Any time you rely on the unknown subconscious your are into trouble. In pool you have to be 100% accurate in your assumptions / adjustments/ and decisions other wise you will be a friend to the "L" not the "W". In some games like one pocket you can hide a little if you do not like to shoot a shot certain way, but in all other games you miss you probably loose the game.
WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
Any time you rely on the unknown subconscious your are into trouble. In pool you have to be 100% accurate in your assumptions / adjustments/ and decisions other wise you will be a friend to the "L" not the "W". In some games like one pocket you can hide a little if you do not like to shoot a shot certain way, but in all other games you miss you probably loose the game.
Hi Joey,
I believe the CB 'deflection'/squirt is the 'heart' of the T.O.I. Without it there would be little margin for error & the collison induce throw could cause a mis. Also the bit of actual spin, that CJ does not consider, reduces or negates the normal outside spin that the cue ball picks up upon collison.
Best Regards,
Pay Up Sucker
Banned
I believe the subconscious can be programmed to make the correct decisions subconsciously 
Mr. Naji,
I think you under estimate your subconscious mind. Do you think your way from step to step when you walk? Do you think your way through putting your hand up to stop maybe a ball from hitting you in the face.
I've played very well using english since I was 13 years old & had no real knowledge of CB 'defelction'/ squirt. It was my subconscious mind that was making the aiming 'correction' for that. Knowledge can be a good thing, but wisdom is better. If you think you can make all of the complex calculations to execute a long english shot with just your brain, then more 'power' to you. For me, I will rely on my perception & my subconscious as I have for the last 46 years.
The human body, including the brain, along with the subconscious mind & their simbiotic relationship are truly amazing.
Good Luck to you on your journey in pool.
Regards,
Last edited:
There is a difference in what the brain do as an instinct (to protect, to love, hate, cry) and a man made game
The way i aim, i instantly know where to aim, no complex calculation there, and no subconscious involved. Take for example a long shot, if you shoot it with center ball two things you have to consider right away am i am going to stun or role , based on that you either offset your aim or aim at center of pocket and execute the shot, if your stroke failed such that it delivers stun instead of role you will miss. Similarly other factors, bottom line do you under cut, over cut, or shoot center of pocket.
I find over the years, the smaller the tip, the easier to judge aim since squirt is minimized, and it seems that at stun with english the squirt washes out the stun english induce throw.
I use house cues some times, and the adjustments i have to make at times is almost two balls width for extreme english that is really hard to judge.
The resulting "positive side effect," is the cue ball is also easier to control
That is correct. The only way I can consistently increase my margin of error (without equipment considerations) is either with spin or "throw/deflection". I must alter the ball off the "straight line" to accomplish this and I do it by "throwing" the cue ball slightly (which overcuts the object ball slightly).
Think of increasing the margin of error like a tennis player using topspin groundstrokes or a slice/American Twist serve. Or a golfer using a "fade" or a "draw" to increase the "landing area zone" of the golf fairway.
If they hit these shots "straight" there would be no increased "Zone" and they could not be as consistent in their accuracy. This concept is true in pool, however, some get confused because they think the object ball is the target. The Cue Ball is the primary target, which effects the secondary target (the object ball) which effects the resulting contact to the pocket.
When you hit the cue ball slightly "Inside" (TOI) it "throws" the cue ball slightly so that it overcuts the object ball. This allows you to aim at the closest part of the pocket and "throw" it to the center. If it doesn't "throw" it hits the part your aiming at and if it throws too much it goes in the furthest part of the pocket. Ideally you calibrate your shots to hit the center with the the confidence of an increased "margin of error."
The resulting "positive side effect," is the cue ball is also easier to control (there's less calculations) and holds more "true/reliable" angles. In addition, there's a "whole new world" of shots you can create using the TOI, and once you experience them we can talk about them specifically. I will make a video soon showing many possible shots using the T.O.I.(Touch of Inside) System.
Cj's center of the cue ball is offset a touch in side of the vertical axis of the cue ball. Your center of the cue ball is on the vertical axis of the cue ball. He is not pivoted or paralleled to the inside, his entire alignment is a touch inside lined up to the contact point he wants to hit. Now with this technique the contact point is kind of a reference for him because he just wants the cue ball to kind of bump/rebound/ ricochet/etc into the object ball throwing it to the pocket. With this technique, you do not have to be exactly on the object ball contact point to make the shot.He has a center cue ball it is just at a different spot than yours, so he would put English on the ball the same as you would.
I think he likes this technique also because of cue ball control, its very controllable and predictable. He doesn't seem to like the cue ball spinning off the object ball and hoping he lands good on the next shot. he want to control his destiny as much as possible and not rely on luck. This is how I read CJ
That is correct. The only way I can consistently increase my margin of error (without equipment considerations) is either with spin or "throw/deflection". I must alter the ball off the "straight line" to accomplish this and I do it by "throwing" the cue ball slightly (which overcuts the object ball slightly).
Think of increasing the margin of error like a tennis player using topspin groundstrokes or a slice/American Twist serve. Or a golfer using a "fade" or a "draw" to increase the "landing area zone" of the golf fairway.
If they hit these shots "straight" there would be no increased "Zone" and they could not be as consistent in their accuracy. This concept is true in pool, however, some get confused because they think the object ball is the target. The Cue Ball is the primary target, which effects the secondary target (the object ball) which effects the resulting contact to the pocket.
When you hit the cue ball slightly "Inside" (TOI) it "throws" the cue ball slightly so that it overcuts the object ball. This allows you to aim at the closest part of the pocket and "throw" it to the center. If it doesn't "throw" it hits the part your aiming at and if it throws too much it goes in the furthest part of the pocket. Ideally you calibrate your shots to hit the center with the the confidence of an increased "margin of error."
The resulting "positive side effect," is the cue ball is also easier to control (there's less calculations) and holds more "true/reliable" angles. In addition, there's a "whole new world" of shots you can create using the TOI, and once you experience them we can talk about them specifically. I will make a video soon showing many possible shots using the T.O.I.(Touch of Inside) System.
books like 'Inner Tennis' and 'Zen in the Art of Archery' describe ways to train
This is a true statement. I trained myself to do this through extensive martial arts training, Neuro Linguistic Programming, and Meditation.
I once defeated a Nationally Ranked Player (Roger Griffis) 17 games in a row in the finals of a tournament and didn't remember anything. This happened numerous times in gambling matches and tournament play.
The ZONE or "Dead Stroke" as it's commonly known in pool is something that can be learned and practiced. I have played many players that fell into this "trance," and played "over their head" for hours at a time.
These players, for the most part "stumbled" on this state, however, books like 'Inner Tennis' and 'Zen in the Art of Archery' describe ways to train yourself to achieve this more regularly. I also know effective techniques to achieve this state of "becoming one with your art." CJ Wiley 'The Game is the Teacher'
I believe the subconscious can be programmed to make the correct decisions subconsciously
This is a true statement. I trained myself to do this through extensive martial arts training, Neuro Linguistic Programming, and Meditation.
I once defeated a Nationally Ranked Player (Roger Griffis) 17 games in a row in the finals of a tournament and didn't remember anything. This happened numerous times in gambling matches and tournament play.
The ZONE or "Dead Stroke" as it's commonly known in pool is something that can be learned and practiced. I have played many players that fell into this "trance," and played "over their head" for hours at a time.
These players, for the most part "stumbled" on this state, however, books like 'Inner Tennis' and 'Zen in the Art of Archery' describe ways to train yourself to achieve this more regularly. I also know effective techniques to achieve this state of "becoming one with your art." CJ Wiley 'The Game is the Teacher'
It's said we only use up to 12% of our conscious mind (potential).
If this was true we would all be in BIG trouble driving on a busy highway, walking down steep elevations and/or using a sharp knife.
Someone can certainly increase their performance by training for conscious/subconscious unity. It's said we only use up to 12% of our conscious mind (potential). This may have increased or decreased though the recent years, however, it's still far less than even 20%.
If this was true we would all be in BIG trouble driving on a busy highway, walking down steep elevations and/or using a sharp knife.
Someone can certainly increase their performance by training for conscious/subconscious unity. It's said we only use up to 12% of our conscious mind (potential). This may have increased or decreased though the recent years, however, it's still far less than even 20%.
Just a passing comment as I wander through:
The real margin of error for any shot is a fixed physical thing dictated by the size of the ball and pocket, and can't be physically increased by a shooting technique. You can increase your accuracy and consistency, which will give the same result (fewer misses) but it's not quite the same thing.
Please carry on.
pj
chgo
mazimizing "margin of error," and creating zones is based on the deflection/spin
Yes, the whole system of mazimizing "margin of error," and creating zones is based on the deflection/spin. Without spin or deflection there can't be a perception of an increased "margin of error."
I made this example with tennis and golf in the above post. I've used table tennis, baseball pitching and even bowling for an example of this in other sports as well.
To increase perceived margin of error you must be able to alter the ball's "staight line" using deflection and/or spin. TOI creates both ways of achieving this outcome and creates visual zones{aiming points} in the pocket.
Yes, the whole system of mazimizing "margin of error," and creating zones is based on the deflection/spin. Without spin or deflection there can't be a perception of an increased "margin of error."
I made this example with tennis and golf in the above post. I've used table tennis, baseball pitching and even bowling for an example of this in other sports as well.
To increase perceived margin of error you must be able to alter the ball's "staight line" using deflection and/or spin. TOI creates both ways of achieving this outcome and creates visual zones{aiming points} in the pocket.
CJ -- I really wish you wouldn't use the word "throw" (even when you put it in quotation marks) when the correct term for what you are describing with your TOI/3-part-pocket technique is "squirt" or "cue-ball deflection." You have been doing this for months, and I know it has confused some people reading your posts. And it doesn't matter that neither you nor your road-player friends ever used the word "squirt" in this way in the past. As you spend more and more time teaching and making teaching videos, I think it is important to use correct terminology or terminology that will not be confusing.
"Throw" is an established term with a specific meaning in pool literature and in discussions on AzB for many years. Throw is an effect that results from friction when the CB contacts the OB, not when the cue stick strikes the CB. Throw is of two types -- cut-induced throw (sometimes called collision-induced throw) and spin-induced throw. It is not a synonym for cue-ball deflection or squirt. Here is a lot of information from Dr. Dave's web site about throw: http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html
Pay Up Sucker
Banned
Your way shows him using inside English, I did not say he is parallel. I believe he is slightly off the parallel line. We discussed his alignment method a while back.
if you had to hit a dart board for "your life" and you threw to the right every time
I agree, the pocket and/or balls can't be physically increased or decreased. When I say "perceived" it's intended to mean "mentally," and visually{with your mind's eye} connecting to a "zone." If the pocket and ball were the same size there would be NO possible margin of error as I'm representing.
You may consider if you had to hit a dart board for "your life" and you threw a few inches to your right every time. Would you aim at the center or the left side? I would rather aim at one side of the dart board and MAKE it go towards the center.
Just like a golf fairway isn't physically widened, however, using a "Fade," you can effectively aim at the left edge and "fade it into the center," or aim at the right edge and "draw it into the center."
Using a controlled "throw" or spin allows the same type increase, it's just confusing when thinking of the object ball in the equation. Imagine this done without the object ball and it becomes much easier to see the benefits of a zone.
This, in it's self is a very posive benefit, however, there's several others that are also positive "side effects," for those that master the TOI. And it's much easier to master hitting the Touch of Inside than a wide variety of shots. And while I would agree a "master player" must be able to perform any shot I"m convinced from my own experience it's best to rely on ONE MAIN SHOT......as a FOUNDATION for the rest of your Game. CJ Wiley 'The Game is the Teacher'
I agree, the pocket and/or balls can't be physically increased or decreased. When I say "perceived" it's intended to mean "mentally," and visually{with your mind's eye} connecting to a "zone." If the pocket and ball were the same size there would be NO possible margin of error as I'm representing.
You may consider if you had to hit a dart board for "your life" and you threw a few inches to your right every time. Would you aim at the center or the left side? I would rather aim at one side of the dart board and MAKE it go towards the center.
Just like a golf fairway isn't physically widened, however, using a "Fade," you can effectively aim at the left edge and "fade it into the center," or aim at the right edge and "draw it into the center."
Using a controlled "throw" or spin allows the same type increase, it's just confusing when thinking of the object ball in the equation. Imagine this done without the object ball and it becomes much easier to see the benefits of a zone.
This, in it's self is a very posive benefit, however, there's several others that are also positive "side effects," for those that master the TOI. And it's much easier to master hitting the Touch of Inside than a wide variety of shots. And while I would agree a "master player" must be able to perform any shot I"m convinced from my own experience it's best to rely on ONE MAIN SHOT......as a FOUNDATION for the rest of your Game. CJ Wiley 'The Game is the Teacher'
Last edited:
When you're not getting the "fuller" feeling, then you aren't doing something correct
It's not parallel because the outcome is deflection/throw, not spin (even though it does spin slightly) I'm aligning the TOI to either the center or edge of the object ball.
If I used true center it would aligned for the center of the pocket, however, I'm aligning a "Touch" to the inside so I'm hitting the object ball fuller....then "throwing" it into the center/left/right (depending on how much I accelerate). This give {me} a "feel" for the pocket like nothing else I've ever experienced.
When you're not getting the "fuller" feeling, then you aren't doing something correctly. The more you accelerate the better in most cases. This system does NOT allow you to be tentative with your shots.
It's not parallel because the outcome is deflection/throw, not spin (even though it does spin slightly) I'm aligning the TOI to either the center or edge of the object ball.
If I used true center it would aligned for the center of the pocket, however, I'm aligning a "Touch" to the inside so I'm hitting the object ball fuller....then "throwing" it into the center/left/right (depending on how much I accelerate). This give {me} a "feel" for the pocket like nothing else I've ever experienced.
When you're not getting the "fuller" feeling, then you aren't doing something correctly. The more you accelerate the better in most cases. This system does NOT allow you to be tentative with your shots.
Pay Up Sucker
Banned
The number 3 picture is closest to being correct but you have gone a bit to far inside of the vertical axis of the cue ball. Now my opinion on how this is done goes like this, take your #3 picture that's parallel, Now just move your tip towards the vertical axis of the cue ball a bit but not moving the butt of the cue. That would be the alignment for this touch of inside technique.
edit: cj posted at the same time or a few seconds before
take your #3 picture that's parallel, Now just move your tip towards the vertical axis of the cue ball a bit but not moving the butt of the cue. This way his center of the the cue ball is offset slightly and not parallel and he works off his slightly inside center cue ball position and can use any english he wants also.
Last edited:
The stroke and the contact MUST be crisp and firm.
Yes, this is correct. I think this picture came up before and I didn't look at it correctly. This "cue line" would be pointing straight at the same point (of the object ball) on a "straight in" shot.
If this was a straight in shot I'd be cuing to the inside, however I'd be aiming at the center of the object ball. This example is on a straight in shot, however, I've stated many times I don't do this on a straight in or I'd deflect this example to the left of the pocket slighly.
Even though (FYI) when my stroke is at it's purest I can hit either side on a staight in shot by cuing the ball slightly inside (just a hair). This is VERY accurate when you use an accelerating stroke. If you don't like to accelerate DO NOT use this technique. If you like to "slow roll" balls you had better not try thowing balls in. The stroke and the contact MUST be crisp and firm.
I just went back and changed #1279 in the first sentence. The tip needed to be moved slightly to the right (towards the CB center).
Yes, this is correct. I think this picture came up before and I didn't look at it correctly. This "cue line" would be pointing straight at the same point (of the object ball) on a "straight in" shot.
If this was a straight in shot I'd be cuing to the inside, however I'd be aiming at the center of the object ball. This example is on a straight in shot, however, I've stated many times I don't do this on a straight in or I'd deflect this example to the left of the pocket slighly.
Even though (FYI) when my stroke is at it's purest I can hit either side on a staight in shot by cuing the ball slightly inside (just a hair). This is VERY accurate when you use an accelerating stroke. If you don't like to accelerate DO NOT use this technique. If you like to "slow roll" balls you had better not try thowing balls in. The stroke and the contact MUST be crisp and firm.
I just went back and changed #1279 in the first sentence. The tip needed to be moved slightly to the right (towards the CB center).
Last edited: