WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

[madmiller]

Yes, this is the secret to hitting powerful "kill shots" and "stunning" the cue ball instead of "slow rolling" it.

Find a way to hit most of your shots the same speed and your game will jump up and so will your confidence in dealing with difficult table layouts.

I think I got the "hammer wrist" action , "touch of inside" and the same speed thing, but I am still not sure about "pinning the ball". It's hard to try all of that when you have only a couple of nights table time. Could you explain the pinning a little more, CJ?
I really appreciate your help.

 

[Banks]

This is why Mosconi's little book was awesome..

He didn't have to spend every other page arguing with Fats about what you call something or if you should go 3 rails for leave when one rail will suffice.

I like pool. :tongue:

 

[CJ Wiley]

St. Louie Louie was there, with Buddy Hall, Jimmy Reid, Dallas West, who ran 10 racks

CJ did you ever match up against Keith McCready back in the day, since you were both action guys?

Yes, we played at my pool room in Dallas. 8 Ahead Session on a "Triple Shimmed Gold Crown Table" - Keith won the flip, broke and ran out, then broke, didn't make a ball and never got another shot. It was not unusual to run 6 to 8 racks back then, we were just geared that way to win.

I went over to Keith after that to shake his hand and Keith looked at me, shurgged and said "I can't complain, I played perfect."

Believe me, Keith has dished out the packages MANY times in his gambling days. Sometimes you hit that really "High Gear" out of self defense. I first saw Keith play when I was 17 at the big Bar Table tournament in Clinton, Iowa and he offered anyone in the place the last two on the bar table.

Keith has my utmost respect as a player and an entertaining character/personality. Keith was very unfortunate that the billiard industy couldn't figure out how to capitalize more on his role in the 'Color of Money'. There's always been too much "in fighting" and finger pointing fueled by jealousy and anomosity.

I come from the era when the "Big Money Matches" were highlighted at the tournaments and players all seemed like Movie Stars.

I walked into that Bar Table Tournament in Clinton Iowa and it was like walking into a movie set. It was like the "who's who" of professional players.

"King James" Rempe was there in a taylored blue and white three piece suit warming up with Mike Sigel, who was the first player I ever saw talk while HE was shooting. I remember studying how Sigel held the cue, his bridge and his back hand looked like he was playing a musical instrument when he played. I never saw him shoot the "wrong shot" or shoot before he knew exactly what he was going to do....and then do it flawlessly in his prime.

St. Louie Louie was there, with Buddy Hall, Jimmy Reid, Dallas West (who ran 10 racks in a row during the tournament),"The Miz" Steve Mizerak, Earl Strickland, "Pretty Boy Floyd" Jimmy Mataya talking like he owned every town he was in, with people flocked around the table to hear his next story.

And I remember watching LA Keith playing with that BIG BALL on the bar table. He was legendary and no one wanted anything to do with him on that "Bar Rag". I vividly remember the table he was playing on and how he made that Big Ball "get up and talk". He would break with a smooth stoke and hit them perfectly square and the cue ball with come back and STOP DEAD in it's tracks. It looked like he could run 20's the way he broke.

 

[TheThaiger]

Yes, we played at my pool room in Dallas. 8 Ahead Session on a "Triple Shimmed Gold Crown Table" - Keith won the flip, broke and ran out, then broke, didn't make a ball and never got another shot. It was not unusual to run 6 to 8 racks back then, we were just geared that way to win.

I went over to Keith after that to shake his hand and Keith looked at me, shurgged and said "I can't complain, I played perfect."

Believe me, Keith has dished out the packages MANY times in his gambling days. Sometimes you hit that really "High Gear" out of self defense. I first saw Keith play when I was 17 at the big Bar Table tournament in Clinton, Iowa and he offered anyone in the place the last two on the bar table.

Keith has my utmost respect as a player and an entertaining character/personality. Keith was very unfortunate that the billiard industy couldn't figure out how to capitalize more on his role in the 'Color of Money'. There's always been too much "in fighting" and finger pointing fueled by jealousy and anomosity.

I come from the era when the "Big Money Matches" were highlighted at the tournaments and players all seemed like Movie Stars.

I walked into that Bar Table Tournament in Clinton Iowa and it was like walking into a movie set. It was like the "who's who" of professional players.

"King James" Rempe was there in a taylored blue and white three piece suit warming up with Mike Sigel, who was the first player I ever saw talk while HE was shooting. I remember studying how Sigel held the cue, his bridge and his back hand looked like he was playing a musical instrument when he played. I never saw him shoot the "wrong shot" or shoot before he knew exactly what he was going to do....and then do it flawlessly in his prime.

St. Louie Louie was there, with Buddy Hall, Jimmy Reid, Dallas West (who ran 10 racks in a row during the tournament),"The Miz" Steve Mizerak, Earl Strickland, "Pretty Boy Floyd" Jimmy Mataya talking like he owned every town he was in, with people flocked around the table to hear his next story.

And I remember watching LA Keith playing with that BIG BALL on the bar table. He was legendary and no one wanted anything to do with him on that "Bar Rag". I vividly remember the table he was playing on and how he made that Big Ball "get up and talk". He would break with a smooth stoke and hit them perfectly square and the cue ball with come back and STOP DEAD in it's tracks. It looked like he could run 20's the way he broke.

Why don't you and Keith match up in an exhibition? Go on tour, and stream it. Snooker players have the Legends Tour for older pros to play in - is there something similar for pool?

If this boards proves nothing else, there's a big market for nostalgia.

 

[TheThaiger]

I think I got the "hammer wrist" action , "touch of inside" and the same speed thing, but I am still not sure about "pinning the ball". It's hard to try all of that when you have only a couple of nights table time. Could you explain the pinning a little more, CJ?
I really appreciate your help.

I find it ironic that CJ (correctly) criticises those giving too much superfluous info on the mechanics of the game, whilst at the same time offering his own, er, superfluous info on the mechanics of the game.

I mean, really, "hammer wrist action", "touch of English" and "pinning the ball". WTF?

 

[Pidge]

I find it ironic that CJ (correctly) criticises those giving too much superfluous info on the mechanics of the game, whilst at the same time offering his own, er, superfluous info on the mechanics of the game.

I mean, really, "hammer wrist action", "touch of English" and "pinning the ball". WTF?

They do sound like they should be in a different context.

- "Hammer Wrist Action" - Sexual metaphor?
- "Touch of English" - Jimmy Saville aftershave?
- "Pinning" - The act of sticking a tail to a donkey?

 

[CJ Wiley]

Mizerak had the Senior Tour for several years back in the 90s

I find it ironic that CJ (correctly) criticises those giving too much superfluous info on the mechanics of the game, whilst at the same time offering his own, er, superfluous info on the mechanics of the game.

I mean, really, "hammer wrist action", "touch of English" and "pinning the ball". WTF?

You are funny, and I know, I'm going to have a complete web site with all my terms listed so they can be understood by gurus around the world.

BTW, it's "Touch" of Inside....I know you're partial to the "English". :groucho:

I'm not sure about the "Seniors Tour" yet. It would be fun to play "LA KEITH", David "THE GIANT KILLER" Howard, Rempe, Varner, Hopkins, Hall, etc. and it would be like "old times".

Mizerak had the Senior Tour for several years back in the 90s and it was bigger than the present day Pro Tour, so maybe there would be a demand for the senior characters again.

I gotta start concentrating on the Mosconi Cup after I get these DVDs out and then I can think about "what comes next".

 

[CJ Wiley]

Squirt is a caffeine-free, citrus-flavored, carbonated soft drink, created in 1938

They do sound like they should be in a different context.

I agree, there's a lot of "double meanings" when it comes to pool.

squirt:Squirt is a caffeine-free, citrus-flavored, carbonated soft drink, created in 1938 in Phoenix, Arizona.[1]

veer: The Veer is an option running play often associated with option offenses in American football, made famous at the collegiate level by Bill Yeoman's Houston Cougars. It is currently run primarily on the high school level

deflection: a technique of shooting ahead of a moving target so that the target and projectile will collide

swerve: strays from the truth; a conversation that swerves away from sensitive issues.

gear: Backlash is the error in motion that occurs when gears change direction.

slide: Slide byThe Goo Goo Dolls

 

[TheThaiger]

BTW, it's "Touch" of Inside....I know you're partial to the "English". :groucho:
.

Oh yeah. My bad, as you guys say. :smile:

 

[TheThaiger]

They do sound like they should be in a different context.

- "Hammer Wrist Action" - Sexual metaphor?
- "Touch of English" - Jimmy Saville aftershave?
- "Pinning" - The act of sticking a tail to a donkey?

Haha, Jimmy Saville's aftershave.

 

[Alf Taylor]

Thanks a lot Seige...

I tried your "hammer" principal and mashed the crap out of my finger.

Seriously, though. Isn't your wrist movement directly connected to the tightness of your grip on the cue? One time the great Buddy Hall told me "Alfie quit letting that cue flop around in your hand. Grip down on it." Then, another great, Eddie Taylor said to hold your cue "Like you were holding a baby bird." I watch another great, Earl Strickland grip his cue with just his thumb and first finger, the same way the late Harold Worst did when I saw him in the sixties. Both of those guys hit the cue ball with such dynamics that they could make the cue ball actually turn around in the middle of the table. Nothing confuses me as much about the game as the wrist action.
CJ, help your old buddy.
Keep it nice. Alfie

 

[CJ Wiley]

To play at a high level you MUST feel the cue ball in your hand and/or fingers.

I tried your "hammer" principal and mashed the crap out of my finger.

Seriously, though. Isn't your wrist movement directly connected to the tightness of your grip on the cue? One time the great Buddy Hall told me "Alfie quit letting that cue flop around in your hand. Grip down on it." Then, another great, Eddie Taylor said to hold your cue "Like you were holding a baby bird." I watch another great, Earl Strickland grip his cue with just his thumb and first finger, the same way the late Harold Worst did when I saw him in the sixties. Both of those guys hit the cue ball with such dynamics that they could make the cue ball actually turn around in the middle of the table. Nothing confuses me as much about the game as the wrist action.
CJ, help your old buddy.
Keep it nice. Alfie

Hey there Alfie, it's always nice to get a question from the best playing "rug dealer" in the world. Didn't Weldon teach you about the grip? He was the best "one handed" player and those that play "one handed" off the table certainly have to know how the wrists and fingers operate the pool cue.

We all hold the cue slightly unique, in our own personalized style. We all get the sensitivity and touch from different parts of our hands and fingers. I show a very specific way to find yours in my newest DVD, however, the main thing is to detect what part of your hand/fingers gets the feedback from the cue ball. To play at a high level you MUST feel the cue ball in your hand and/or fingers.

Some players need to hold the cue very delicately to get this sensitivity, and others like Earl and I hold it more firmly. I use a hammer and have someone see how they hold the hammer and when they drive some nails to feel what part of their hand/fingers feel the feedback of the nail. Then, try to apply the same principal to their pool cue and how they receive the feedback from the cue ball. It works for everyone that I've personally shown and when we get together, Alfie, I'll show you this and one other technique.

The wrists need to be free to work up and down (like the hammer motion), even though they do this subtly in the actual pool stroke. Put your hand on your hip and cock the tip up in front of your eyes a few times - feel what it's like for you. Then, with your tip in front your eyes, make your bridge and get down on the shot and put the tip in front of the cue ball (it will still be in front of your eyes).

Establishing a TIP/EYE relationship before you get down on the cue ball is important, but often overlooked. I think it will make sense that if you are going to have the tip in front of your eye sight while you are down on the cue ball, you should start out that way. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[nobcitypool]

CJ, I sent in payment via Paypal on the 12th, still no DVD. I confirmed the payment was sent just now with my Paypal account. Did you send it by Pony Express?

 

[CJ Wiley]

Pony Express

CJ, I sent in payment via Paypal on the 12th, still no DVD. I confirmed the payment was sent just now with my Paypal account. Did you send it by Pony Express?

Yes, I made a point to send yours "Pony Express". :thumbup:

 

[SpiderWebComm]

CJ... Can you post a 1min YouTube video of the hammer wrist action? I still don't entirely get it. You can prob record it on your phone if you have an android or iPhone.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Our wrists/hands/fingers are very powerful uncocking down

CJ... Can you post a 1min YouTube video of the hammer wrist action? I still don't entirely get it. You can prob record it on your phone if you have an android or iPhone.

It doesn't look any different than anything you've seen. since it's done in the hand and fingers it's very difficult to see. I just filmed my new DVD and have a section on it and I will do as you wish, just understand it's something you have to feel and experience, so try something first:

Try hitting an "almost straight in shot" with an open bridge. Draw that ball back three or four feet and after contact make sure your bridge does NOT come off your bridge hand.

If your cue pops up off your bridge hand you are cocking your wrists up (like using a hammer to hammer a nail UP).

If the cue doesn't pop up, but continues after you hit the cue ball with no pressure, but lacking "tension", you are not doing anything with your wrists, but they are, indeed "along for the ride."

The way I do it is after contact my cue is pressing down SLIGHLY on my bridge hand. The problem most people are having with this "hammer drill" is thinking it's a big motion with the hand. On the contrary.

IT IS NOT a big motion, as a matter of fact, like I stated above, you can barely see it at all. And even if you see it you have to know it's happening or it would be overlooked.

I do this technique and so do other road players and it's NEVER been detected, it just happens naturally if you allow it. It's the "release of the hand/fingers/wrist and it keeps the cue going on a straight line, slightly angled DOWN - with a slight amount of pressure applied to keep the follow through FIRM and controlled.

Our wrists/hands/fingers are very powerful uncocking down, like using an axe, hammer or golf club. Moving up, not so much and if you don't use your hands to generate speed, then this is not intended for you.

Virtually ALL tennis players, baseball pitchers, football quarterbacks use their hands to generate extra energy on their throws or strokes. Although it doesn't take much power to hit a 6 oz. pool ball, it does help to maximize the energy going into the cue ball, which is transfered into the object ball.

This helps you to also maximize precision and accuracy. Again, if you prefer to not use your finger and wrists then I would recommend putting this information on a "high shelf" in your mind. 'Your Game will be Your Teacher'

 

[Pay Up Sucker]

i think the key to cj stroke is acceleration on the follow through. Short back stroke but a controlled follow through. The follow through looks to me to be his most important part of his stroke. cocked grip but everything is in his follow through..... my opinion on his miserak video.

 

[backplaying]

dont worry CJ, there are only about 10 people in the world that discuss that verbage, we unfortunately have about 8 of them here on AZ lol

The funny part is how these same people think anyone that played at a high level can't teach anyone else how to play. As Patrick said in another post to a beginner, you need to get a instructor and not just a player that plays good. Is there any video of Patrick, nopool and the rest of these people who are the only ones that can teach someone how to play pool? I would really like to see these guys play with the knowledge they have it would be something to behold I'm sure!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

backplaying:
As Patrick said in another post to a beginner, you need to get a instructor and not just a player that plays good.

Do you think a player who just plays good (but can't explain how) makes a good instructor?

...Patrick, nopool and the rest of these people who are the only ones that can teach someone how to play pool?

You seem to be arguing with things only you are saying. Who's winning?

pj
chgo

 

[Neil]

The funny part is how these same people think anyone that played at a high level can't teach anyone else how to play. As Patrick said in another post to a beginner, you need to get a instructor and not just a player that plays good. Is there any video of Patrick, nopool and the rest of these people who are the only ones that can teach someone how to play pool? I would really like to see these guys play with the knowledge they have it would be something to behold I'm sure!

Why do you make up things and then attribute them to others?