World 10 Ball Silence

[bandido]

It is good to see an official statement, but I am disturbed by the fact that this statement implies they don't currently have the funds in their account to pay with. (If they did they would simply have sent out the wires by now.) This suggests they are waiting for funds to come from elsewhere, which means there is always a chance that they won't.
I sincerely hope this is just a temporary delay and everyone gets paid.

Now try to review my previous posts. Were those due to bitterness? Politics?

Most recent report from Pulpul's Manager is that Yen told him to just be patient and he just might get 100K Pesos (out of the 690K Pesos) come the "promised date". Can you believe this s#/t?

 

[gopi-1]

Now try to review my previous posts. Were those due to bitterness? Politics?

Most recent report from Pulpul's Manager is that Yen told him to just be patient and he just might get 100K Pesos (out of the 690K Pesos) come the "promised date". Can you believe this s#/t?

Can they bring him to court? It's all in back and white, the "promised" date, the payout for 3rd/4th place...

 

[jay helfert]

I still believe all monies will be paid eventually. It appears that it is now a matter of gathering the necessary funds to make payment. A little different than the IPT nightmare where the promoter had the money, but just refused to pay.

Unfortunately, this will be a big black mark for the BSCP and WPA no matter what the outcome now. I did wish these guys well, but paying four weeks after an event concludes is a little late in my book of ethical dealings. There is some big explaining that needs to be done by the officials in both the above camps if they want to retain any credibility.

 

[bandido]

I still believe all monies will be paid eventually. It appears that it is now a matter of gathering the necessary funds to make payment.

Gathering as in because it takes 45-90 days to collect the balances from the sponsors? Jay, what if the balance left isn't enough to pay the prize monies? Do you remember "commensurate to the media values received"? How about "loan for last year's WPC due and payable" from this WTBC proceeds?

Unfortunately, this will be a big black mark for the BSCP and WPA no matter what the outcome now. I did wish these guys well, but paying four weeks after an event concludes is a little late in my book of ethical dealings. There is some big explaining that needs to be done by the officials in both the above camps if they want to retain any credibility.

.... RAYA for they are equally responsible.

 

[jay helfert]

Edwin, in many ways it's been a sad year for professional pool. Several tournaments have been canceled and failure to pay has become prevalent. Perhaps only the Guinness Tour has been immune to these woes.

It does no good to pile on now Edwin. We should all be focusing on getting the players the prize monies they have won. My loyalty is first and foremost to the players who labor long and hard to reach the top of their profession. I want to see them made right. When Darren can come on here and say he has received his $100,000 in full will be a good day for pool. Only then will I celebrate. As to what happens with Raya or the WPA after that, I am less concerned.

I hope you understand this Edwin. I have no cross to bear with you. If you can do something to help make these payments happen, please do so. Use your network of contacts to put pressure where it is needed. That will be a feather in your cap my friend.

 

[bandido]

Edwin, in many ways it's been a sad year for professional pool. Several tournaments have been canceled and failure to pay has become prevalent. Perhaps only the Guinness Tour has been immune to these woes.

It does no good to pile on now Edwin. We should all be focusing on getting the players the prize monies they have won. My loyalty is first and foremost to the players who labor long and hard to reach the top of their profession. I want to see them made right. When Darren can come on here and say he has received his $100,000 in full will be a good day for pool. Only then will I celebrate. As to what happens with Raya or the WPA after that, I am less concerned.

I hope you understand this Edwin. I have no cross to bear with you. If you can do something to help make these payments happen, please do so. Use your network of contacts to put pressure where it is needed. That will be a feather in your cap my friend.

I don't understand what's with the above statement Jay. We did try to warn them about getting into this situation. I've been trying to keep people updated as to what's happening here. Pile on now? I think they need all the info they can get for whatever "action" they need to take. That again is "action they need to take"! For when it comes to it, the bottomline is the contractual agreement between the Players and the Promoters/Guarantors.

Best thing I can do for them now is to keep them updated with info that we get and recommend a good lawyer that's familiar with the whole story. No network of contacts can help these guys now for they are the principals to this ageement plus from what I gather, no one is willing to bail RAYA/BSCP out. The longer it takes the players to take action the lesser their chances are in collecting what's due them.

 

[monski]

Edwin, in many ways it's been a sad year for professional pool. Several tournaments have been canceled and failure to pay has become prevalent. Perhaps only the Guinness Tour has been immune to these woes.

-------------------
I have the impression the the tournaments in the middle east and Europe have no delays. In any case, if cancellation and delayed payments will be come more prevalent, it will be a big blow. Pool might not reach the same level as other sports have.

The thing is -- The number of pool players seem to be growing all over the world. With this scenario, many players might be forced to join tournaments even of the prize money is surely delayed.... or worse, some or many of them might not get paid. Bleak ... if ever it comes to that.

 

[Renegade]

I feel bad for Darren and Pulpul...where's the justice? YM must pay!!! with interest

 

[shankster8]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay helfert
Edwin, in many ways it's been a sad year for professional pool. Several tournaments have been canceled and failure to pay has become prevalent. Perhaps only the Guinness Tour has been immune to these woes.

It does no good to pile on now Edwin. We should all be focusing on getting the players the prize monies they have won. My loyalty is first and foremost to the players who labor long and hard to reach the top of their profession. I want to see them made right. When Darren can come on here and say he has received his $100,000 in full will be a good day for pool. Only then will I celebrate. As to what happens with Raya or the WPA after that, I am less concerned.

I hope you understand this Edwin. I have no cross to bear with you. If you can do something to help make these payments happen, please do so. Use your network of contacts to put pressure where it is needed. That will be a feather in your cap my friend.

I don't understand what's with the above statement Jay. We did try to warn them about getting into this situation. I've been trying to keep people updated as to what's happening here. Pile on now? I think they need all the info they can get for whatever "action" they need to take. That again is "action they need to take"! For when it comes to it, the bottomline is the contractual agreement between the Players and the Promoters/Guarantors.

Best thing I can do for them now is to keep them updated with info that we get and recommend a good lawyer that's familiar with the whole story. No network of contacts can help these guys now for they are the principals to this ageement plus from what I gather, no one is willing to bail RAYA/BSCP out. The longer it takes the players to take action the lesser their chances are in collecting what's due them.

I don't have a clue what you are saying, either, Jay. It seems to me that Edwin is doing a good job of keeping people focused on the problem, and thereby keeping pressure on RAYA/BSCP. You say he is piling up on them? Do you think it is better that the perpetrators feel comfortable now, with their non-payment?

I'm just a newbie, so if I am missing some of your higher wisdom regarding the politics of this matter, I apologize.

 

[parvus1202]

Maybe there is also a fault with the philippine sports authority or commision or whatever. I don't know why they allow the tournament without a bond of $400,000, the equivalent of total prize money. BSCP and Raya should be sued by the government and cancel their license.

 

[ShootingArts]

Strongly agree with most

Jay,

I strongly agree with most of what both you and Edwin have to say here. I do have to say the implication that Edwin is piling on, although perhaps not intended, is out of line. Edwin has been in the forefront ringing the warning bells for months. Those that heard and ignored them are in a poor position to say they weren't warned. Unfortunately pro players have few options. I don't doubt that if the IPT announced a million dollar tournament tomorrow with no guarantee of payment players would flock to it. They simply can't afford not to take the gamble.

Pool players will always be at the mercy of the shysters, crooks, misguided, and those that simply use poor judgment putting on events, as long as players are basically living hand to mouth.

We seem to see a trend of nonpayment now and it seems the sponsors have a legal out to default on full payment of funds promised for this event. If it happens, it looks likely that the players will once again be the ones left holding the empty bag.

Hu

Edwin, in many ways it's been a sad year for professional pool. Several tournaments have been canceled and failure to pay has become prevalent. Perhaps only the Guinness Tour has been immune to these woes.

It does no good to pile on now Edwin. We should all be focusing on getting the players the prize monies they have won. My loyalty is first and foremost to the players who labor long and hard to reach the top of their profession. I want to see them made right. When Darren can come on here and say he has received his $100,000 in full will be a good day for pool. Only then will I celebrate. As to what happens with Raya or the WPA after that, I am less concerned.

I hope you understand this Edwin. I have no cross to bear with you. If you can do something to help make these payments happen, please do so. Use your network of contacts to put pressure where it is needed. That will be a feather in your cap my friend.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay helfert
Edwin, in many ways it's been a sad year for professional pool. Several tournaments have been canceled and failure to pay has become prevalent. Perhaps only the Guinness Tour has been immune to these woes.

It does no good to pile on now Edwin. We should all be focusing on getting the players the prize monies they have won. My loyalty is first and foremost to the players who labor long and hard to reach the top of their profession. I want to see them made right. When Darren can come on here and say he has received his $100,000 in full will be a good day for pool. Only then will I celebrate. As to what happens with Raya or the WPA after that, I am less concerned.

I hope you understand this Edwin. I have no cross to bear with you. If you can do something to help make these payments happen, please do so. Use your network of contacts to put pressure where it is needed. That will be a feather in your cap my friend.




I don't have a clue what you are saying, either, Jay. It seems to me that Edwin is doing a good job of keeping people focused on the problem, and thereby keeping pressure on RAYA/BSCP. You say he is piling up on them? Do you think it is better that the perpetrators feel comfortable now, with their non-payment?

I'm just a newbie, so if I am missing some of your higher wisdom regarding the politics of this matter, I apologize.

dont worry. Jay is just a mild-mannered individual. you can call him MR. COOL. you can beat him with a hammer and still he would say thank you and please come again. lol.

anyway, remember that Jay is only being an observer rather than being directly involved on the matter. though Jay might know some people from both sides, always remember that as an outsider, his knowledge is somewhat limited and could not render a pre-emptive judgement, especially a harsh one. Jay is still a foreigner who is not yet familiar with the dealings and culture in the P.I. just be glad that Jay still consider the Filipinos as people who are true to their word and not just full of hot air.

 

[Blackjack]

Blackjack's Rules for Tournament Promoters:

Rule #1
If the money is not there, you should not hold the tournament.

Rule #2
Don't promise money (that doesn't exist) to people that thought enough of your event to fly half way around the world to support it.

Future promoters, take note...

This common sense approach covers just about everything to avoid this from happening in the future.

:scratchhead:

It's so simple, yet so hard for some people to grasp this concept.

 

[JB Cases]

Actually no one has mentioned JAIL. I think that luring players and media and related attendants to an event with a promise to pay without the funds already secured is fraud. Are there no laws governing this action?

I am sure that if I attempted the same thing in some other area of life that I could be prosecuted with theft? May I ask what has happened to the entry fees that were posted by the players? Yen has taken money in exchange for providing a service that he has so far failed to deliver on.

I think that if Yen fails to pay on the 30th then he should be arrested and convicted of international fraud.

 

[jay helfert]

Thanks guys for pointing out my shortcomings. It's good to know I have so many friends out there. Now, what can WE do to get these guys paid? I'm a little far away right now, so maybe some of you closer to the scene of the crime can think of something.

You all seem to know something I don't. So what needs to be done RIGHT NOW besides bashing the promoters on here. Who needs to be alerted to this mess over there? Who can do something about it? What other pressure can be applied besides online statements? We all know something is wrong. Now what can be done to correct this, other than sit on our thumbs and type on here.

 

[ShootingArts]

Grin!

Thanks guys for pointing out my shortcomings. . . .QUOTE]

That was piling on a bit if unintentional. I'm often distracted while typing a post and a handful go up before mine. You are highly thought of and respected as I'm sure you know. Edwin is too and I consider you both friends. Had Edwin made a similar comment aimed in your direction I would have pointed out it was a little unfair just a quickly.

Hu

 

[monski]

Thanks guys for pointing out my shortcomings. It's good to know I have so many friends out there. Now, what can WE do to get these guys paid? I'm a little far away right now, so maybe some of you closer to the scene of the crime can think of something.

You all seem to know something I don't. So what needs to be done RIGHT NOW besides bashing the promoters on here. Who needs to be alerted to this mess over there? Who can do something about it? What other pressure can be applied besides online statements? We all know something is wrong. Now what can be done to correct this, other than sit on our thumbs and type on here.

These are good points (assuming payments are not made based on the announcement). The announcement can be considered the the official position of the organizers which they can be held accountable for.

Of course we can say that previous verbal announcements (or similar things) were made and the damage there has been done.

Now there is a formal announcement which was written for the entire world to see. So I guess ideas and scenarios based on Jay's post would be good.

 

[memikey]

Actually no one has mentioned JAIL. I think that luring players and media and related attendants to an event with a promise to pay without the funds already secured is fraud. Are there no laws governing this action?

I doubt if simply not having the funds secured in advance is a fraud in any country's criminal law. Advertising prize funds which you had no intention of ever paying would probably be a fraud. Proving that is quite another matter.

I am sure that if I attempted the same thing in some other area of life that I could be prosecuted with theft? May I ask what has happened to the entry fees that were posted by the players? Yen has taken money in exchange for providing a service that he has so far failed to deliver on

I could be wrong but I don't think that any entry fees were paid to the promoter by any of the invited players or their national associations which sent them to the event. Obviously those who qualified for the remaining slots through the qualifying tournaments held in Phillipines in the week immediately preceeeding the event did pay entry fees.

I think that if Yen fails to pay on the 30th then he should be arrested and convicted of international fraud.

I think a lot would depend upon how the law would view the wording on the "offer" letters (and their appendices such as prize money breakdowns etc) sent to invited players by Raya Sports and which the players signed.

This matter doesn't seem to me at all legally straightforward at first glance. Hopefully none of these things will transpire to matter......as a result of full payment being made next week.

 

[BlowFish]

Blackjack's Rules for Tournament Promoters:

Rule #1
If the money is not there, you should not hold the tournament.

Rule #2
Don't promise money (that doesn't exist) to people that thought enough of your event to fly half way around the world to support it.

Future promoters, take note...

This common sense approach covers just about everything to avoid this from happening in the future.

:scratchhead:

It's so simple, yet so hard for some people to grasp this concept.

I agree with this 1000%.

 

[memikey]

Blackjack's Rules for Tournament Promoters:

Rule #1
If the money is not there, you should not hold the tournament.

Rule #2
Don't promise money (that doesn't exist) to people that thought enough of your event to fly half way around the world to support it.

Future promoters, take note...

This common sense approach covers just about everything to avoid this from happening in the future.

:scratchhead:

It's so simple, yet so hard for some people to grasp this concept.

On the contrary, I don't think anyone, including those who have not followed this somewhat obvious fundamental common sense advice in the recent past, have the slightest problem grasping and fully understanding the concept or in accepting that this modus operandi would almost inevitably work very well.

The problems do not arise from any difficulty in grasping the concept. The problems arise out of the organisers voluntarily and premeditatively choosing not to actually follow the gudelines in this concept, for assorted reasons best known to them.