Wondering Why Corey Deuel, Mika, etc. Play so Good?

[Walter N.]

Umm, we are talking about who has the best strokes, not the most complete games. When it comes to who has the best stroke it is all about shot making. If you want to bring position play and who wins a match you are talking about the complete game and that is far beyond what I take issue with. You said you think Allison and Karen have the best strokes, I dont think that is true because those strokes do not allow the same level of shotmaking of the more fluid players. Dont change the issue, you starting talking about strokes and whose is best.

Also, his name is Rempe not Rampe.

I never said best strokes I said most Machnical Sound Strokes meaning if you where to get a lession from most people this is what would be taught. And sorry about the name if I'm going to talk about some one I should know how to spell thier name correctly years of bad spelling always come back to haunt you.

 

[jhendri2]

Nick Varner. He has the worst stroke. I can't ever figure out how he makes a ball.

Nick Varner's grip hand shakes so bad, I don't know how he over comes that. He's still one of my favorites, and one of the nicest guys you'll meet.

Jim

 

[Williebetmore]

not just accuracy such as Rempe or Allison at the expense of power.

Celtic,
While I certainly agree with your points, I feel you are probably mistaken in your assessment of Jimmy Rempe's stroke (maybe Nail will weigh in with some personal observations). I wonder if you are aware that Jimmy honed his game on slow cloth, where a super-powerful stroke is an absolute must. On Accu-Stats he often decries the current practice of fast cloth in tournaments, as it takes away the advantage of the players (like him) who have developed such a power stroke.

The reason you don't see the stroke often from Jimmy is that he plays good position and does NOT hit the ball any harder than he has to, to maximize the chance of pocketing the ball. When he needs it, he has it - every bit as powerful as Strickland. At DCC you will see tons of players hitting the ball harder than they have to, Jimmy is NOT one of them.

 

[LastTwo]

Umm, we are talking about who has the best strokes, not the most complete games. When it comes to who has the best stroke it is all about shot making. If you want to bring position play and who wins a match you are talking about the complete game and that is far beyond what I take issue with. You said you think Allison and Karen have the best strokes, I dont think that is true because those strokes do not allow the same level of shotmaking of the more fluid players. Dont change the issue, you starting talking about strokes and whose is best.

Also, his name is Rempe not Rampe.

King Jame's stroke was powerful enough. He was not as mechanical as you may think. Compare his stroke to Allison or Karens, Rempe's stroke was much faster and looser. Allison and Karen's go back and forth really slow, level, boring. Rempe had a much much quicker pace and a fairly loose rythm. I have two different tapes of him playing where he executes some fairly strong power shots. Are you sure you are not talking about Allen Hopkins? He for sure didn't have a powerful stroke, and was not the best of shotmakers, but his cueball control, safety play, and kicking ability excelled far above other players at the time.

 

[Flex]

Want to build up a real stroke?

I suggest you get Bert Kinister's "Advanced Fundamentals"... he has changed my game with this one tape, big time.

Kudos to Bert...

He says to give his methods a good 6 weeks to fully kick in. I've been doing the two specialized drills he has on this tape and it has bumped my game up a couple of levels, at least, in a little over a week's time.

At first, it messes with your game, then once his methods really sink in and you totally internalize it all, it only gets better. Try it, you'll like it...

Flex

 

[Hal]

OK I was wrong. No one has said it yet so here goes: I can think of much better uses for a so called "Head Cam"

 

[Timberly]

OK I was wrong. No one has said it yet so here goes: I can think of much better uses for a so called "Head Cam"

That's what you were thinking about @ 0740 this morning?!?!?

 

[Ktown D]

one track mind

That is what he went to bed thinking about. The result was inevitable.

 

[LastTwo]

Yeah you're right Richard. I believe that the pros use center ball only when it gives them better position. People who say to use sidespin only when ABSOLOUTELY NECESSARY are full of shit. At Corey's level he doesn't really think "ok I'm going to use a touch of low left" he just feels the shot and the stroke required, lines up to where he feels he will get the desired position, and just shoots. When I am in stroke I play like this, when I am playing bad I an conciously over-analyzing the situation and making too many adjustments.

 

[sharknu]

Got ripped off!!!!

I ordered the download the head cam test and when I tried to download it it said the site was not found. When I went to the MY MEDIA section it dissappeared. That sucks. Any suggestions????? I already emailed support@istreamplanet.com about this.
thanks,
sharknu

 

[sonia]

Here is a link to a video of Corey and Mika playing wearing headcams. It gives you a view like you are down shooting the shot. This is very innovative: http://www.ppvportal.com/worldpool/home.asp

If you are wondering why these guys play so good, aside from having a ton of heart, experience, and intelligence, just watch their strokes. Look at Corey's, for example. His stroke is absoloutely perfect. It's dead straight, goes thru the cueball like the cueball doesn't even exist, and there is no flinching of the stroke, i.e. making the cue take a nose dive in the middle of the stroke. There is no movement of the tip when he is at the cueball, it is perfectly steady. This is what separates us from them. When you have a stroke this straight, the game becomes fairly simple. You would be amazed at how well you can shoot with a perfect stroke like this. When you achieve that stroke, the game becomes all mental, and the only physical part left is endurance.

Anyways, this is well worth the couple dollars to download the full match, COMPARE your stroke against theirs and you will see a huge difference, unless you play as good as them

The cue stick does not aim any shot. Whether your cue stick is stroking back and forth on a perfectly straight line or not is not the point. The crucial point is that your line-up of cue ball to object ball must be accurate, that is what is of prime importance.

 

[sonia]

Born Pool Talent

They try their damdest for years and don't reach that level because something either mentally or in their physical mechanics is holding them back, i.e. a perfect stroke or eyesight, etc. Some people are just hard headed and wont fix the flaws that other people spot, and some people try to fix flaws but create new ones in the process and thus keeps their game at the same level or worse. If you find me someone who has an absoloutely perfect stroke and mechanics, has been playing alot for years and years, and can't run 3 balls, then I'll shoot myself in the foot. My point is that SOOOOOO many people out there think their strokes are straight, but they are not. Once you start stroking straight repeatedly (GET RID OF THAT DIRTY THOUGHT RIGHT NOW!!! ) it opens up this new perspective of the game, it does something to your subconcious that makes everything seem very easy. When I am in dead stroke I get like this, I can visually see the difference in my stroke as opposed to an average day. I know that a perfect stroke is not all there is to pool, but I think it's a good whopping 70% of how good someone can play. Aiming systems, and alot of other things help too, but you need a good stroke first and foremost.

No one is born with pool talent. A straight stroke of the stick does not pocket balls. An accurate and consistent aiming system that aligns cue ball to object ball to pocket, gets you to where you want to be in this game.

 

[sonia]

Here is a link to a video of Corey and Mika playing wearing headcams. It gives you a view like you are down shooting the shot. This is very innovative: http://www.ppvportal.com/worldpool/home.asp

If you are wondering why these guys play so good, aside from having a ton of heart, experience, and intelligence, just watch their strokes. Look at Corey's, for example. His stroke is absoloutely perfect. It's dead straight, goes thru the cueball like the cueball doesn't even exist, and there is no flinching of the stroke, i.e. making the cue take a nose dive in the middle of the stroke. There is no movement of the tip when he is at the cueball, it is perfectly steady. This is what separates us from them. When you have a stroke this straight, the game becomes fairly simple. You would be amazed at how well you can shoot with a perfect stroke like this. When you achieve that stroke, the game becomes all mental, and the only physical part left is enduranc

Anyways, this is well worth the couple dollars to download the full match, COMPARE your stroke against theirs and you will see a huge difference, unless you play as good as them

Ok, I have a cue stick that goes back and forth on a level plane; no ball pocketed yet. I know that a cue stick does not aim at an object ball, a cue ball does that. Now I am at crunch time. I now have to aim the cue ball at the object ball. If I try aiming an invisible contact point on the cue ball, at the invisible contact point on the object ball, I am still in trouble; I can never see invisible contact points, and no one else can. Now what, I make a guess as to exactly where that contact point is? On both balls? How do I do that? More guesses, I guess? I am playing an invisible game. Banking; Do I choose an invisible contact point on a cushion, and aim an invisible contact point on a cue ball at an invisible contact point on an object ball, and the invisible contact point on an object ball goes over and strikes an invisible contact point on a cushion? This is like playing russian roulette with a loaded pistol at your head, and spinning the cylinder. The sad part, is that the vast majority of recreational and league players play as I describe.

And you do not have to play that way, ever.

 

[sonia]

Aiming system

Ok...I watched it again....The 5-ball was the only shot that he used the center axis...

His tip has to be initially either left or right of center because of the specific aiming system he is using. The system requires it.

 

[sonia]

Cue Stroking

Here is a link to a video of Corey and Mika playing wearing headcams. It gives you a view like you are down shooting the shot. This is very innovative: http://www.ppvportal.com/worldpool/home.asp

If you are wondering why these guys play so good, aside from having a ton of heart, experience, and intelligence, just watch their strokes. Look at Corey's, for example. His stroke is absoloutely perfect. It's dead straight, goes thru the cueball like the cueball doesn't even exist, and there is no flinching of the stroke, i.e. making the cue take a nose dive in the middle of the stroke. There is no movement of the tip when he is at the cueball, it is perfectly steady. This is what separates us from them. When you have a stroke this straight, the game becomes fairly simple. You would be amazed at how well you can shoot with a perfect stroke like this. When you achieve that stroke, the game becomes all mental, and the only physical part left is endurance.

Anyways, this is well worth the couple dollars to download the full match, COMPARE your stroke against theirs and you will see a huge difference, unless you play as good as them

Straight cueing never pocketed a ball. Aiming accurately and consistently from cue ball to object ball to pocket is the whole story.

 

[sonia]

stroke & mechanics

While I agree that both have wonderful strokes and mechanics, I personally like Immonen's stroke more than I like Deuel's. Mika's balance is slightly better, his stroke is just a bit smoother, and his follow through is just a hair more dependable.

In addition, while I believe that excellent stroke mechanics are needed to become a great champion at pro level, I think there are a hundred players in the world with a stroke that measures up even by this standard. I've always believed that composure, commitment and discipline, both at and away from the table, are at least as critical.

A stroke never made a ball. Mechanics never made a ball.

What is critical is an accurate and consistent aiming system that perfectly aligns cue ball to object ball to pocket.

 

[sonia]

strokes/mechanics

While I agree that both have wonderful strokes and mechanics, I personally like Immonen's stroke more than I like Deuel's. Mika's balance is slightly better, his stroke is just a bit smoother, and his follow through is just a hair more dependable.

In addition, while I believe that excellent stroke mechanics are needed to become a great champion at pro level, I think there are a hundred players in the world with a stroke that measures up even by this standard. I've always believed that composure, commitment and discipline, both at and away from the table, are at least as critical.

An accurate and consistent aiming system that aligns cue ball to object ball to pocket is the critical ingredient.

 

[sonia]

I'm certainly no scientist and I'm TONS less knowledgable than most on this board so who knows, you could be right. I still think to reach the absolute top level of play, you have to have natural talent. When Rodney shoots, it's like he free strokes everything... to me, that's natural talent... the game comes to him, he doesn't go to the game. I'll stop now because I'm starting to say cheesy things... haven't had my morning coffee yet.

When Rodney shoots, that is not natural talent, that is the professional aiming system he is shooting.

 

[sonia]

Aiming

When I give lessons that I preach and preach - Proper form and stroke, over and over, and over .... and If they get testy, I just make them start all over again like a drill sargeant until they finally start catching on.

Proper form and stroke is like the planning phase of a project, it allows everything else to follow to go much easier than it would otherwise.

And we all know, that with proper planning, you are better prepared to
take other things on.

Sun Tzu from his book, The Art of War states:
If you know yourself, you will win some of your battles, if you know your
opponent, you will win about half of your battles, if you know yourself and
your opponent, you will win most of your battles.

That statement can apply appropriately to Pool as well. If you truly know how good you are and your skill, you can win some of your matches, if you know
your opponent, you can evaluate his skill level, weaknesses, plus have a good
idea of how much a spot should be for a fair game. If you know both, you can capitalize on your strengths, exploit your opponents weaknesses, know how you should match up, and win most of your matches.

Every real good pool player is real good at evaluating skill levels of different
players, that's why they win most of the time.

After reading your post, I cannot help but ask, what is your aiming system that pockets balls, banks, caroms, combinations.?

 

[Bucko]

Larry Byrd

Every time someone mentions natural talent,Michael Jordan comes to mind.He couldn't make his school basketball team because he wasn't good enough,but through coaching and devotion he conquered the basket ball world.Though natural talent is good, it alone cannot take you to the top,what you need is an open mind to take instructions from sensible people and remember there is no susbtitute for hard work.[Often what you put in is what you get out].

Larry Byrd of the Boston Celtics is also another great example. Once I heard a commentator state that Larry Byrd was the epitamy of an average player working as hard as he possibly could to become a great player.