Chinese 8b will never be a 'thing' in the US.How many 4" Rassons are in your vicinity?
English 8ball is... not much fun (better than any game on a barbox though!) - I'd rather see 8ball on a 9ft American table with 4" pockets or Chinese 8ball.
My nearest American table is more than 4hours away back home. Where I am now there are 20+ 4" Rassons in my local, 20 4.25" Rassons, 6 Chinese 8ball tables and a snooker table. Lucky boy that I am (If lucky is living 8000km from 'home')
My point being, yes, take up curling when you find the appropriate material. It could be fun. Chinese 8ball is
I can't help but agree, WPA is knocking on deaths door by actually following through with this... They are going to lean heavily into Chinese 8ball, and potentially try and push that into other lucrative markets like the Middle East. WPA and MR share one common similarity... They couldn't give AF about the US market as far as I can see...
Slowly working my way through this thread with morning coffee.
WPA Bans 245 Players
- Thread starter Bob Jewett
- Start date
Chinese 8 ball is like chopsticks. Yes, probably more people use chopsticks in the world than any other utensil. But it will never leave the Eastern world and enter the Western world, except in obscure circumstances.
That's a whole lotta Nguyens, but not a lot of wins...
You can't Nyguyen them all. You have to pick and choose your battles.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Agree
Double agree.
They don't want or need it to. Otherwise they would promote, advertise and provide coverage that reflected that they truly wanted to. All that money, and the aforementioned are all well below the required standard for international growth.
I agree with this thought. If the WPA didn’t “umbrella” the federations, would they individually be making this same decision? I doubt it. They need promoters, schools and regional leagues. Remove the WPA and it falls together more easily. I know it’s not that simple but I believe it to be true.
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Badpenguin
Well-known member
No Rassons within several hundred miles, I’m in the southern US. 90% diamonds (90% of those are 7’), 10% 7’ Valleys. I am about a 2 hour drive from a room full of gold crowns, that is about the gist of it. Luckily I have a 9’ diamond in my living room. I have only seen a rasson once, I believe it was in Dallas, about a 6 hour drive from me.
What is up with the 4” and 4.25” rassons? Are they in response to matchroom’s specs?
I’m probably in small company with this thought, but I fell in love with the game of pool over 45 years ago in an old school smoke filled room playing 50 cent 9 ball.
I couldn’t really care less what any of these companies do or what the pros do either for the most part.
I do enjoy occasionally watching a little one pocket but wouldn’t walk across the street to watch a dozen pros play especially rotation pool. They’ve turned the game into an institutional disaster that looks nothing like what captured my interest in the beginning.
I couldn’t really care less what any of these companies do or what the pros do either for the most part.
I do enjoy occasionally watching a little one pocket but wouldn’t walk across the street to watch a dozen pros play especially rotation pool. They’ve turned the game into an institutional disaster that looks nothing like what captured my interest in the beginning.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
So the tables for casual and aspiring players don't really relate to the game seen on TV or streams at all anyway?
Jealous you got your own table, whatever the specs!
Was just trying to point out how Chinese-8 could be a thing - there are not the tables to play the American game displayed on TV either.
The real difference is the marketing, and the producers of Chinese-8 are not interested in promoting it as a truly global endeavor, or they would. They certainly have the coin to do so, but it's probably not in their interests financially to do so.
Shanghai, Beijing, Chongqing, Xiamen and one or two other places are the real hotbeds for the American game here (or places where they are at least diverging from the abundance of Chinese-8 halls), and yes it's somewhat in response to MR, but tighter pockets have always been the standard here. Even before they updated my local, most tables were 4.25" Aileex, with 4.125" and 4" filling up the remaining space.You will usually find 4.5" 9footers in bars
Are the locals that good or are tight wickets a bragging right?So the tables for casual and aspiring players don't really relate to the game seen on TV or streams at all anyway?
Jealous you got your own table, whatever the specs!
Was just trying to point out how Chinese-8 could be a thing - there are not the tables to play the American game displayed on TV either.
The real difference is the marketing, and the producers of Chinese-8 are not interested in promoting it as a truly global endeavor, or they would. They certainly have the coin to do so, but it's probably not in their interests financially to do so.
Shanghai, Beijing, Chongqing, Xiamen and one or two other places are the real hotbeds for the American game here (or places where they are at least diverging from the abundance of Chinese-8 halls), and yes it's somewhat in response to MR, but tighter pockets have always been the standard here. Even before they updated my local, most tables were 4.25" Aileex, with 4.125" and 4" filling up the remaining space.You will usually find 4.5" 9footers in bars
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
This is like when I told that supermodel not to call me if she was going to hang out with that other dude.
What juice does the WPA have? To be pulling this crap, they need to have the premier series, and if they had the premier series, I would be able to name it. Matchroom/WNT has that, it looks too me like WPA slit their own throat here.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
A little bit of both.
There is some insane talent playing daily, and the average player I would put above the average player anywhere else.
Even the casual dating couples, or families who come to play.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Probably tomorrow. They suspended half of the top 25 players and they don't own the biggest events. If you ain't the biggest engine in the biggest track, you can't do this successfully.
Badpenguin
Well-known member
Well, there are a lot of bar box tournaments in the US. I’d say tournaments in the US on 7 footers are far more common than 9 footers except in a few regions. Aspiring players will watch 9’ tournaments and know who some of the pros are. But as evidenced by the extremely low number of world class American pros, real pool on 9 footers has dwindled to a handful of yearly tournaments and is slowly dying in the US. At least that is the way I see it.
That is fascinating that casual players would play on such tight pockets. Traditionally you rarely see them here beyond one or two in areas with lots of one pocket players. It is the bar and gambling culture that has slowly destroyed pool here, rooms that aren’t primarily dependent on food and alcohol sales are few and far between. Packing as many 7 footers into a room as possible for league players that will drink amd eat is the prevalent business model. What I wouldn’t give for access to rooms like I see in Europe and Asia…
I do think MR harmed the players with how they handled all this. Barry announced they weren’t sanctioning anymore because the WPA wouldn’t use their ranking list for 9-ball. That feels like a thin reason. Nothing stopped MR from operating their tour with the WNT rankings while WPA ignores them.
I do believe the WNT can grow into a fully successful commercial pool tour capable of making millionaires of the players. I believe them when they look to their other sports and see a roadmap to achieving that. But that’s not where we are now. WPA pool is basically internationally subsidized pool due to IOC affiliation. Some events get money for being sanctioned. Some players get support for participating in sanctioned events. Those opportunities are meaningful for the pockets of pool that can enjoy them perks.
Matchroom could have easily sanctioned their events while following the exact same path they are on now. Then they could have achieved the commercial success they’re striving for alongside the WPA. And once they achieved that and made millionaires of their players, they could have dropped the sanctioning and told the WPA their international subsidization was no longer needed and cut ties then. Same outcome but more assistance and opportunities along the way. Instead the players will have to struggle a little more during the journey than they would have otherwise.
I do believe the WNT can grow into a fully successful commercial pool tour capable of making millionaires of the players. I believe them when they look to their other sports and see a roadmap to achieving that. But that’s not where we are now. WPA pool is basically internationally subsidized pool due to IOC affiliation. Some events get money for being sanctioned. Some players get support for participating in sanctioned events. Those opportunities are meaningful for the pockets of pool that can enjoy them perks.
Matchroom could have easily sanctioned their events while following the exact same path they are on now. Then they could have achieved the commercial success they’re striving for alongside the WPA. And once they achieved that and made millionaires of their players, they could have dropped the sanctioning and told the WPA their international subsidization was no longer needed and cut ties then. Same outcome but more assistance and opportunities along the way. Instead the players will have to struggle a little more during the journey than they would have otherwise.
Or other hand WPA could accept MR ranking list back then and all would be fine... It is just WPA who is banning players.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Yeah, in my time following pool, I have certainly watched the leading organizations clearly target the $$$$ and that is not the American audience.
I guess all those tourneys in America, are more about keeping places open, and with tables to play on.
Even those people beating the balls around a table are enjoying themselves, but then I think the attitude to both causal and serious play are culturally very different here than to the US. I guess the deeper question, is what really provides that culturally formulated attitude to playing.
I've seen one game of one-pocket in my entire time playing here. I have played one game with a friend (who didn't like it)
I see, having read to this point, I see my above statement clarified. I guess that is the climate created for pool now in the US, which then shapes the cultural approach to how the game is played.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
I guess it's more like a bond.I don't see how "no entry fee" and "pay an entry fee" go together
Badpenguin
Well-known member
Yep, pretty much. I’m hoping the current resurgence of pro pool can pull US pool out of the gutter, we’ll see.