WORLD POOL CHAMPIONSHIP (6-10 June2021) Champion $50K

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
But that decreased accuracy requirement also benefits the top players. They should have had a much better chance of running out as well.
A reasonable point but it tends not to work that way. Ask any 800+ Fargo player if they'd rather gamble with a 750 Fargo player on a tight table or a bucket table. My guess is that 100% of them will say a tight table, because their straight shooting edge and pattern play edge become more important on the tight table.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
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A reasonable point but it tends not to work that way. Ask any 800+ Fargo player if they'd rather gamble with a 750 Fargo player on a tight table or a bucket table. My guess is that 100% of them will say a tight table, because their straight shooting edge and pattern play edge become more important on the tight table.

Thinking about that Stu, in reality, a player of ANY FargoRate would prefer a tighter table if playing against a lower rated player, I know it's true for me.
 
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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Maybe they like the chaotic, "random" nature of the event? Potential for tons of upsets with the tables configured like this. I don't like it, as I like the tension that comes with tight pockets and knowing that being in line is still no guarantee of getting out. But it does lead to some crazy results, as we've seen thus far.
Good point and I must admit that I hadn't considered this. Perhaps they wanted Cinderella stories rather than an event that would likely stay to form. It has produced a unique brand of excitement, but possibly at the expense of the elite, whose chances were compromised a little here.
 
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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Thinking about that Stu, in reality, a player of ANY FargoRate would prefer a tighter table if playing against a lower rated player, I know it's true for me.
That sounds about right. Even a mid-level amateur will, on average, fare better than a weaker opponent on tighter equipment.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Good point an I must admit that I hadn't considered this. Perhaps they wanted Cinderella stories rather than an event that would likely stay to form. It has produced a unique brand of excitement, but possibly at the expense of the elite, whose chances were compromised a little here.
This is my take on it, and it's panned out perfectly
 
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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Correct, and the fact Shane wasn't playing his best gave Oliver the opportunity to win, had the table been tighter it would've been closer (edit: changed to closer). One game specifically Oliver had the 7 AND the 8 wipe their feet on the way through the door and never should've fell but they did and he ran out.

Loose pockets have absolutely affected the tournament.
So true. The eight extra trips that Oliver got to the table due to Shane's eight misses would have had less value on a tighter table.
 

gerryf

Well-known member
Some stats on the Shane and Oliver match

Missed Shots (not including jump shots)
Shane missed 8 shots and left Oliver a shot on 5 of those misses.
Oliver missed 7 shots leaving Shane a shot on 3 of the misses and fluking a ball on 2 of them.

Safety Shots (not including kick safes)
Shane played 8 safeties (7 good and 1 bad)
Oliver played 13 safeties (7 good and 6 bad)

Positional Errors
Shane had 0
Oliver had 2
Easier table or not, the basic stats show they were shooting about the same, although Oliver sank many more balls.

Above a certain level, I guess these players will all run out if given half-a-chance, and maybe Shane's misses happened at the wrong time.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Looking at a dead out for a 6-4 lead, Skyler makes a huge position play error, very nearly scratching but leaving a bad position from which he could not recover. Albin fails to run out, but plays a nice safety on the eight. Skyler's kick safe is even better, perhaps the shot of the match and Albin must jump. He rises to the occasion, making a super tough jump in of the eight, and the match is now at 5-5. This was one of the most electrifying racks of the entire event, but Skyler will feel he gift wrapped it.

Rack 4 and rack 10 were both gifted by Skyler in this match, and he's got to gather himself as the tide has turned.
 
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Chili Palmer

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Looking at a dead ot for a 6-4 lead, Skyler makes a huge position play error, very nearly scratching but leaving a bad position from which he could not recover. Albin fails to run out, but plays a nice safety on the eight. Skyler's kick safe is even better, perhaps the shot of the match and Albin must jump. He rises to the occasion, making a super tough jump in of the eight, and the match is now at 5-5. This was one of the most electrifying racks of the entire event, but Skyler will feel he gift wrapped it.

Rack 4 and rack 10 were both gifted by Skyler in this match, and he's got to gather himself as the tide has turned.

Had to be the longest also. I turned away for what I thought was 10 minutes and came back and rewound it to see how many racks I missed and it was the same one!
 

something_pool

Registered
But that decreased accuracy requirement also benefits the top players. They should have had a much better chance of running out as well.
This definitely isn't true. As a thought experiment, think of it this way: if you could somehow make the game so hard that only the best player in the world can run out a rack, then that player has a 100% chance of winning any match, and every lessor player has a 0% chance. Any change you make to make the tables easier now lowers this hypothetical best players chances and raises the lessor players' chances. In a professional event like the world championships, making the tables play easier gives the weaker players the ability to beat players they wouldn't beat on harder equipment.
 

gerryf

Well-known member
This definitely isn't true. As a thought experiment, think of it this way: if you could somehow make the game so hard that only the best player in the world can run out a rack, then that player has a 100% chance of winning any match, and every lessor player has a 0% chance. Any change you make to make the tables easier now lowers this hypothetical best players chances and raises the lessor players' chances. In a professional event like the world championships, making the tables play easier gives the weaker players the ability to beat players they wouldn't beat on harder equipment.
I like that!! Good example!

Although there must be diminishing returns. If Shane were to play me on a table with 6" pockets, even if i could run out most of the time, I'd still expect him to win. His safeties and escapes would be far better.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Rack 11 is a tug of war, played sloppily by both. After a missed kick at the one by Skyler, Albin gets ball in hand, and he takes his first lead of the match at 6-5. Speaking as a Skyler fan here, I fear this match is starting to slip away.
 
A reasonable point but it tends not to work that way. Ask any 800+ Fargo player if they'd rather gamble with a 750 Fargo player on a tight table or a bucket table. My guess is that 100% of them will say a tight table, because their straight shooting edge and pattern play edge become more important on the tight table.
It's not about straight shooting primary, tight pockets require better moving and safety play, and there is a bigger difference in that aspect of the game than shotmaking.
 
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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
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It's not about straight shooting primary, tight pockets require better moving and safety play, and there is a bigger difference in that aspect of the game than shotmaking.
Well said. Yes, better moving and better pattern play gain far greater rewards on the tight equipment than on the loose equipment.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Albin tacks on another for 7-5 ahead.

... and another for 8-5. Albin weathered the storm in the first half of this match in which his play was pretty forgettable, but he seems to have found his game now. Skyler in serious trouble.
 
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