randywhite30
Banned
I've been looking at ways to do a wrap. I've been told the toothpick methods is better than the loop method. What do you think?
Wraps
- Thread starter randywhite30
- Start date
I think you shouldn't need to ask this question if your ready to compete with Ryan. I mean really, you are proving to your future customers that you are clueless about even the easiest repairs. Remember this always, nobody will ever know how clueless you are if you don't open your mouth.
randywhite30
Banned
The question has nothing to do with competing, its a question to get the majorities opinion. I personally dont like when its done with a toothpick way. you can almost always see the start and finish of anyones work. The loop seems to look better. But some people have said that using the toothpick will hold up to more abuse, than the other.
After doing many, many linen wraps, I settled on pining the front and looping in the back. It works for me, however, you should try both ways and decide what works best for you. :scratchhead:
randywhite30
Banned
I like that idea, to use both.
I think all other cuemakers should use the loop method. That way I will get a ton of repair work replacing loose wraps. I am not saying some can't do the loop method without them coming loose, but enough will come loose to keep me in business full time if you will all just start using the loop method. :smile:
I also use the toothpic method. It takes a little longer but will not usually come undone after years of abuse. Just like Chris said, there are lots of rewraps done because they have come undone due to the loop method. If you spend a couple extra minutes you can ALWAYS hide the place where the toothpic is. Practice makes good repairman great. Good luck
Over the years I've wrapped probably at least a 1,000 cues and other than maybe the first 15 or 20 when I was experimenting, they have been pegged on both ends. In the last 3 weeks I have wrapped 8 cues but I went back to experimenting and have pegged the front, where I start my wraps and I've been tucking the rear. I haven't been cutting a groove for the tail to lay in for fear that I may cut to deeply where the tail could have room to slide and come loose. I've been making the tail go under about 3/4" of the wrap to make sure it is good and secure. What I don't like about the technique however is the slight imprint of the tail that is left after pressing.
I see that the Asian cues, which are the balk of my re-wraps as they become undone very easily, have their tails hammered very flat so that they are much less likely to show this imprint. I wonder how they do that on the end tuck as it is under the wrap?
As Chris has said, most cues that come unwrapped are cues that are tucked. All of the Asian cues that have come unwrapped are tucked of coarse but the Asians don't use a glue that hardens. Their glue seems to be some type of spray contact cement which certainly isn't suitable for holding a wrap in place and it let's the wrap shift somewhere causing a loop to form so that in a short while you have a small birds nest. This is just a theory of mine however so if I'm wrong, which is very possible, I will have a number of cues to re-wrap in the future.
Dick
Curious, have you guys ever seen any linen wraps on a Gina come loose? Of the several later ones I've seen under the wraps.....not one peg just neat little ends tucked down in grooves.
I've found that you can do the loop without it coming loose.
First off, I'll cut a groove in the handle to glue the linen to to start it, this eliminates the bump feeling after pressing, although pressing really well will eliminate most of that feeling as well.
Then at the other end, it is necessary to use a tool to tighten the wrap back as tight as it can go at the very end. Pressing will eliminate tiny gaps in the middle but you need the end to be as tight as possible. I also use a liberal amount of white elmer's glue with sprayed water to increase the working time. It presses through the wrap when pressing it.
I also use a slightly unconventional method of pressing beyond using a linen press.
I have a shaft that I've cut off at about 7 inches from the joint and flattened it out into a sharp point. That's what I use to press in the end of the linen and make it tight.
I also use the flat of that tool to press the linen after I've used a roller press. This will take off any excess glue and wax off of the linen and burns it in really good.
This also almost entirely rids the wrap of the bump that can be there from the loop back method.
I was always partial to the toothpick method as that was the first method I had learned, but if you take your time and use plenty of glue and ensure that the end of the wrap is tight, the loop back method can look cleaner and maintain tightness.
Jaden
First off, I'll cut a groove in the handle to glue the linen to to start it, this eliminates the bump feeling after pressing, although pressing really well will eliminate most of that feeling as well.
Then at the other end, it is necessary to use a tool to tighten the wrap back as tight as it can go at the very end. Pressing will eliminate tiny gaps in the middle but you need the end to be as tight as possible. I also use a liberal amount of white elmer's glue with sprayed water to increase the working time. It presses through the wrap when pressing it.
I also use a slightly unconventional method of pressing beyond using a linen press.
I have a shaft that I've cut off at about 7 inches from the joint and flattened it out into a sharp point. That's what I use to press in the end of the linen and make it tight.
I also use the flat of that tool to press the linen after I've used a roller press. This will take off any excess glue and wax off of the linen and burns it in really good.
This also almost entirely rids the wrap of the bump that can be there from the loop back method.
I was always partial to the toothpick method as that was the first method I had learned, but if you take your time and use plenty of glue and ensure that the end of the wrap is tight, the loop back method can look cleaner and maintain tightness.
Jaden
Jaden:
A couple questions about your technique, since the mention of watered-down Elmer's glue intrigued me:
1. Have you ever heard of an Irish Linen install "smelling godawful" after the cue has been played with for an extended period, especially if the player's hand sweated a bit? (I ask, because I've had a couple cues already where this very situation has occurred, and a respected cue repairperson has told me it was because the linen was installed with some hide glue. And I know that hide glue can really smell bad when it's "reactivated" through sweat or other moisture.)
2. Is it normal procedure to apply a type of glue in the same manner as you describe above, to an Irish Linen install? (I ask, because I've seen videos of Irish Linen being installed with just pressure -- no glue -- and I was just wondering.)
Although I'm not an Irish Linen fan (not because of the "smell" issue experienced that I describe above, but more because I prefer other grips), I'm interested in all aspects of cuemaking -- that "knowing more than just how to use your tools, but how those tools came to be" thing.
-Sean
A couple questions about your technique, since the mention of watered-down Elmer's glue intrigued me:
1. Have you ever heard of an Irish Linen install "smelling godawful" after the cue has been played with for an extended period, especially if the player's hand sweated a bit? (I ask, because I've had a couple cues already where this very situation has occurred, and a respected cue repairperson has told me it was because the linen was installed with some hide glue. And I know that hide glue can really smell bad when it's "reactivated" through sweat or other moisture.)
2. Is it normal procedure to apply a type of glue in the same manner as you describe above, to an Irish Linen install? (I ask, because I've seen videos of Irish Linen being installed with just pressure -- no glue -- and I was just wondering.)
Although I'm not an Irish Linen fan (not because of the "smell" issue experienced that I describe above, but more because I prefer other grips), I'm interested in all aspects of cuemaking -- that "knowing more than just how to use your tools, but how those tools came to be" thing.
-Sean
Wow, I like that saying, can I steal it?
Randy, I am no pro at leather, I would be lucky to find someone who couldn't give me the last 8 and the pop.
You however need to first learn about leather and suppliers. You will find without the right supplier you will have an unmatching end to end thickness so much that you will only be able to use 1 out of 10 to be proud enough to call your own if you put it on right.
The best suggestion I feel I can give you is buy some cheap wood, cut it to your handle taper, cut your leather wrap taper in and find the best way Randy can do it and repeat until you have no fear of doing it to your finished cue.
Yes, it will cost a few bucks but those self taught lessons are cheap by the end of the year.
Really? Not if its done properly. You have to know how to pin the start of the linen so that doesn't happen. I can't tell you how to do that as I had to figure it out for myself as you should too.
I have great success with the loop method,
To my knowledge....none of my wraps have come loose
I also press the wraps so there is no noticeable ridge from the tail of the wrap.
I have never tried to use the toothpick method, for the simple reason that I don't liketodrill next to the finish on a wrap groove.
Just my opinion but I like the results from my method of wrapping linen.
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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?0p02er
To my knowledge....none of my wraps have come loose
I also press the wraps so there is no noticeable ridge from the tail of the wrap.
I have never tried to use the toothpick method, for the simple reason that I don't liketodrill next to the finish on a wrap groove.
Just my opinion but I like the results from my method of wrapping linen.
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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?0p02er