World Championship 10 ball...my way!

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
"10 Ball-no holds barred"

No holds barred is a very fast game of 10 ball, it's exciting to play as well as to watch. There's no time to sit down between shots, and real simple for an audience to understand, because there really is no rules of safety play like other games of pool that can put an audience to sleep. I've ran 3 no holds barred tournaments in Washington State before, and fully intend on this being my main World Tournament of Champions game played if I have the chance to do so.

Let me explain the rules of the game.

Player (1) breaks and makes nothing on the break. Player (2) has the option to accept the table as is and can (a) attempt to pocket a ball, or (b) pass the first shot back to Player (1)

At this point, Player (1) may choose to (a) pocket a ball, or (b) push-out in the hopes of getting a better opening shot if Player (2) declines to accept the table as is.

If Player (2) declines the table as is and passes it back to Player (1) from this point on any shot that does not pocket a ball legally is to be considered to be a foul, and will result in ball in hand to the incoming player.

Player (1) breaks and pockets a ball but has no shot, so at this point Player (1) has the option to push-out, giving Player (2) the option to shoot next, or pass the shot back to Player (1) which at this point, Player (1) must then pocket a ball or it's a foul, which will result in ball in hand to Player (2)

After the opening break is over, all balls must be pocketed or its a foul, which results in the incoming player having ball in hand.

Scoring takes place when ever the 10 ball is pocketed, even on the break, but if the 10 ball is not the last ball pocketed, then it's re-spotted and play continues until the 10 ball is pocketed last. During the play of the game, every-time the 10 is pocketed the player pocketing the 10 will receive a win and the 10 ball will be re-spotted for continued play.

On hill-hill matches, a 10 ball on the break will result in a win, but the game has to be played out before the wins are added up to decide the winner of the match. In the event of any matches ending up with a tied score, an additional game will be played to break the tied score.

3 foul rule is in effect, but will only award the non-fouling player 1 win, and will not result in a re-rack, play will continue until the rack is played out with the 10 ball being pocketed last for an additional win.

Two consecutive 3 fouls in a row in one game will result in a DQ for the offending player.

Knockout rule. If one player scores a lead of half the match games being played over the other player, such as a 7 game lead in a race to 13, or 11 game lead in a race to 21, this will be considered a mis-matched game and will be considered a shutout at that point with winner being awarded the match.

Jump shots, can only be made by the cue the player used to perform the last shot with at the table.

Winner breaks;)
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In one of my tournaments in a race to 13, Dan Louie won his first match 7-0, second match 7-0, and third match over Rich Geiler 8-1...because of the knock-out rule.

In the same tournament, Rich Geiler and Frenchy were on the hill with 12-12, Rich breaking. Rich broke, made the 10 on the break, went to shake hands with Frenchy, but instead Frenchy re-spotted the 10 ball and reminded Geiler he was still shooting. Frenchy won that match 15-14 in a race to 13;)

Dan Louie had Frency down 12-9, Frenchy breaking, broke...made the 10, spotted it up, shot a combo...made the 10, spotted it up, made a few balls, then shot a carom on the 10, pocketed it, spotted it up...tied the score 12-12...from the opening break of 12-9, then dogged the final 10 ball in a corner pocket, in which Dan pocketed the ball and won the match.

There is no faster paced game of pool to play than this one, because there is no time between shots to sit down, because there are no safes, it's like being in the middle of the ring and slugging it out...so there's no need for the ring to have ropes around it:D

If you want to see a player pull the rabbit out of the hat, instead of playing safe...this IS the game to play...trust me!

Glen
 
"10 Ball-no holds barred"

After the opening break is over, all balls must be pocketed or its a foul, which results in the incoming player having ball in hand.

ESPN used to televise "Sudden Death 7 Ball" events that played under this rule. I liked it for 7 ball, as there are fewer balls on the table, thus less traffic to negotiate, so it stands to reason that most balls would have a pocket available to them. However, for 10 ball, which is already a pretty difficult game, I'm not so sure I'm sold on it. Seems to me a player can do everything right and still be punished if a ball is locked up or unable to be broken out, whereas they would be able to play a safety under traditional rules. Different strokes for different folks (no pun intended), but I think safeties are a big part of the game.
 
ESPN used to televise "Sudden Death 7 Ball" events that played under this rule. I liked it for 7 ball, as there are fewer balls on the table, thus less traffic to negotiate, so it stands to reason that most balls would have a pocket available to them. However, for 10 ball, which is already a pretty difficult game, I'm not so sure I'm sold on it. Seems to me a player can do everything right and still be punished if a ball is locked up or unable to be broken out, whereas they would be able to play a safety under traditional rules. Different strokes for different folks (no pun intended), but I think safeties are a big part of the game.

If a TV viewing audience were given a choice of watching one of two different pool matches....one being the greatest safeties ever played in pool...or the worlds greatest trick shots ever performed on a pool table...which show do you think the audience would rate as more entertaining? The problem with pool....is we look at it as pool players, and can sit through a match watching safety after safety being played, the PROBLEM with pool players today...is that they're so determined to win at what ever the cost, that they duck so fast you'd have thought they had wings or something...THAT is why I have a hard time watching the Pro women playing pool....the safeties! Pool needs to be turned into a game of WOW...DID YOU SEE THAT SHOT!!!!!...not why did he miss that ball????...because most of the TV viewing spectators think pool is a very easy...game to play and don't understand what in the hell a "safety" is...all they seen was in their mind....a shot that could have been made...that the player didn't make...and how dumb...time to turn the channel;)

Pool has got to pick up the pace to keep the viewers attention span! You want little Joey to go down stairs and try and make a shot he seen on TV on DADS pool table...because he thought it was cool....but I'll tell you this....little Joey's not going to run downstairs and start practicing safeties right away...not after watching ANY pool on TV:D

Glen
 
... The problem with pool....is we look at it as pool players, and can sit through a match watching safety after safety being played, ...

You and I just have very different perspectives on what makes, or would make, pocket billiards a great sport. I do understand your desire to have a game that would attract a bigger TV audience. Maybe your "No holds Barred" would do that. Maybe not. But I know it would produce a game that I, as both a player and a spectator, would like far less than one that involves defense. Yes, I like watching safety play (and I'll concede that those who are less knowledgeable about pool do not enjoy that aspect of the game so much). I also think that some of the most skillful and exciting parts of pool are the escapes from safeties.

But, then, I have no great desire or need for pool to become more like the big-time sports. We've got plenty of those, with all of their shortcomings.
 
You and I just have very different perspectives on what makes, or would make, pocket billiards a great sport. I do understand your desire to have a game that would attract a bigger TV audience. Maybe your "No holds Barred" would do that. Maybe not. But I know it would produce a game that I, as both a player and a spectator, would like far less than one that involves defense. Yes, I like watching safety play (and I'll concede that those who are less knowledgeable about pool do not enjoy that aspect of the game so much). I also think that some of the most skillful and exciting parts of pool are the escapes from safeties.

But, then, I have no great desire or need for pool to become more like the big-time sports. We've got plenty of those, with all of their shortcomings.

I hear what you're saying, but I think most Professional pool players would rather have a paycheck with shortcomings vs a short paycheck...and wonder if it's coming....soon enough to pay the rent;)

Glen

PS. No holds barred comes with it's own line of defence trust me, as all the players learned playing it in the 3 tournaments I promoted, and its safeties will make you think just as much, maybe even more than playing 10 ball normal.
 
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I've always enjoyed playing in ring games because of the honest attempts at each shot. Too many times I watch good players duck runouts and lose because of it. I find myself cheering on the player that has some heart and goes for it.
I learned to play pool by shooting the tougher shots. If you got a bad leave, oh well. I'm not talking about flyers. If you think too many things could go wrong and penalize the better player in Glen's "take no prisoners" tourney, institute a one safety per game rule. Like a one time out per game rule or the three time out rules in football and bball.
I like it. Safety play has its place in pool...not in 9 or 10 ball. Shoot the shot!:thumbup:
 
I've always enjoyed playing in ring games because of the honest attempts at each shot. Too many times I watch good players duck runouts and lose because of it. I find myself cheering on the player that has some heart and goes for it.
I learned to play pool by shooting the tougher shots. If you got a bad leave, oh well. I'm not talking about flyers. If you think too many things could go wrong and penalize the better player in Glen's "take no prisoners" tourney, institute a one safety per game rule. Like a one time out per game rule or the three time out rules in football and bball.
I like it. Safety play has its place in pool...not in 9 or 10 ball. Shoot the shot!:thumbup:

When I was growing up in the pool rooms, we were always getting a 9 ball ring game going because you had to shoot at everything....ducking was NOT allowed. Depending on who you were playing with...ducking could have gotten your feathers ruffled...the wrong way:D

While I was down in Sioux Falls, SD setting up the tables in the Dakota Cue Club, I showed Adam Behnke and his friends how to play 10 ball no holds barred...before you knew it...they were matching up playing it. I watched this one game in peticular in which Adam and his friend scored 5 wins in the same game with Adam winning 3 of the wins. By the time they'd played out 3 racks, the score was 7-3 Adams favor.

Adam got his dad Jerry into playing no holds barred as well, then his brothers followed afterwards.

Glen
 
3-foul rule seems a little out of place here.

Sounds more like a good way to practice but safeties are a part of this game and if playing safe gives up ball in hand it's hard to take this format seriously. 7-Ball was real boring to watch and thats as fast paced as pool gets when you see Ralf Souquet get out in under a minute. Hardly anyone likes to watch speed pool. I can't see this idea taking off, maybe I'm dense.
 
3-foul rule seems a little out of place here.

Sounds more like a good way to practice but safeties are a part of this game and if playing safe gives up ball in hand it's hard to take this format seriously. 7-Ball was real boring to watch and thats as fast paced as pool gets when you see Ralf Souquet get out in under a minute. Hardly anyone likes to watch speed pool. I can't see this idea taking off, maybe I'm dense.

You come to the table, down by 3 games, only 4 balls left to play. If you could just get in line to combo the 10 you'd pick up an extra win...so you shoot, pocket the ball...and oh yeah...perfect...6/10 combo and WIN....ok, spot the 10 up....down by 2....3 balls left...one of them being the 10 ball....so if you run out you'll at least pick up one more win and only be down by 1 game....but...can you get in line to make the 10 one more time...hmmmm....well, if I can pocket the 6...and bump the 10 toward the corner pocket....I might be able to either combo it with the 8...or maybe make a carom off the 9 and make the 10....lets see......


That is not even close to 7 ball, we're not even in the same room when comparing it to 10 ball no holds barred:D

Glen
 
Glen, why have the shutout rule when you can get multiple wins in one game??

(1) in a race to 13, no one wants to watch a shut out, (2) if you forgot to bring your A game to the table and you're getting blown out by your opponet....don't bore my audience by dragging out a match,... (3) it keeps both players involved in the match at hand:D

It's kind of like boxing....protect yourself at all times...SHOOT DAMMIT, MAKE SOMETHING...SHOW SOME OFFENCE....or I'm going to have to call this match.....a mis-match!
 
Glen, why have the shutout rule when you can get multiple wins in one game??

In the Pro events under this format, matches would run for 2 hours before the bell goes off to signal the end of the round, but during that 2 hours of play...all I want to see is players battling it out for either a win at the end....or to over power their opponent by scoring a 10 game lead for an early win by knockout! If one of the players is a slow starter....then that player better be a real straight shooter...if they're going to be around at the ding of the bell:D

Glen
 
My point is, and , granted, it won't happen often, is one player can get 2-3 wins per game and the set be over in 3 games!

Keep in mind though, all Pro's will be in a division all their own, as well as all other players matched up by skill level, so players will be playing each other at the same skil level:D
 
3 foul rule is in effect, but will only award the non-fouling player 1 win, and will not result in a re-rack, play will continue until the rack is played out with the 10 ball being pocketed last for an additional win.

Two consecutive 3 fouls in a row in one game will result in a DQ for the offending player.

A similar version of this has been around for a while - but this 3 foul rule made me smile - everyone gets ball in hand after any miss (so no safeties, right?), I don't think this will be in play very often...especially the 2 consecutive 3-fouls :).

Good luck, I hope it takes off for you.

dave
 
Glen,

You are really on the right track. I've always wanted to start a thread with the list of things I would do to make pool watchable for Joe public. The no safety format was one of the few but knowing that I'm not one of the respected posters on here I'm so glad that you are the one presenting this.

I bet casual pool fans have turned the channel more often after a safety battle than any other time. They simply can't relate to it.

Whenever you try to explain what the MASSES are more likely to watch you will get many posters explaining that it's a bad idea because THEY personally don't like to watch that.

By the way. You got extra creative with some of your rules that I really like.

One of the biggest reactions you get from audiences is when players jump a full ball and pocket the object ball. Why do you want to discourage this fan favorite shot by not allowing jump cues?
 
Glen,

You are really on the right track. I've always wanted to start a thread with the list of things I would do to make pool watchable for Joe public. The no safety format was one of the few but knowing that I'm not one of the respected posters on here I'm so glad that you are the one presenting this.

I bet casual pool fans have turned the channel more often after a safety battle than any other time. They simply can't relate to it.

Whenever you try to explain what the MASSES are more likely to watch you will get many posters explaining that it's a bad idea because THEY personally don't like to watch that.

By the way. You got extra creative with some of your rules that I really like.

One of the biggest reactions you get from audiences is when players jump a full ball and pocket the object ball. Why do you want to discourage this fan favorite shot by not allowing jump cues?

Because a player will never come to the table having to face a jump shot...with ball in hand, so if a player has to make a jump shot...the player put him or herself in that position...so in my opinion...they can get themselves out of it too....only use the exact same cue you screwed up your last shot with to do so, this is pool....not basketball;)

Glen
 
You really seemed to have the millions of casual viewers in mind up until the no jump cues rule. Instead of giving the audience what they want you will constantly see guys tying up balls instead of kicking or trying to jump with their player.

Just another reason for the casual viewer to change the channel when they see something they can't relate to. (tying up balls)

Again I'm totally behind you so this is just a friendly suggestion. It's the same rules for everyone so it's still totally fair.
 
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