World Cup Of Pool (9-14 May2021) $250K Prizemoney

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Yes I agree they are. However, they would.be better if they were call shot. Chinese 8 ball used to be call shot, with a strict rule on the 8 where you had to call the shot even it was obvious. They changed it, in their words to "increase the luck'. I'm yet to see an instance of this change having a positive impact on a match.
I can't find the video, but in a Challenge of Champions pool tournament, the rule was that you had to call the nine. Efren forgot to call a hanger and lost a game. It's not supposed to be about that sort of thing and avoiding bullcrap like that is important to preserve the fairness and structure of the game.

Taking out call shot also removes the possibility of the opponent either misunderstanding your call or maliciously pretending not to have heard you call it or to not have seen you point the cue or whatever you did to call it. I've had people do both of those things to me. Strickland had an incident where he accidentally called the wrong ball, even though it was obvious which ball he was shooting. It's better to just avoid this whole problem all together.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't recall the Efren incident but that sounds like appalling refereeing. The incident with Earl was unfortunate and probably a mistake but the fault lies with Earl because he knows the rules and called the wrong ball. If he had immediately put his hands up there was a chance he would have been allowed to play on. As it passed, he came across as an ass and so be it.

These things happen rarely, as do ridiculous flukes in non-call shot. Neither is desirable but good rules are.
I can't find the video, but in a Challenge of Champions pool tournament, the rule was that you had to call the nine. Efren forgot to call a hanger and lost a game. It's not supposed to be about that sort of thing and avoiding bullcrap like that is important to preserve the fairness and structure of the game.

Taking out call shot also removes the possibility of the opponent either misunderstanding your call or maliciously pretending not to have heard you call it or to not have seen you point the cue or whatever you did to call it. I've had people do both of those things to me. Strickland had an incident where he accidentally called the wrong ball, even though it was obvious which ball he was shooting. It's better to just avoid this whole problem all together.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I don't recall the Efren incident but that sounds like appalling refereeing. The incident with Earl was unfortunate and probably a mistake but the fault lies with Earl because he knows the rules and called the wrong ball. If he had immediately put his hands up there was a chance he would have been allowed to play on. As it passed, he came across as an ass and so be it.

These things happen rarely, as do ridiculous flukes in non-call shot. Neither is desirable but good rules are.
It seems I misrembered the shots Efren had, but I found them both. Neither was a hanger (I think another player had a hanger ruled against them).
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Call shot is stupid for anything but straight pool and banks. You don't need it in 8 ball, you don't need it in 9 ball and you don't need it for 10 ball.

It takes away from the game rather than add to it.

That's the only way I've ever seen it played, although I have no idea what the rule says.

A related issue is whether a push out, if not given back, is an inning at the table. Does such a push out figure in any way in TPA computations?
Yes, it is a turn at the table if the opponents decide to take the shot. The partner of the player who pushed out would be at the table next for their team. TPA? I don't know.
 

briankenobi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I got no problem with non money balls being slopped in. That is part of the game. However slopping in the money ball? I think that is different.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't recall the Efren incident but that sounds like appalling refereeing. The incident with Earl was unfortunate and probably a mistake but the fault lies with Earl because he knows the rules and called the wrong ball. If he had immediately put his hands up there was a chance he would have been allowed to play on. As it passed, he came across as an ass and so be it.

These things happen rarely, as do ridiculous flukes in non-call shot. Neither is desirable but good rules are.
This again?...the ref was sleeping...it was obvious that Earl made the ball he intended.....
....through out the long history of the game, it was the ref’s duty to correct the miscall.
....and it was Jayson who was out of line...he knew Earl made the shot he meant to.
 

CaleAYS

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't recall the Efren incident but that sounds like appalling refereeing. The incident with Earl was unfortunate and probably a mistake but the fault lies with Earl because he knows the rules and called the wrong ball. If he had immediately put his hands up there was a chance he would have been allowed to play on. As it passed, he came across as an ass and so be it.

These things happen rarely, as do ridiculous flukes in non-call shot. Neither is desirable but good rules are.
Not to rehash old news, but not exactly sure how Earl came across as the ass in that particular situation. It’s hard to fault Earl there when he obviously made the intended shot and then his opponent forfeited, started yelling obscenities and throwing balls across the room when the judgement call by the ref didn’t go his way.
 

VarmintKong

Cannonball comin’!
SAFETY ERROR:
...OR misses a shot that is easier than a spot shot.
I don’t understand this. Is this determined by cut angle or shot distance?

Cut angle- spot shot in line with inner point = half ball hit. Shot thicker or thinner is “harder”?

Distance- OB to CB to pocket distance is equal, OB is closer to CB than pocket, OB is farther from CB than pocket. What is determined “harder”?
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
I can't find the video, but in a Challenge of Champions pool tournament, the rule was that you had to call the nine. Efren forgot to call a hanger and lost a game. It's not supposed to be about that sort of thing and avoiding bullcrap like that is important to preserve the fairness and structure of the game.

Taking out call shot also removes the possibility of the opponent either misunderstanding your call or maliciously pretending not to have heard you call it or to not have seen you point the cue or whatever you did to call it. I've had people do both of those things to me. Strickland had an incident where he accidentally called the wrong ball, even though it was obvious which ball he was shooting. It's better to just avoid this whole problem all together.
As ridiculous as your example, and at the Challenge of Champions (approx 2004), Jeanette Lee (I can't remember who her opponent was) stood at double hill breaking. She broke wet, pocketing several balls including the nine ball. For good measure, she also hung the one ball a few inches from the side pocket. She won the set, or did she? They were playing the nine didn't count on the break. No matter, for the runout could not have been more simple. Unfortunately, the cue ball had ended up near the foot spot. There was barely enough room to spot the nine and once it was spotted, it was almost, but not quite, frozen to the one, and Jeanette was snookered. No good kick into the one ball was available, so Jeanette had to push, but finding a good push when the one is leaning over a pocket was not so simple, Her opponent ran out after the push. Ouch!

At the 2009 Challenge of Champions, Pan Xiaoting was on the double hill against Allison Fisher. The shot she looked at would pocket the three ball, and she also looked at a carom on the nine ball that looked like a good chance. She missed the three but made the carom nine. End of set, right? The crowd applauded loudly, having no idea that the nine hadn't been called, some not even realizing that it had to be called. It turned out the set was not over as they were playing that you had to call the nine. The nine ball was spotted and Allison approached the table, but the referee stepped in, explaining that although Pan's nine ball didn't count, she retained the inning as a ball had been pocketed. Allison dejectedly returned to the chair and Pan ran out to win the set.

In each case, the players had to endure truly ridiculous results and the fans were confused and mystified by the rules and how they were applied. Call shot just doesn't work for the casual fan.
 
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pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Barbarians at the gates.
bar rules thinking keeps creeping into mainstream pool.
I‘ve turned down tournaments and action involving calling the nine...
...when asked why, I tell them that I’ve dreamed of making all the balls on the break...if I ever did and the cue ball ended up on the spot...my dream would be a nightmare.
 
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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Barbarians at the gates.
bar rules thinking keeps creeping into mainstream pool.
I‘ve turned down tournaments and action involving calling the nine...
...when asked why, I tell them that I’ve dreamed of making all the balls on the break...if I ever did and the cue ball ended up on the spot...my dream would be a nightmare.
Don't forget that you can still push out if this ever happens. You might still win the rack!
 
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