World Ten Ball - Will the show go on? Will it be cancelled?

[jeffwinters]

In the pool world, if you threaten someone's wallet then you make an enemy. If you threaten multiple people's wallets then you make multiple enemies.

Obviously, Raya has their hands full with this event.

1. The WTB event looks to be a very interesting horse race with the horses that are already at the gates ready to race. If the top Filipino horses (your analogy, not mine) are going to stay home, then it is their loss.

2. You are the saying the the BMPAP had nothing to do with the GAB's involvement?

3. I believe the prize fund was announced as the same as the 07 WPC prize fund. And it was announced back in February. I would imagine that was before any sponsorships were set in stone, but the benchmark of the 07 event was already set and had to be met.

I would not be surprised if Raya were having problems lining up those sponsors. With all of the negative press they have been getting in the Philippines, how could they not be having problems. That is not necessarily a good thing.

4. Were the 06 and 07 events, not the blueprints for the 08 event? Looks like a similar format and payout structure.

Was the BMPAP's scheduling of events on the same weekends as BSCP events a case of warning the public or of trying to make sure another event did not flourish? Would the players in the Philippines not have been better off with the chance to play in both events instead of having to choose just one?

What exactly does the BMPAP have to protect themselves from? How would the success or failure of the WTB event reflect on the BMPAP?

You mention that the BMPAP only announces things when they have them already set in stone and that you are just now finalizing the details? Is this the same system that was announced on February 11th in this press release?? http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?id=5103

You mention another $800,000 in prize money. So, can the players count on twice as much prize money if the BMPAP is successful in holding the World 9-Ball event? That would be $200,000 for the winner, etc.

I can see that you have been very successful with your endeavors in the Philippine pool world. And for that, deserve all of the accolades.

Raya Sports also deserves accolades for what they have accomplished in the pool world.

Just imagine what could have been accomplished if both sides were working together.

Mike

Actually, that's the idea, if you've read some of the previous post in this same thread, BMPAP tried, but BSCP didn't want to, and i hope you've read their (BSCP) reasons too.

 

[bandido]

So, Alex's ability as a player was lessened this year because of the Guinness Tour thing? He has already won more money playing this year than he did last year.

I am not assuming anything. I am asking you. Did those promoters have to show the money in escrow to the BMPAP before the players competed?

You say that it is only events with a history of payment delays that were forced to show the money in escrow.

So the players did not get paid on time by Yen in 06 and 07?

Barry had to lower the payouts when 9/11 happened and some players are still not happy with him over that. Chuck Bobbitt had no history of promoting an event at the level of the Desert Shoot Out. As far as that goes, Kevin Trudeau had a less than favorable history of paying off players.

So did/do those 3 promoters have to show evidence of the money in escrow to the BMPAP before their players compete?

Mike

Mike, the BMPAP was only formed and announced last Feb 2008. When were these events that you mention happen? Did players eventually get paid by this somebody who had no history of promoting an event like the Desert Shoot Out? Did KT not pay, even at 11% per installment, and show in good faith that he'll settle the prize money owed? The one we know didn't pay players, who participated in his private production, the 3k per episode he promised for food and travel allowance.

 

[bandido]

it seems to me that Money has a BIG part in this conflict...someone is getting it, and someone else wants some of it...

LOL! I'm one of the original founders of the BMPAP. The players and managers already make money from the events that we do. But I,haven't received a centavo, I even shell out personnal funds, for all my hard work and am still here. Who are you talking about?

 

[bandido]

It's "Filipino Crab Mentality (tm)" at its finest.

wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality


--

I'm the one replying here so check out my reply to thomba02 and tell me about crab-mentality again.

 

[bandido]

You mention another $800,000 in prize money. So, can the players count on twice as much prize money if the BMPAP is successful in holding the World 9-Ball event? That would be $200,000 for the winner, etc.

I can see that you have been very successful with your endeavors in the Philippine pool world. And for that, deserve all of the accolades.

Raya Sports also deserves accolades for what they have accomplished in the pool world.

Just imagine what could have been accomplished if both sides were working together.

Mike

Allow me to correct this typographical error. It's suppose to be $400,000.00. 800k in prize and you can really kiss WPC good-bye! LOL!

Now that we're all feeling the impact of what we warned about at the start of the year. Is the pool world now going to try and come up with a solution or are the now-concerned all just going to argue and dish-out wise-a%# remarks here as some posters do most of the time?

 

[sputnik]

Mike, I humbly want to correct a mistake. The $800,000 is the wrong figure, and the prize money norm will prevail IF BMPAP gets WPC.

Re the Pro Billiard League announcement last Feb, this NBL is a product of presistence, so it is a good thing. Since February, BMPAP had been blessed with a major sponsor that has been offering prize money tournaments, so the Pro league was put on hold. But major steps have been accomplished and things are now moving.

BMPAP had nothing to do with GAB being summoned to a Senate Investigation that was requested by BSCP. GAB had always been involved in all events that offered prize money since the 80's.

The holding of simultaneous events can indeed be limiting to a player, but unfortunately, the situation could offer only such. The underlying factors had presented these situations to the players and it looks like the limitations that you had mentioned will soon pay off.

Yes, it would be an ideal world if Raya and BMPAP work hand in hand. But unfortunately, it is far from happening.

In the pool world, if you threaten someone's wallet then you make an enemy. If you threaten multiple people's wallets then you make multiple enemies.

Obviously, Raya has their hands full with this event.

1. The WTB event looks to be a very interesting horse race with the horses that are already at the gates ready to race. If the top Filipino horses (your analogy, not mine) are going to stay home, then it is their loss.

2. You are the saying the the BMPAP had nothing to do with the GAB's involvement?

3. I believe the prize fund was announced as the same as the 07 WPC prize fund. And it was announced back in February. I would imagine that was before any sponsorships were set in stone, but the benchmark of the 07 event was already set and had to be met.

I would not be surprised if Raya were having problems lining up those sponsors. With all of the negative press they have been getting in the Philippines, how could they not be having problems. That is not necessarily a good thing.

4. Were the 06 and 07 events, not the blueprints for the 08 event? Looks like a similar format and payout structure.

Was the BMPAP's scheduling of events on the same weekends as BSCP events a case of warning the public or of trying to make sure another event did not flourish? Would the players in the Philippines not have been better off with the chance to play in both events instead of having to choose just one?

What exactly does the BMPAP have to protect themselves from? How would the success or failure of the WTB event reflect on the BMPAP?

You mention that the BMPAP only announces things when they have them already set in stone and that you are just now finalizing the details? Is this the same system that was announced on February 11th in this press release?? http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?id=5103

You mention another $800,000 in prize money. So, can the players count on twice as much prize money if the BMPAP is successful in holding the World 9-Ball event? That would be $200,000 for the winner, etc.

I can see that you have been very successful with your endeavors in the Philippine pool world. And for that, deserve all of the accolades.

Raya Sports also deserves accolades for what they have accomplished in the pool world.

Just imagine what could have been accomplished if both sides were working together.

Mike

 

[jay helfert]

Hopefully where the talk of a delayed response, in taking the 3rd year option, originated would step-up and explain the impact of such action. Notice Jay that I did write "as mentioned in another post here". So, I take that as the root of the hardship now because of the disruption of the time element needed to prepare for such an event.

I'm sure you're aware that recruiting sponsors for such an event, US$1Million worth to produce, require a considerable leeway of time. So that element of time is what's also bringing hardship to the "other" parties that were entertained.

Looking forward to seeing you again Jay.

I'm still looking for $1,000,000 in sponsorship and I have been looking for over 20 years!
Right now I'm trying to raise $50,000 to put on an L.A. Open. Even that's not easy. A million dollars, no way! Not today, not tomorrow, not next year, not ever!

 

[memikey]

In the pool world, if you threaten someone's wallet then you make an enemy. If you threaten multiple people's wallets then you make multiple enemies.

Obviously, Raya has their hands full with this event.

1. The WTB event looks to be a very interesting horse race with the horses that are already at the gates ready to race. If the top Filipino horses (your analogy, not mine) are going to stay home, then it is their loss.

2. You are the saying the the BMPAP had nothing to do with the GAB's involvement?

3. I believe the prize fund was announced as the same as the 07 WPC prize fund. And it was announced back in February. I would imagine that was before any sponsorships were set in stone, but the benchmark of the 07 event was already set and had to be met.

I would not be surprised if Raya were having problems lining up those sponsors. With all of the negative press they have been getting in the Philippines, how could they not be having problems. That is not necessarily a good thing.

4. Were the 06 and 07 events, not the blueprints for the 08 event? Looks like a similar format and payout structure.

Was the BMPAP's scheduling of events on the same weekends as BSCP events a case of warning the public or of trying to make sure another event did not flourish? Would the players in the Philippines not have been better off with the chance to play in both events instead of having to choose just one?

What exactly does the BMPAP have to protect themselves from? How would the success or failure of the WTB event reflect on the BMPAP?

You mention that the BMPAP only announces things when they have them already set in stone and that you are just now finalizing the details? Is this the same system that was announced on February 11th in this press release?? http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?id=5103

You mention another $800,000 in prize money. So, can the players count on twice as much prize money if the BMPAP is successful in holding the World 9-Ball event? That would be $200,000 for the winner, etc.

I can see that you have been very successful with your endeavors in the Philippine pool world. And for that, deserve all of the accolades.

Raya Sports also deserves accolades for what they have accomplished in the pool world.

Just imagine what could have been accomplished if both sides were working together.

Mike

Mike....some good sense as usual....however, a general comment if I may....

I'm sure that all of you in USA are familiar with the usual sound strategy of never intervening to try and stop two brothers/cousins/"family" members fighting or even trying to advise them of the respective apparent rights and wrongs within either or both of their sides of the argument, as it will, almost without fail, end up with both of them punching you.....and I'm sure that holds good in USA.

Apart from my own experience of things like trying to separate brothers swinging punches at each other outside a pool room or bar I have spent a significant proportion of my business life in independent international investigation, arbitration and resolution of circumstances where commercial competition or disagreements have led to legal disputes etc. In my experience you can multiply the intensity of this "stop fighting only long enough to punch the interfering outsider" factor by at least 3 times the intensity when it appertains to Middle East individuals and perhaps by 4 or 5 times when it comes to Far East individuals. Edwin et al, this isn't a criticism or any kind of veiled racism, just a simple fact of life

It's long odds-on Mike that nothing you or anyone else outside The Phillipines thinks, says or does is ever going to have the slightest effect in real terms towards these warring parties sorting out their differences.

They will get on with this war in their own way. Both parties are certainly in a much better position than anyone outside The Phillipines to know how far they are prepared to go. Mark my words, no matter what anyone says in these forums this situation appears to have not a snowballs chance in hell of being resolved until these two parties sit down together with a fresh and more open approach. They will get round to doing that one way or the other.

Until that happens it is of course quite possible, some might say inevitable, that some players of various nationalities may suffer at least a bit of personal inconvenience and at worst some significant personal financial losses. The game/sport itself doesn't have that much to lose in the first place, so whilst certainly taking that risk into consideration, I wouldn't dramatically over-emphasise that aspect.

I hope some common sense will eventually prevail

 

[jay helfert]

Mike....some good sense as usual....however, a general comment if I may....

I'm sure that all of you in USA are familiar with the usual sound strategy of never intervening to try and stop two brothers/cousins/"family" members fighting or even trying to advise them of the respective apparent rights and wrongs within either or both of their sides of the argument, as it will, almost without fail, end up with both of them punching you.....and I'm sure that holds good in USA.

Apart from my own experience of things like trying to separate brothers swinging punches at each other outside a pool room or bar I have spent a significant proportion of my business life in indepenedent international investigation, arbitration and resolution of circumstances where commercial competition or disagreements have led to legal disputes etc. In my experience you can multiply the intensity of this "stop fighting only long enough to punch the interfering outsider" factor by at least 3 times the intensity when it appertains to Middle East individuals and perhaps by 4 or 5 times when it comes to Far East individuals. Edwin et al, this isn't a criticism or any kind of veiled racism, just a simple fact of life

It's long odds-on Mike that nothing you or anyone else outside The Phillipines thinks, says or does is ever going to have the slightest effect in real terms towards these warring parties sorting out their differences.

They will get on with this war in their own way. Both parties are certainly in a much better position than anyone outside The Phillipines to know how far they are prepared to go. Mark my words, no matter what anyone says in these forums this situation appears to have not a snowballs chance in hell of being resolved until these two parties sit down together with a fresh and more open approach. They will get round to doing that one way or the other.

Until that happens it is of course quite possible, some might say inevitable, that some players of various nationalities may suffer at least a bit of personal inconvenience and at worst some significant personal financial losses. The game/sport itself doesn't have that much to lose in the first place, so whilst certainly taking that risk into consideration, I wouldn't dramatically over-emphasise that aspect.

I hope some common sense will eventually prevail

I hear you loud and clear Mike. Thanks for this. I knew better and I jumped in too. When I saw Mike posting, I felt the time was right for me to voice my opinion. In my gut, I know it is up to them to resolve their problems over there. I can't do that for them, much as I'd like to.

We've got problems of our own over here, that is why I'm stepping up and trying to give the USA one more quality event. I'm asking for a very low paying job, is what that amounts to. :smile:

 

[sputnik]

Mike(s), it's not that there is nothing being done to rectify the situation here. As late as last week, the two sides sat down. BSCP/Raya wanted the players to join their tournaments (if they had the prize money, they wouldn't give a hoot about BMPAP players joining) but BMPAP merely wanted Yen to step down from BSCP and tend to the interests of Raya, which incidentally owns WTBC (courtesy of WPA accreditation compliments of BSCP). Yen could have taken it for the sake of Raya and WTBC. Give and take, but nothing came out of it. That is how much WPA accreditation means to Raya. Raya has BSCP's accreditations and BMPAP has the players. Raya needs sponsors and BMPAP needs fairness. Now how do you measure that?

Think about it... BMPAP will not earn from a failed Raya WTBC project, but it will eliminate the unfairness of accreditation being used on them if Raya is taken out of the BSCP/Raya equation. If it is a question of money or profit, negotiations will not be as impossible as this.

And yes, ultimately, if the two sides will not see eye to eye and settle their differences, it will come down to business competition as what the trend is now. Only, in this set-up, BMPAP will have the hindrance of WPA accreditation being used against them. Workable but very irritating.

And by the way, PPBL was scheduled for April this year but the new investors of the TV station ABC 5 changed the preference in the programs. Even our 30-year old Philippine Basketball Assoc. league had to find a new TV station in Solar Sports - same channel we will be in.

I hear you loud and clear Mike. Thanks for this. I knew better and I jumped in too. When I saw Mike posting, I felt the time was right for me to voice my opinion. In my gut, I know it is up to them to resolve their problems over there. I can't do that for them, much as I'd like to.

We've got problems of our own over here, that is why I'm stepping up and trying to give the USA one more quality event. I'm asking for a very low paying job, is what that amounts to. :smile:

 

[memikey]

Thanks sputnik, that information is read and fully understood and on the advice of the little imp perched on my shoulder whispering in my ear I'll follow my own preaching on offering no other comment than that:smile:

 

[memikey]

I hear you loud and clear Mike. Thanks for this. I knew better and I jumped in too. When I saw Mike posting, I felt the time was right for me to voice my opinion. In my gut, I know it is up to them to resolve their problems over there. I can't do that for them, much as I'd like to.

We've got problems of our own over here, that is why I'm stepping up and trying to give the USA one more quality event. I'm asking for a very low paying job, is what that amounts to. :smile:

Fully understood Jay....hope it pans out well for you on that...... no sound reason why not, you have an advantage that few others in the game have....and that can't be bought or hyped up from nothing, only earned over time.

 

[sputnik]

When foreign players contact us asking about WTBC, we can only advise them to get a copy of GAB permits and sponsor contracts. Many have called from the USA and Europe and that's all we can say. No way will we tell them otherwise from what we know is happening here. If this is taken against us, then Raya should keep their lines open or at least say something in the Internet. These poor guys don't know what to do with their bookings. And some have purchased plane tickets.

 

[Virginia Gil]

Exactly Sputnik, I, for instance WILL NEVER GO OUT OF MY WAY to email players and scare them or give them information voluntarily. I have no business doing that. But, the thing is, there are players from different parts of the world, friends mostly, who emails me and asks me about W10BC and the latest news about it. What am I suppose to answer? I really don't know, so that is what I tell them, and my own observation about the absence of sponsor/s and the lack of fanfare and news here. You know, Ish would say, to which I totally agree, we do not want to deprive our foreign player friends the chance to win big money, if indeed, everything will go well with W10BC.
Basically, this is the only reason, why BMPAP has been included in this issue...players are asking us. Otherwise, I for one, would rather keep my mouth shut about this event. Live and let live.

 

[gopi-1]

In the pool world, if you threaten someone's wallet then you make an enemy. If you threaten multiple people's wallets then you make multiple enemies.

Obviously, Raya has their hands full with this event.

1. The WTB event looks to be a very interesting horse race with the horses that are already at the gates ready to race. If the top Filipino horses (your analogy, not mine) are going to stay home, then it is their loss.

Sorry to butt in Mike, but from what I have digest so far is, if the top Filipino players aren't there. the local sponsors ( prize money) wouldn't touch this event with a ten foot pole.

3. I would not be surprised if Raya were having problems lining up those sponsors. With all of the negative press they have been getting in the Philippines, how could they not be having problems. That is not necessarily a good thing.

When it comes to the press, Raya/Yen is second to none. If there's smoke, there's fire I guess...

4. Were the 06 and 07 events, not the blueprints for the 08 event? Looks like a similar format and payout structure.

The 06 and the 07 events were all the "TOP" Filipino pool players participated? ... "and they say that the players are not bigger than the game." From the looks of what's happening now in the Philippines, this could prove the above quote is just a myth...

 

[bandido]

Was the BMPAP's scheduling of events on the same weekends as BSCP events a case of warning the public or of trying to make sure another event did not flourish?

Just to answer one of Mike's questions to clear up misunderstanding. I think that this is all documented here in your forum but here's a simplified chronological explanation.
Jan 31, 2008 = Presscon announcing the formation of BMPAP http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storyb.cfm?storynum=5071
Feb 03, 2008 = BMPAP announcement of the QC 9-Ball to be held on March 12-16,2008 http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?id=5079
Feb 11, 2008 = BMPAP announces PPBL and target launch date was April 2008 http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?id=5103

But right after the March 12-16 QC 9-Ball, ABC channel-5 who was suppose to cover the PPBL was purchased by a Malaysian conglomerate so we were forced to place this April offering in lower gear when no other TV company was available. Somehow and seemingly like an intervention from above, Sen. MBVillar agreed with our BMPAP President Vic Rodriguez that the Senator can extend some help to the billiard community by spending marketing budget for his Housing Firm on pool event instead thus effectively advertising his firm and helping pool at the same time.

But faced with the dilemma of players leaving for an overseas tournament in the middle of May (also Efren and Django needing to go to the USA for the Pool School) and an excited and eager sponsor wanting an event ASAP and Efren in the United States for a challenge match against Scott Frost http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?id=5198 not to be able to return 'til the 6th the BMPAP had no choice but to hold its first Villar Cup in Alabang on May 6-10, 2008 http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?id=5195 which unfortunately coincided with the RAYA PPT Mandaluyong Mayor's Cup.

The Cebu SunStar Superbalita 9-Ball Open is a yearly event and thus scheduled, June17-22, 2008, way before any other major Philippine tournament can be announced. The BMPAP was invited to participate and the good Senator Villar was approached to be the Title Sponsor thus making the event a lot more prestigious.http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?id=5312

So the answer is NO Mike those events weren't scheduled to coincide with the PPT events for the reason that your thinking of.

You mention that the BMPAP only announces things when they have them already set in stone and that you are just now finalizing the details? Is this the same system that was announced on February 11th in this press release?? http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?id=5103

I think the above answers this too.

Just imagine what could have been accomplished if both sides were working together.

Mike

I agree but not while he's whipping out his WPA badge while doing his PRIVATE events. How'd you like to be a Player Stable Manager in an unfair playing field?

 

[bandido]

When foreign players contact us asking about WTBC, we can only advise them to get a copy of GAB permits and sponsor contracts. Many have called from the USA and Europe and that's all we can say. No way will we tell them otherwise from what we know is happening here. If this is taken against us, then Raya should keep their lines open or at least say something in the Internet. These poor guys don't know what to do with their bookings. And some have purchased plane tickets.

I too get e-mails inquiring about the WTBC and it irritates me that I'm put on the spot due to inadequate information from the event promoter. I at times even end up being thought of as rude for not furnishing info even though I'm within the industry here.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Berry, you got a bet! No, I am not going to the eurotour weert (EDITED: Must be for about 25 euro, I am trying to see if I can find many people willing to bet on this, so you can't get for 50 euro... sorry... please tell me if the bet is still on)

Mike H: About the tournament in Cebu, I was there playing myself, and like Edwin says, that's a tournament that has been going every summer for years. The way I see it, it was the BSCP who made a "clash" that weekend...

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Oh, I just called the Philippines International Convention Center, and asked for information about the event World Ten Ball Championship.

It's late there now, so the girl I talked to was not responsible for events, but she tried to find the information about World Ten Ball Championship. In the end she said "I am sorry, I don't know. I can't find it. Can you please call back tomorrow?"
Doesn't have to mean anything, but... I will call back tomorrow...

(Sent them, the PICC, email this weekend asking about the tournament, but have got no reply yet)

Will keep you informed

 

[Roy Steffensen]

RAYA updated their website today, with the players who will be in Manila.
http://www.worldtenball.com/news_106_Players.html

Still no updates about tickets.

I find it strange if this event will not happen, since they keep updating on their site about players coming. So regarding the bet I offered, I guess I can only win on option #2. But time will tell...