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Oppose WPA curtailing athlete's freedom to choose which event they can play globally..
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Yapp banned from WPA tournament?
- Thread starter kling&allen
- Start date
www.change.org
there's good things and there's bad things. lets not forget that the thread topic is about yapp, sharik and the other singapore players being subjected to collective punishment just because they're from a country where someone arranged an english billiards tournament that wasn't sanctioned by the WPA. that has nothing to do with MR but it's fked up on so many levels.
but i agree that emily's letter was both long winded and negative. MR should take the high road and emphasize the economic opportunities and freedom of choice.
I think if the WPA really enforces a ban of players, MR and their WNT is done, or will at least lose many of the best players.
People here talk a lot about the big price money MR is offering for the players, without realizing how heavily funded some of the top pros are.
Just to put it in perspective:
Governmental funding for Cuesports in Germany in 2022: around 265 000 € (286 000 $)
Governmental funding for Cuesports in Austria in 2022: around 402 000 € (434 000 $)
These funds are Pool, Snooker and 3-Cushion combined, but since neither Germany nor Austria has some notable Snooker or 3-Cushion pros, most of these funds land in the pockets of the national Pool federations.
So if a player is banned from the WPA, it is banned from the EPBF, banned from their national federation and has no access to funding.
The rest of the story is quite an easy calculation, if you add up the MR 2 year prize money of Filler, Albin, He and Lechner, take taxes, their travel costs etc. in account and compare it to the numbers above.
I can´t provide similar numbers for the Dutch, Polish or Spanish players, but I guess it is the same story for them.
People here talk a lot about the big price money MR is offering for the players, without realizing how heavily funded some of the top pros are.
Just to put it in perspective:
Governmental funding for Cuesports in Germany in 2022: around 265 000 € (286 000 $)
Governmental funding for Cuesports in Austria in 2022: around 402 000 € (434 000 $)
These funds are Pool, Snooker and 3-Cushion combined, but since neither Germany nor Austria has some notable Snooker or 3-Cushion pros, most of these funds land in the pockets of the national Pool federations.
So if a player is banned from the WPA, it is banned from the EPBF, banned from their national federation and has no access to funding.
The rest of the story is quite an easy calculation, if you add up the MR 2 year prize money of Filler, Albin, He and Lechner, take taxes, their travel costs etc. in account and compare it to the numbers above.
I can´t provide similar numbers for the Dutch, Polish or Spanish players, but I guess it is the same story for them.
Possibly so, however it would be very surprising if Matchroom hadn't anticipated this scenario and have some kind of plan ready.
Lets not forget they have already done this once in the Darts world (if you're not familiar read about BDO vs PDC, the latter being Barry Hearn's newer organisation that now runs the entire professional game, with huge prize money).
Bingo! You just hit the nail on the head!
Thus, why are they considered the Billiard CONGRESS of America, the governing body of North American pool? They should change their name to Billiard Members of America or Billiard Industry Members of America. That would be the logical thing to do.
Everyone is chanting no one needs the WPA. Well, does pool need the BCA to exist in USA? I don't think so. Let them be an industry organization and work on marketing to social shooters, leagues, and recreational players.
Once again, I reiterate that all of the back-and-forth organizational messaging in print and virtually online is not good for the sport. The communication between all parties involved should be behind closed doors. It does nobody any good for uninformed railbirds, partially informed railbirds, pool enthusiasts, and non-professional pool players to chime in with untoward comments.
Interestingly, the commentary here on AzBilliards Discussion Forum about this matter is first class and a breath of fresh air compared to Facebook.
The organizations seem to be holding court in public. Not very professional, in my opinion, and actually kind of underhanded when using social media as a platform.
Interestingly, the commentary here on AzBilliards Discussion Forum about this matter is first class and a breath of fresh air compared to Facebook.
The organizations seem to be holding court in public. Not very professional, in my opinion, and actually kind of underhanded when using social media as a platform.
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And, once again, poorly punctuated.
I wish Barry Hearn was still in charge of pool. He tells it like it is and leaves the table with everyone's respect intact, even the opposition. He knows how to make things happen with class!
Baby come back. Any kind of fool could see there was something in everything about you.
And now this: Petition: Oppose WPA Curtailing Athlete's Freedom . . .
A little premature. The WPA just put out a press release to clarify that they will be taking the issue to their General Assembly and nothing will happen before then. Then based on whatever decisions are made at the General Assembly, the players will be given notice on those decisions and reasonable time to adhere to the rules.
I think this was to clarify what Ishuan said in the podcast about tabling the subject at the General Assembly. Tableing something means putting it aside for now. I think he meant bringing it to the table as opposed to tableing it. I watched the podcast and immediately thought that he worded it wrong without realizing it.
That’s an excellent breakdown and corresponds to the players who have voiced an opinion so far. I assume Shaw gets no money from the WPA.
Perhaps the WPA will do something smart at their upcoming meeting. The did fix things after they stupidly banned Fedor and there was an uproar (from handful of people who pay attention to such things).
I think Emily’s comments about “amateurs” refer to the fact that the WPA (WCBS) board are unpaid part-time volunteers, with little to no business experience, who struggle when faced with complex situations. We have seen this over the last few years with the mishandling of Thorpe’s drug suspension, the Russia ban, and now the Singapore ban and follow-up podcast interview.
So far as I know, no player gets money directly from the WPA. A small detail but important.
Yes, good point and I should have been more clear that the money comes from the national federations. I assume that money would go away without the cloaking of Olympic authority via the WPA.
It’s hard to tell from public documents, but the WPA does not have much money itself and spends most of it on its WADA drug testing program.
Exactly. It is a power play. And a thinly veiled one at that.
Why does everyone want to government involvement in the pool industry? Everything government gets their slimy fingers into goes to shit. Government oversight does nothing but squelch competition. Not to mention the fact I don't want taxpayer money going to anything beyond what the constitution allows. Pipe dream I know.
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I dont believe for a minute they are unpaid. Why won't they release financial info? Isn't that required for a "Non profit" organization?
WADA rules state beta blockers are banned in competition. Mario He did not compete in the Mosconi Cup, because he is on blood pressure medicine on the prohibited in game substance list. He failed WADA substance test.
As an in competition prohibited use vs all time prohibited use, was Mario He properly informed of the WADA protocols?
Can anyone in the WCBS clearly state the time window in days before a WADA test to determine in competition use versus non competition use?
The problem with the WADA rules posted on the WPA website is a translation of English. The WPA is not being inclusive to its members with different language backgrounds in terms of providing equitable access to the rules and agreements.
At one time not too long ago the annual dues payment from each WPA continental confederation was $10k. I believe that at least one confederation of the six plead poverty and was allowed to pay less. That total is a small fraction of the support given to some national federations by their governments according to info above.
The WNT is really at the beginning of building tour and brand which means there is an audience they are targeting that has no knowledge of the best players in the world. If every player from a country with a government funded federation boycotted matchroom, you’d still be left with some great players to a build a brand around.
At this time I don’t think any player in pool, or even any collection of players, has much leverage. The top players would be who the WNT say they are because they are broadcasting on bigger platforms while the competition is on facebook or YouTube. Similarly, in the early days of the UFC many of the top fighters were in Pride but that didn’t matter to the average fan in North America.
Not saying that it wouldn’t be a set back, but they don’t have nearly that much power.
You'd be surprised.
I was on the receiving end of a similar kind of ban. It's all about the federations retaining a monopoly on the sport. Now, it usually doesn't matter if the particular sub-genre of pool is completely neglected by the national federation, to the point of never holding a tournament. They want that under their banner. Now sometimes they'll be "reasonable" enough to sanction a tournament of one of these "forgotten sub genres", as long as the enthusiasts do all the funding all the work and all the publicity, and the federation gets all the credit and any Goverment funds. Well so what, you may ask? Why not hold an unsanctioned tournament? I'm sorry my friend, the federation will ban all people who've been involved in any way, for any amount of time they deem appropriate. Also, if you are an up-and-coming player, you'll destroy every chance you ever have of being backed in any way, even after your ban. You can run as many tables as you want, you'll never make the national team...This is not written down anywhere, but it's what is practised. Sometimes they'll flatly reject any tournament being held in a certain sub-genre. Usually it's because the person(s) in charge personally dislikes it, and is therefore able to block any tournament being held, ever.
Usually in Europe, the federations get some sort of Goverment backing, and they're desperate to retain it. Any alternative to their complete control of the sport is not tolerated for fear of having to compete for funds. I may be biased on this point, but I've never met a pool/billiards federation employee that wasn't a totally corrupt jackass. They crave the cushiness of a job like this, and know how to take full advantage and do the least amount of work physically possible, while going on fully funded "fact finding" trips that tend to be enourmously expensive for some reason. They're every bit as corrupt as the FIFA officials, though they have much less money and power, obviously. Somehow that doesn't seem to dull their sense of personal importance.
Oh, and additionally, due to the enourmous amount of unchecked power these officials have (within the small sport, not in the real world), there has been a number of "Weinstein" like incidents that remain unreported. If you are a somewhat attractive girl with talent in a cue sport in Europe, I wish you luck. Hopefully one of the officials doesn't take an interest in you...I know one girl who was traumatized this way.
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