on a limb to find out.
 
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