WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

[Pay Up Sucker]

How do you control what part of your tip is hitting the cue ball? Isn't that determined by where you hit the cue ball?

pj
chgo

Firstly PJ, i don't know exactly what part of my tip is "actually" hitting the cue ball, i am just going by the feeling i am getting on the hit. I control what part of my tip is going to hit the cue ball by the angle/alignment of my cue. For follow i will jack up a touch and hit what looks and feels like i am hitting with the top of the ferule, for inside english i will use the outside of ferule and for outside english i will use the inside of the ferule.

spell check on ferule, to lazy to check it myself

 

[ENGLISH!]

I really don't like the "stabbing motion", but if that works for you, it's fine with me[/B]. I think more about hitting the cue ball "Crisply", "Firmly", or like I referred to before, the road players call it "Pinning" the shots. (this doesn't apply to "slow rolled"/finesse shots)

CJ,

I don't really like 'stabbing' either but crisply & frimly are adverbs that I feel apply more to the speed or firmness of the actual stroke. What, if anything, would you prefer it to be named?

Those slow rolled/finesse shots are what I 'feel', or lack there of, that is keeping me from taking this into competition. How do you adjust for them? Do you loosen your grip or shorten your stroke or both? (Changing 46 yrs. of doing something a certain way is not easy.)

As I said, I know I have not put in enough 'practice' time in with it & I'm sure I can figure it out on my own, but your insight would certainly be appreciated.

Thanks again for all of your time, efforts, & patience.

 

[CJ Wiley]

We (road players) learned from playing on strange equipment on the road all the time

I have really been experimenting with this tip thing lately.When you really get the feel of your tip and you get the feeling you can control what part of your tip is hitting the cue ball you can get some serious control and tight,quick spin on the ball hitting close to center. I believe a nickle shape tip would be best for this technique also. I also use this as a situational technique on short to med shots, its a good weapon when needed.

Yes, you have the idea. It's about the "feel" of hitting the cue ball with less of your tip. Everyone is going to experience this differently and it's a new sensation for most players.

I can tell by the sound if someone knows how to do it or not. The pool stroke happens so quickly and if you're not right on top of the shot your eyes won't pick up the intricacies of what's happening at contact. It's easier to "listen" for the tell tale signs/signals.

When a players is "Pinning" the balls it makes a high pitched sound that almost sounds like their tip is wearing thin and they're hitting the cue ball with the ferrule. Actually, when you learn this you WILL want to use a thinner tip, and the feeling you get from contact will be more intense.

I can show you how to hit "kill/stun" shots with this technique that don't look possible.....but they are. We (road players) learned from playing on strange equipment on the road all the time not to "slow roll" balls unless we had to.

To do this you must learn the "stun" shot so you can continue to hit the ball firmly, even when it looks like you can't. Acceleration is one of the keys to consistency, concentration and creativity. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

Tip/Cue Ball connection is essential

CJ,

I don't really like 'stabbing' either but crisply & frimly are adverbs that I feel apply more to the speed or firmness of the actual stroke. What, if anything, would you prefer it to be named?

Those slow rolled/finesse shots are what I 'feel', or lack there of, that is keeping me from taking this into competition. How do you adjust for them? Do you loosen your grip or shorten your stroke or both? (Changing 46 yrs. of doing something a certain way is not easy.)

As I said, I know I have not put in enough 'practice' time in with it & I'm sure I can figure it out on my own, but your insight would certainly be appreciated.

Thanks again for all of your time, efforts, & patience.

Some players like a "loose" grip. I personally don't like anything in life "loose". I'm a believer in controlling the cue, like controlling your toothbrush when brushing. You dont' want to "crush the brush", but you want to hold it so you can feel your individual teeth.

Or a painter that holds a paint brush, not with a "death grip", but with a controlled pressure so the brush can be felt on the canvas.

One way I have shown players to do it is to take the cue in their right hand and point it like they were pointing at the top of a house in front of them. Then, write "control the cue" in the air a few times with tip.

Feel what it's like to control the whole cue and especially the tip. We play the game with the TIP, and the cue is just a "delivery system" to transfer energy into the Tip, transferring to the cue ball, then the object ball.

Don't forget the basics, the tip is what we play The Game with and the primary target is the Cue Ball, not the Object Ball. The Tip/Cue Ball connection is essential to get to YOUR next level of enjoyment and excellence in The Game. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[DTL]

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[Pay Up Sucker]

when i say the follow through i don't mean alter contact, obviously :thumbup:

 

[DTL]

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[Pay Up Sucker]

ok, the forward motion of the cue, hows that?

 

[CJ Wiley]

I learned to watch body signs, not their cue for the clues.

when i say the follow through i don't mean alter contact, obviously :thumbup:

I understand, there's information in the follow through, but it can be "deceptive". The tip follows the hand, so I'm more inclined to watch someone's hand to see how that relationship/connection is maintained.

One of the things about traveling on the road for years was "clocking speeds" of various players we had never seen before. The feet, hands, contact sound and eyes tell the story and solve the "mystery" of whether someone is a super player or just "acting" like it.

 

[DTL]

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[ENGLISH!]

From the pause at the back swing (we all pause, some more than others) to tip contact is where the money is, IMO.

It can even start before that. If the backstroke or 'wind-up' is too quick it can affect the forward delivery in a disadvantages manner.

Regards,

 

[Chrippa]

Hi, to bad you couldn´t see it, I think you had enjoyed it. It was a great tournament with some real high class pool.
I will try and see if I can find any vids of Niclas, he really shows (at least I think, my understanding of, wrist, pinning etc) very clearly what you mean because he has a bit more loose wrist than you so it´s easy to see.
I started back in 95/6 to play and back then he still competed some but the most fun part was when he trained, he came down to the hall and just racked it up for straight pool, did a 100 and that was that - all the time...... At least it seemed like it. He has a high run over 200. Beautiful to see:smile:.

Chrippa

I've heard the name Niclas Bergendorff, but I'm not sure if we've ever played. I got on too late to see him play this match. I know Tom Storm though and have played in several tournaments with him.

 

[DTL]

...................

 

[CJ Wiley]

The Pause at the "transitional point" of the stroke

It can even start before that. If the backstroke or 'wind-up' is too quick it can affect the forward delivery in a disadvantages manner.

Regards,

The Pause at the "transitional point" of the stroke can be a part of the players rhythm and it's also to stop the cue {momentarily} so you can FEEL the forward stroke with no interference from "re directing" the cue.

If you rush the cue back and forward you lose valuable feedback that is used {mentally} to create your "Touch" or "Feel for the Game". Some of my Road Player friends used to call it "The Gathering of the Shot".

However you choose to think about it, I would suggest practicing with a pause (exagerate it in practice) at the completion of the "backstroke".

 

[backplaying]

Yes, you have the idea. It's about the "feel" of hitting the cue ball with less of your tip. Everyone is going to experience this differently and it's a new sensation for most players.

I can tell by the sound if someone knows how to do it or not. The pool stroke happens so quickly and if you're not right on top of the shot your eyes won't pick up the intricacies of what's happening at contact. It's easier to "listen" for the tell tale signs/signals.

When a players is "Pinning" the balls it makes a high pitched sound that almost sounds like their tip is wearing thin and they're hitting the cue ball with the ferrule. Actually, when you learn this you WILL want to use a thinner tip, and the feeling you get from contact will be more intense.

I can show you how to hit "kill/stun" shots with this technique that don't look possible.....but they are. We (road players) learned from playing on strange equipment on the road all the time not to "slow roll" balls unless we had to.

To do this you must learn the "stun" shot so you can continue to hit the ball firmly, even when it looks like you can't. Acceleration is one of the keys to consistency, concentration and creativity. 'The Game is the Teacher'

You get to hear people telling you it sounded like you miscued alot.

 

[backplaying]

Do you think a player who just plays good (but can't explain how) makes a good instructor?


You seem to be arguing with things only you are saying. Who's winning?

pj
chgo

I would if you would play me some.

 

[backplaying]

No one (to my knowledge, anyway) in these threads has been ignorant enough to say, "anyone that played at a high level can't teach anyone else how to play." What they've said is that the best players seldom make the best teachers. That leaves room for exceptions. CJ may very well be one of those exceptions, but how would anyone know that for sure? Is there any video of him teaching someone else how to play pool?

And you are right; when "these guys" play with "the knowledge they have" it really can be something to behold. Bob Jewett recently demonstrated that in the U.S. Open.

Roger

Check the thread where a beginner is asking for advise and look at Patricks post. He said get a instructor not someone who just plays good.

 

[Pay Up Sucker]

Realizing that the CB is on its way at essentially the moment of tip contact (couple milliseconds), as CJ said, "Moment of truth", was the most helpful thing I've ever learned playing pool. That was about 24 years ago. It shot my game up 2 balls almost instantly. From the pause at the back swing (we all pause, some more than others) to tip contact is where the money is, IMO.

That it is what I am saying! He looks like he has just a firm cocked grip with a shorter than normal back-swing.That gives him a solid consistent, accurate foundation and he works off that.

Now DTL i am interested in your post above, can you get into a little more detail, it sounds helpful and interesting?

 

[Neil]

Check the thread where a beginner is asking for advise and look at Patricks post. He said get a instructor not someone who just plays good.

Originally Posted by backplaying
The funny part is how these same people think anyone that played at a high level can't teach anyone else how to play. As Patrick said in another post to a beginner, you need to get a instructor and not just a player that plays good. Is there any video of Patrick, nopool and the rest of these people who are the only ones that can teach someone how to play pool? I would really like to see these guys play with the knowledge they have it would be something to behold I'm sure!

He also asked you a question that you totally evaded. You stated that ANYONE that played at a high level can teach. That simply is a false statement that has been proven many times over. Which is EXACTLY why Patrick stated to see an instructor- someone qualified to actually teach.

Also, Patrick said to see an instructor, so why are you wanting video of him, nobpool, and others that aren't actual instructors? YOU are the ONLY one that said that only they are able to teach, and in the process you attempt to mock them and all instructors for things you made up.

 

[dorabelle]

This thread is still going? How?