WORLD POOL CHAMPIONSHIP (6-10 June2021) Champion $50K

TheLoneSilencer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
World championships should be double elimination. Stop with the bullshit of it being better for tv, audiences etc... Players are not thinking about that bullshit when trying to win a world title. I'd be pissed getting knocked out by someone who lost earlier than me & goes on to win a world title with one loss while I was sent packing. Get real & stop being so foolish about single elimination being so great.

Matchroom and their pro Euro bias especially in commentary is a damn joke too. I will never support a thing that company does.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
World championships should be double elimination. Stop with the bullshit of it being better for tv, audiences etc... Players are not thinking about that bullshit when trying to win a world title. I'd be pissed getting knocked out by someone who lost earlier than me & goes on to win a world title with one loss while I was sent packing. Get real & stop being so foolish about single elimination being so great.
What other sports have double elimination?


I will never support a thing that company does.

I'm sure they'll be fine.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A groups stage followed by single elimination is the best. The group stage gives players time to find their game before they progress (or not) to stage 2. I prefer double elimination to round robin, as it means there are no dead games in the group stage.

For non pro/Tv tournaments, double elimination has its place - it keeps more players involved for longer, and gives the better players a better chance of going deep while at the same time giving the weaker players another shot and more value for their entry fee.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd be pissed getting knocked out by someone who lost earlier than me & goes on to win a world title with one loss while I was sent packing
I wouldn't. I'd shake their hand and say well done, well played, etc. And I'd have a beer with them afterwards. Whether or not they would do the same if the shoe were on the other foot would be their choice.
 
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alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I watched some of it on youtube. My impression is the ability to kick safe is becoming a lost art as players rely heavily on the jump cue. Twice in Van Boening's final match he passed on a one rail kick to jump and left Szolnoki with a shot.

First time I'd seen Omar play and he is better than I realized but in the finals he fouled on an attempted kick down 10-9.

Most importantly the rest of the world got to see what a mullet looks like.
 

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I strongly disagree here. Compare it to having the qualifying rounds in advance at other locations. For those who qualify through such events, should a distinction be made between those that took a loss along the way? I think that would be silly. Qualifying is qualifying.

The truth is that one can pay a steep price for that first loss in the qualifying tournament at the WPC, because it gives them poor seeding in the main event. Poor seeding may or may not cost them due to luck of the draw. Ask Jayson Shaw, who drew SVB in the first round of the knockout stage. If he had won both his qualifying matches, he could not possibly have drawn anyone who did the same.

This is not double elimination, and thankfully, pool is slowly evolving past the double elimination era in its biggest events. Speaking as a fan, a do or die match offers the greatest possible drama and entertainment. Matchroom understands this, and thankfully, they have no double elimination events, understanding that two stage events are far more exciting. Even the International Open has adopted this format to the betterment of the event. At Matchroom events, Stage 2 is always played as single elimination, and it's electrifying to watch.

Forget about that second bullet. The greatest champions don't need it. In pro pool, double elimination is on the endangered list at the most significant events. It's a step forward for the sport.
Except that Albin did need that second bullet after losing to Gomez in his second match.

I agree with CaleAYS that something just doesn't feel right when the winner of the event lost earlier in the tournament while many others got eliminated in the later rounds after only one loss. The argument that losing in those initial rounds is okay because they are considered "qualifying" rounds isn't a strong one for me. Seems a bit arbitrary where the "qualifying" border ends.

I'd rather have the entire tournament be single elimination from the start, do a complete random draw for the first round, and have all rounds be at minimum a race to 13 (with the semi-finals to 15 and the finals to 17). At least in a complete single elimination format the "forget about that second bullet" would truly mean something all the time.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Except that Albin did need that second bullet after losing to Gomez in his second match.

I agree with CaleAYS that something just doesn't feel right when the winner of the event lost earlier in the tournament while many others got eliminated in the later rounds after only one loss. The argument that losing in those initial rounds is okay because they are considered "qualifying" rounds isn't a strong one for me. Seems a bit arbitrary where the "qualifying" border ends.

I'd rather have the entire tournament be single elimination from the start, do a complete random draw for the first round, and have all rounds be at minimum a race to 13 (with the semi-finals to 15 and the finals to 17). At least in a complete single elimination format the "forget about that second bullet" would truly mean something all the time.
If I was sponsoring a player I'd want the loser's bracket because it gets my player more exposure.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
I'd rather have the entire tournament be single elimination from the start, do a complete random draw for the first round, and have all rounds be at minimum a race to 13 (with the semi-finals to 15 and the finals to 17). At least in a complete single elimination format the "forget about that second bullet" would truly mean something all the time.
I'd be OK with single elimination from the get go, but it would likely hurt participation if players felt they might not have a realistic chance at cashing.

Bottom line here, though, is that Albin won every "win or go home match" and nobody else can say that.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've seen tournaments where it's double elimination until the final 16, at which point it goes single elimination. So why not end the DE rounds until you are down to 32, or 8, or 4?

What does it matter how it's done in other tournaments?

For this event, it was made clear that the single elimination would start when 64 players were left.

Nothing arbitrary about that.
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
World championships should be double elimination. Stop with the bullshit of it being better for tv, audiences etc... Players are not thinking about that bullshit when trying to win a world title. I'd be pissed getting knocked out by someone who lost earlier than me & goes on to win a world title with one loss while I was sent packing. Get real & stop being so foolish about single elimination being so great.

Matchroom and their pro Euro bias especially in commentary is a damn joke too. I will never support a thing that company does.
Ok, you don't bother about other sports like tennis for example...what about other billiard disciplines? Don't know about carom much but when it comes to world championships in snooker or piramid ... it is SE and players don't seem to complain about that. Ok piramid is so so example ... but snooker is a better one...if Matchroom succeeds in growing the sport and the prize fund like in snooker I guess the players and the audience will appreciate that ... so do I.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I can only think of Pro Volleyball as another sport that has DE all the way to the end. All other major individual sports (golf, tennis, bolwing) are SE all the way. It works for them because players win more prize money in every round they progress. Even first round losers are guaranteed money. When we have that kind of finanacial structure in pro pool then no one can complain about playing SE. For decades we've played our tournaments in the DE format, and for good reason. It extended the time that players needed to stay on site and improved the room bookings for the host hotel. No one got knocked out the first day, and usually not until day three.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
I believe the "qualifying" rounds should have the element of DE and or even a true group 'round robin' aspect. This world championship was a 64 player tournament. The group stage is separate event to qualify for the main draw.
 
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Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can only think of Pro Volleyball as another sport that has DE all the way to the end. All other major individual sports (golf, tennis, bolwing) are SE all the way. It works for them because players win more prize money in every round they progress. Even first round losers are guaranteed money. When we have that kind of finanacial structure in pro pool then no one can complain about playing SE. For decades we've played our tournaments in the DE format, and for good reason. It extended the time that players needed to stay on site and improved the room bookings for the host hotel. No one got knocked out the first day, and usually not until day three.
I think DE is a good thing, and something that pool does well. It has its place. However, yes for televised pro tournaments there is no need for it as long as everyone gets paid (after all, it's a full on "professional" tournament) - and hopefully that's what Matchroom is heading towards. A group stage is good though - it gives the players time to warm up in what has to be a fairly short race for TV. DE works well for this.
 
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MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’d say the format was fine. Nobody broke and ran 11-0 through every match. Nobody had 100% potting success with 0 fouls and 0 safety errors through every match. That tells me that plenty of pool was played. It is clear to me a world champion was crowned based on the merits of his performance and the little bit of luck involved in all tournament runs. In 2022 the field will be stronger but this event was more than adequate on every front for the circumstances. Whether it was the best it could possibly have been is just too subjective.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think DE is a good thing, and something that pool does well. It has its place. However, yes for televised pro tournaments there is no need for it as long as everyone gets paid (after all, it's a full on "professional" tournament) - and hopefully that's what Matchroom is heading towards. A group stage is good though - it gives the players time to warm up in what has to be a fairly short race for TV. DE works well for this.

group stage can lead to unsportsmanlike "agreements" among other things. DE until to the last 64/32 followed by longer races is fine by me.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think DE is a good thing, and something that pool does well. It has its place. However, yes for televised pro tournaments there is no need for it as long as everyone gets paid (after all, it's a full on "professional" tournament) - and hopefully that's what Matchroom is heading towards. A group stage is good though - it gives the players time to warm up in what has to be a fairly short race for TV. DE works well for this.
In the SE stage of the tournament, every player was guaranteed money and each win was worth progressively more. And that's the way it should be.
 
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