WWYD 9 Ball Dec22

[DeadStick]

Since you've got a heavy measles ball, cue whitey about 1:30. With allot of cue ball speed, (aim to the right of the 4 ball contact point) thats because your extreme swing speed, will push the cue ball to the contact point, the speed/squirting cue ball, forces your overcut to the correct contact point on the 4 ball then. Cue ball will come 4 rails.... short/long/long/short and land on the head rail with NO chance of being hooked, plus you'll be Close to your 5 ball.
You must have a straight follow thru, this shot is not easy for a new player, likely not probable yet.

I miscued, I meant 1:30 cueing sorry. 10:20 am edit.

Just curious about this but with a lot of shots speed has a big say in where and when the CB curves. In the last example if you're trying to go 4 rails to the 5 then there's no way the CB hooks to the short rail as shown.
How, or does, virtual pool rectify that?

Ok, so looking at the high-right and hard shot: I made at least 20 attempts in Virtual Pool, and none of them got on the 5 properly in 3 (or 4) rails. Too soft (still a very hard shot) and the spin kills the speed off the 3rd rail and it comes up short. Much harder than that, and the CB hooks and never gets to the bottom long rail. In short, highly variable results. The video below has some of the representative attempts.

I also set the shot up on my table (9 ft Centennial, Simonis 860, new Superspeed rails), and the medium-high firm shot in my first post above was easy and gave automatic shape each time. Then I spent about 15 minutes trying the high-right and hard shot, and never got good on the 5 except by flukey luck. The results were nearly identical to VP, except I couldn't hit it hard enough to get the crazy high hook shot. (Note that the CB is only about 3.5" from the rail, which limits bridge length and therefore power considerably.) Hitting it HARD, I mean my very best stroke at 1:30 right at the miscue limit), resulted in the 3-railer coming up short just like most of the attempts in VP. I should note that I also missed about 1/3rd of these high-right hard attempts due to how much power I was trying to apply and trying to account for squirt with an elevated butt.

 

[Black-Balled]

Ok

. I should note that I also missed about 1/3rd of these high-right hard attempts due to how much power I was trying to apply and trying to account for squirt with an elevated butt.

Which is full circle back to...where's the 3!!??

 

[DeadStick]

Which is full circle back to...where's the 3!!??

I'm not understanding you. This is a shot from the 4 to the 5.

 

[Black-Balled]

I'm not understanding you. This is a shot from the 4 to the 5.

Poor shape on the 4 is the problem!

 

[WobblyStroke]

Ok, so looking at the high-right and hard shot: I made at least 20 attempts in Virtual Pool, and none of them got on the 5 properly in 3 (or 4) rails. Too soft (still a very hard shot) and the spin kills the speed off the 3rd rail and it comes up short. Much harder than that, and the CB hooks and never gets to the bottom long rail. In short, highly variable results. The video below has some of the representative attempts.

I also set the shot up on my table (9 ft Centennial, Simonis 860, new Superspeed rails), and the medium-high firm shot in my first post above was easy and gave automatic shape each time. Then I spent about 15 minutes trying the high-right and hard shot, and never got good on the 5 except by flukey luck. The results were nearly identical to VP, except I couldn't hit it hard enough to get the crazy high hook shot. (Note that the CB is only about 3.5" from the rail, which limits bridge length and therefore power considerably.) Hitting it HARD, I mean my very best stroke at 1:30 right at the miscue limit), resulted in the 3-railer coming up short just like most of the attempts in VP. I should note that I also missed about 1/3rd of these high-right hard attempts due to how much power I was trying to apply and trying to account for squirt with an elevated butt.

Golf clap for your wonderful contributions to this discussion bud.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Then I spent about 15 minutes trying the high-right and hard shot, and never got good on the 5 except by flukey luck. The results were nearly identical to VP, ...

Thanks for all the VP testing. Did you try with tracking turned on? I use that to find the best spin/speed to use on shots.

I think the 3- or 4-railer might be possible with sticky cloth, but that's hard to test. I think there might be a way to increase rail friction in VP.

 

[DeadStick]

Since you have Virtual Pool running, how is right follow?

Here's a good way to look at speed effects of the high-right shot. I turned tracking on, then adjusted the speed of the shot. Pretty interesting that there is no good speed for this shot using high-right:

 

[DeadStick]

Thanks for all the VP testing. Did you try with tracking turned on? I use that to find the best spin/speed to use on shots.

Of course! Yes, I made a video with tracking on which shows the speed effects the best, see above.

I think the 3- or 4-railer might be possible with sticky cloth, but that's hard to test. I think there might be a way to increase rail friction in VP.

Here are my table settings, which I find match my table the closest:

Changing them would require quitting the match, changing the room (which is only place you can adjust table settings), then setting up the balls manually (since loading a saved arrangement also re-loads the table settings in use. Gonna have to punt on this for today.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

I don't know if this cheating but I went to my table to try before answering. After several attempts with little success I realized this WWYD lead me down a familiar and disastrous trail...thinking aggressive. The easy solution is shoot directly at the 4 ball, directly to the short rail, long rail, long rail just past the side pocket, and finally to the short rail. Let the cue ball just go forward to the short rail. A very easy safe.

By the way, this was an excellent WWYD. Thanks for making me think.

 

[DeadStick]

I don't know if this cheating but I went to my table to try before answering. After several attempts with little success I realized this WWYD lead me down a familiar and disastrous trail...thinking aggressive. The easy solution is shoot directly at the 4 ball, directly to the short rail, long rail, long rail just past the side pocket, and finally to the short rail. Let the cue ball just go forward to the short rail. A very easy safe.

By the way, this was an excellent WWYD. Thanks for making me think.

Did you try the medium-high firm shot? It was pretty easy for me, and the shape on the 5 leads to natural shape on the 6.

I would never, ever play safe in that situation - not with that easily makable 4 ball, and the difficulty of the safe (it requires a firm stroke with stun-follow to the rail, so pretty tough to get the CB up against the rail). And here is the result of the "nearly perfect" speed safe:

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Did you try the medium-high firm shot? It was pretty easy for me, and the shape on the 5 leads to natural shape on the 6.

I would never, ever play safe in that situation - not with that easily makable 4 ball, and the difficulty of the safe (it requires a firm stroke with stun-follow to the rail, so pretty tough to get the CB up against the rail). And here is the result of the "nearly perfect" speed safe:

View attachment 734196

I will try your medium/high shot...there is a pretty good window to get on the 5.
In my example the 3 rail was closer to the side pocket and the 4 ball ended above the 5.

 

[jasonlaus]

Did you try the medium-high firm shot? It was pretty easy for me, and the shape on the 5 leads to natural shape on the 6.

I would never, ever play safe in that situation - not with that easily makable 4 ball, and the difficulty of the safe (it requires a firm stroke with stun-follow to the rail, so pretty tough to get the CB up against the rail). And here is the result of the "nearly perfect" speed safe:

View attachment 734196

Where did the 4 end up?

Pretty sure the 4 ball directly in front of the pocket is not a good safe

 

[iusedtoberich]

I shot it a bunch of times, edited to a 4min video, no fluff. The only shot that was reliable IMO was high outside, firm, and it hooks to about the diamond before the side pocket. Then play the 5 ball up and down table to get to the 6. It's impossible to go 3 rails forward and short to the 5. 2 rails draw runs into the 9. The bank is fairly easy and works, but CB ends up straight on the 5, or behind the 6/7. 3 rails forward to the other side of the 5 actually worked, but too risky IMO, must hit it perfect. I kept all my misses in, which were only a small handful. So this was real life how a banger can get on this ball without practice.

Trying to go one rail super hard causes the CB and OB both to jump the table.

I had to turn the sound off, as there was talking in the background, but these shots were all hit quite firmly.

 

[jasonlaus]

I will try your medium/high shot...there is a pretty good window to get on the 5.
In my example the 3 rail was closer to the side pocket and the 4 ball ended above the 5.

He didn't make the 4 - he played it to directly in front of the pocket next to the 5, I can't think of a worse safe other than the same shot but giving up ball in hand

 

[DeadStick]

In my example the 3 rail was closer to the side pocket and the 4 ball ended above the 5.

We must have had slightly different ball positions.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... The bank is fairly easy and works, but CB ends up straight on the 5, or behind the 6/7. ...

The bank looks like it takes the least power. Maybe add a little right or follow and try to hit the 6/7 or at least get closer to the 5?

 

[Island Drive]

High speed videos show that this does not happen unless the cue ball is light.

For sure.... but the action/reaction of the measle ball feels/plays heavier than my Aramith obj. ball set.

The collision of the two balls, when cueing outside pushing Whitey in to the contact point, for sure causes the forward cue ball path to become lateral for a split secong, as overspin keeps on, because the cue ball is now coming across the face of the obj. ball as it goes forward. I just have a hard time, when two objects collide that the one coming into the other object immediately goes forward when the ball moving forward is NOT hit/Full/directly into the face of an object ball. I just have learned long ago that the EXACT SAME contact point on an object ball, as it's struck harder & harder, the phenolic obj ball overcuts more and more.

 

[DeadStick]

Where did the 4 end up?

Pretty sure the 4 ball directly in front of the pocket is not a good safe

It ended up exactly where you see it. That was my point - it’s not a good safe opportunity.

 

[Island Drive]

Did you try the medium-high firm shot? It was pretty easy for me, and the shape on the 5 leads to natural shape on the 6.

I would never, ever play safe in that situation - not with that easily makable 4 ball, and the difficulty of the safe (it requires a firm stroke with stun-follow to the rail, so pretty tough to get the CB up against the rail). And here is the result of the "nearly perfect" speed safe:

View attachment 734196

In this pic, the cue ball is hitting waaay to close to the pocket, not the shot at hand in the OP.

 

[DeadStick]

In this pic, the cue ball is hitting waaay to close to the pocket, not the shot at hand in the OP.

That’s my best attempt at the safe shot described by another poster, as per my description. It’s not a good option in my opinion.